Orange cancellation procedure

Hi all,
My history began almost 2 month ago. I have decided to connect to
Orange Home Max. My broadband worked just for 2 days then I have
started to get "PPP server down".
After one month of unsuccessfully conversation with Orange support I
have decided to cancel my account.
They Cancel it and after 10 days they tagged my line free.
I thought that I am free and my problem finished. But..
I have got BT bill with the "Cancellation Fee" £70.

I was really surprised with it. Unfortunately that is not all. My
phone stopped to work. I called to BT and told them I am not going to
pay this fee because I did not cancel it. And I want my line working.
They said that I should pay 70 and 140 to connect me back.
Before I get everything clear for me I have decided to cancel Direct
Debit in my Bank.

Now my new broadband from O2 on its way. And I am wondering will they
able to connect me with the canceled BT line.

Actually, I have just arrived to UK and from the very beginning have
such problem I do not know a lot of the life here.
Probably expert can give me advice on this situation.

Vaso wrote:
> Hi all,
> My history began almost 2 month ago. I have decided to connect to
> Orange Home Max. My broadband worked just for 2 days then I have
> started to get "PPP server down".
> After one month of unsuccessfully conversation with Orange support I
> have decided to cancel my account.
> They Cancel it and after 10 days they tagged my line free.
> I thought that I am free and my problem finished. But..
> I have got BT bill with the "Cancellation Fee" £70.
>
> I was really surprised with it. Unfortunately that is not all. My
> phone stopped to work. I called to BT and told them I am not going to
> pay this fee because I did not cancel it. And I want my line working.
> They said that I should pay 70 and 140 to connect me back.
> Before I get everything clear for me I have decided to cancel Direct
> Debit in my Bank.
>
> Now my new broadband from O2 on its way. And I am wondering will they
> able to connect me with the canceled BT line.
>
> Actually, I have just arrived to UK and from the very beginning have
> such problem I do not know a lot of the life here.
> Probably expert can give me advice on this situation.


Who cancelled your BT PSTN line ?

If you have a bill from BT for £70, that implies BT believe you had a rental
contract with BT. In which case, somebody must have told BT to cancel the
line. The £70 fee would, I guess, be the balance of the minimum rental
period.

Having established who cancelled the BT line, there are two courses of
action:

If it wasn't you who cancelled the BT line, then start complaining, you
should not be charged either the £70 or £140 fees. You can go either
through BT's complaints department (may be quicker to write to the
chairman's office) or through the relevant consumer bodies. If it were
Orange who cancelled your line incorrectly, then you may have to sue Orange
through the small claims court to recover the £70+£140 (small claims court
isn't difficult, and does not permit use of lawyers, so it does not cost
much).

If it was you who cancelled the BT line (even if mistaken in doing so), then
nothing to be done, its the reality of confusing telephone/internet
provision in the UK, set, in part by the regulatory body OfCom.



I expect the O2 service will require the BT line to be working, so it will
need reconnecting.



- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

I was connected to Orange Home Max broadband. In this package Orange
pays for the BT line.
That means that they canceled my BT line
and connected it to Orange instead BT.

Now as I canceled Orange stoped my Line and BT ask 140 for reconection
+ 70 for Cancelation.

I am really confused.


On 8 Jan, 14:24, "Nigel Cliffe" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Vaso wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > My history began almost 2 month ago. I have decided to connect to
> > Orange Home Max. My broadband worked just for 2 days then I have
> > started to get "PPP server down".
> > After one month of unsuccessfully conversation with Orange support I
> > have decided to cancel my account.
> > They Cancel it and after 10 days they tagged my line free.
> > I thought that I am free and my problem finished. But..
> > I have got BT bill with the "Cancellation Fee" £70.
>
> > I was really surprised with it. Unfortunately that is not all. My
> > phone stopped to work. I called to BT and told them I am not going to
> > pay this fee because I did not cancel it. And I want my line working.
> > They said that I should pay 70 and 140 to connect me back.
> > Before I get everything clear for me I have decided to cancel Direct
> > Debit in my Bank.
>
> > Now my new broadband from O2 on its way. And I am wondering will they
> > able to connect me with the canceled BT line.
>
> > Actually, I have just arrived to UK and from the very beginning have
> > such problem I do not know a lot of the life here.
> > Probably expert can give me advice on this situation.
>
> Who cancelled your BT PSTN line ?
>
> If you have a bill from BT for £70, that implies BT believe you had a rental
> contract with BT. *In which case, somebody must have told BT to cancel the
> line. *The £70 fee would, I guess, be the balance of the minimum rental
> period.
>
> Having established who cancelled the BT line, there are two courses of
> action:
>
> If it wasn't you who cancelled the BT line, then start complaining, you
> should not be charged either the £70 or £140 fees. *You can go either
> through BT's complaints department (may be quicker to write to the
> chairman's office) or through the relevant consumer bodies. *If it were
> Orange who cancelled your line incorrectly, then you may have to sue Orange
> through the small claims court to recover the £70+£140 *(small claims court
> isn't difficult, and does not permit use of lawyers, so it does not cost
> much).
>
> If it was you who cancelled the BT line (even if mistaken in doing so), then
> nothing to be done, its the reality of confusing telephone/internet
> provision in the UK, set, in part by the regulatory body OfCom.
>
> I expect the O2 service will require the BT line to be working, so it will
> need reconnecting.
>
> - Nigel
>
> --
> Nigel Cliffe,
> Webmaster athttp://www.2mm.org.uk/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:52:32 UTC, Vaso <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I was connected to Orange Home Max broadband. In this package Orange
> pays for the BT line.
> That means that they canceled my BT line
> and connected it to Orange instead BT.
>
> Now as I canceled Orange stoped my Line and BT ask 140 for reconection
> + 70 for Cancelation.

