omnidirectional antenna using 4 biquads

Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:26:54 -0800 (PST), (E-Mail Removed) wrote in
<bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-(E-Mail Removed)>:

>Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
>rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
>decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
>http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
>the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
>an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
>disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).

What would be the point?

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On Feb 2, 11:15 pm, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:26:54 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote in
> <bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-65f69c959...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
> >rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
> >decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
> >http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
> >the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
> >an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
> >disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).
>
> What would be the point?
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Like I already stated, high gain without a squished donut, i.e.
compared to a colinear.

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:57:24 -0800 (PST), (E-Mail Removed) wrote in
<3ade6810-a747-4c41-938d-(E-Mail Removed)>:

>On Feb 2, 11:