Presumably:

1) The line was originally a BT one
2) You moved to Orange broadband, including phone, thereby cancelling
your contract with BT
3) The Orange stuff never worked properly
4) You moved back to BT

2) triggered the 70 pounds
4) triggered the 140 pounds

Sounds reasonable, on BT's part. You might have a case against Orange
for reclaiming your costs.
--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

Thanks for your answer.
My question is. Has anybody this expirience before?
Or probably hear about stuff like mine?

Thanks

On 8 Jan, 15:32, "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:52:32 UTC, Vaso <v.chig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I was connected to Orange Home Max broadband. In this package Orange
> > pays for the BT line.
> > That means that they canceled my BT line
> > and connected it to Orange instead BT.
>
> > Now as I canceled Orange stoped my Line and BT ask 140 for reconection
> > + 70 for Cancelation.
>
> Presumably:
>
> 1) The line was originally a BT one
> 2) You moved to Orange broadband, including phone, thereby cancelling
> your contract with BT
> 3) The Orange stuff never worked properly
> 4) You moved back to BT
>
> 2) triggered the 70 pounds
> 4) triggered the 140 pounds
>
> Sounds reasonable, on BT's part. You might have a case against Orange
> for reclaiming your costs.
> --
> [ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
> to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
> Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
> euthanasia recommended. ]

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:56:11 UTC, Vaso <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

Lots of times. It's all valid and in line with the BT contract. It's
Orange who are at fault...if they'd provided a proper servuce, you
wouldn't have a bill for 140 pounds for reconnection to BT, as you
wouldn't need to reconnect to BT.

Orange presumably didn't tell you about the fact that BT would charge
you a cancellation fee when you moved to Orange...but they don't have
to. It was your responsibility to check your original BT contract.


> Thanks for your answer.
> My question is. Has anybody this expirience before?
> Or probably hear about stuff like mine?
>
> Thanks
>
> On 8 Jan, 15:32, "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:52:32 UTC, Vaso <v.chig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I was connected to Orange Home Max broadband. In this package Orange
> > > pays for the BT line.
> > > That means that they canceled my BT line
> > > and connected it to Orange instead BT.
> >
> > > Now as I canceled Orange stoped my Line and BT ask 140 for reconection
> > > + 70 for Cancelation.
> >
> > Presumably:
> >
> > 1) The line was originally a BT one
> > 2) You moved to Orange broadband, including phone, thereby cancelling
> > your contract with BT
> > 3) The Orange stuff never worked properly
> > 4) You moved back to BT
> >
> > 2) triggered the 70 pounds
> > 4) triggered the 140 pounds
> >
> > Sounds reasonable, on BT's part. You might have a case against Orange
> > for reclaiming your costs.
> > --
> > [ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
> > to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
> > Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
> > euthanasia recommended. ]
>


--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

Bob,
Thanks for your answer.

If your hear about problem like this a lot of time could you please
tell me how do this issue usualy solve.
What do you think I can do now and are there any chance to save money
and connect back to BT.

Thanks


On 8 Jan, 16:06, "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:56:11 UTC, Vaso <v.chig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Lots of times. It's all valid and in line with the BT contract. It's
> Orange who are at fault...if they'd provided a proper servuce, you
> wouldn't have a bill for 140 pounds for reconnection to BT, as you
> wouldn't need to reconnect to BT.
>
> Orange presumably didn't tell you about the fact that BT would charge
> you a cancellation fee when you moved to Orange...but they don't have
> to. It was your responsibility to check your original BT contract.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Thanks for your answer.
> > My question is. Has anybody this expirience before?
> > Or probably hear about stuff like mine?
>
> > Thanks
>
> > On 8 Jan, 15:32, "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:52:32 UTC, Vaso <v.chig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I was connected to Orange Home Max broadband. In this package Orange
> > > > pays for the BT line.
> > > > That means that they canceled my BT line
> > > > and connected it to Orange instead BT.
>
> > > > Now as I canceled Orange stoped my Line and BT ask 140 for reconection
> > > > + 70 for Cancelation.
>
> > > Presumably:
>
> > > 1) The line was originally a BT one
> > > 2) You moved to Orange broadband, including phone, thereby cancelling
> > > your contract with BT
> > > 3) The Orange stuff never worked properly
> > > 4) You moved back to BT
>
> > > 2) triggered the 70 pounds
> > > 4) triggered the 140 pounds
>
> > > Sounds reasonable, on BT's part. You might have a case against Orange
> > > for reclaiming your costs.
burkhch


> > > --
> > > [ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
> > > to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
> > > Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
> > > euthanasia recommended. ]
>
> --
> [ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
> to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
> Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
> euthanasia recommended. ]- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:15:16 UTC, Vaso <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

If the situation is as I described, then BT are within their rights to
charge you both sums.

I guess you *might* try claiming the reconnection fee back from Orange,
although it might be a hard figfht. The 70 pound cancellation fee is
more problematical since you'd have paid that anyway if you'd stayed
with Orange.

> If your hear about problem like this a lot of time could you please
> tell me how do this issue usualy solve.
> What do you think I can do now and are there any chance to save money
> and connect back to BT.
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On 8 Jan, 16:06, "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 15:56:11 UTC, Vaso <v.chig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Lots of times. It's all valid and in line with the BT contract. It's
> > Orange who are at fault...if they'd provided a proper servuce, you
> > wouldn't have a bill for 140 pounds for reconnection to BT, as you
> > wouldn't need to reconnect to BT.
> >
> > Orange presumably didn't tell you about the fact that BT would charge
> > you a cancellation fee when you moved to Orange...but they don't have
> > to. It was your responsibility to check your original BT contract.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for your answer.
> > > My question is. Has anybody this expirience before?
> > > Or probably hear about stuff like mine?
> >
> > > Thanks
> >
> > > On 8 Jan, 15:32, "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:52:32 UTC, Vaso <v.chig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I was connected to Orange Home Max broadband. In this package Orange
> > > > > pays for the BT line.
> > > > > That means that they canceled my BT line
> > > > > and connected it to Orange instead BT.
> >
> > > > > Now as I canceled Orange stoped my Line and BT ask 140 for reconection
> > > > > + 70 for Cancelation.
> >
> > > > Presumably:
> >
> > > > 1) The line was originally a BT one
> > > > 2) You moved to Orange broadband, including phone, thereby cancelling
> > > > your contract with BT
> > > > 3) The Orange stuff never worked properly
> > > > 4) You moved back to BT
> >
> > > > 2) triggered the 70 pounds
> > > > 4) triggered the 140 pounds
> >
> > > > Sounds reasonable, on BT's part. You might have a case against Orange
> > > > for reclaiming your costs.
> burkhch
>
>
> > > > --
> > > > [ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
> > > > to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
> > > > Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
> > > > euthanasia recommended. ]
> >
> > --
> > [ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
> > to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
> > Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
> > euthanasia recommended. ]- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>


--
[ 7'ism - a condition by which the sufferer experiences an inability
to give concise answers, express reasoned argument or opinion.
Usually accompanied by silly noises and gestures - incurable, early
euthanasia recommended. ]

Bob Eager wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 16:15:16 UTC, Vaso <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> If the situation is as I described, then BT are within their rights to
> charge you both sums.
>
> I guess you *might* try claiming the reconnection fee back from
> Orange, although it might be a hard figfht. The 70 pound cancellation
> fee is more problematical since you'd have paid that anyway if you'd
> stayed with Orange.

I think there may be a claim of £140 from Orange for failing to provide a
service; they accepted the contract then failed to provide service, so you
have a case to not be out of pocket due to them breaching their contract.
It depends on the exact nature of the cancellation of the BB service, but
that is where I would start.
The £70 cancellation charge is less likely to be refunded, for the reasons
Bob outlined earlier (though did that £70 come direct from BT in relation to
the swap from BT to Orange (therefore it is as Bob outlined), or was it
triggered by the cancellation of the Orange contract ?

Two main options;

The complaints procedure outlined at OfCom:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/
Essentially, one would start the complaint at Orange, they will probably
refuse to help (or not answer), one then goes the the ADR stage, and finally
one might get judgement in ones favour.
The OfCom process is longwinded, will take at least 3 or 4 months to
resolve. Until resolved, you will be paying the £70+£140.


Raise a small claims court case against Orange for the £140 and £70 for
breach of contract; you may win it. Start by sending a recorded delivery
letter to Orange demanding the money to cover your losses due to them
failing to meet their contract, and in the letter, make clear they have two
weeks to settle. Then issue small claims forms.





regards,

- Nigel



--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

In article <f460e4db-da36-4083-921d-2f073c768974
@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
> Hi all,
> My history began almost 2 month ago. I have decided to connect to
> Orange Home Max. My broadband worked just for 2 days then I have
> started to get "PPP server down".
> After one month of unsuccessfully conversation with Orange support I
> have decided to cancel my account.
> They Cancel it and after 10 days they tagged my line free.
> I thought that I am free and my problem finished. But..
> I have got BT bill with the "Cancellation Fee" £70.

Orange home max includes the BT rental, if you were still in contract
with BT this is their termination fee, it's nothing to do with Orange.

> Now my new broadband from O2 on its way. And I am wondering will they
> able to connect me with the canceled BT line.

If the line is not active, no they won't.
--
Regards
Jon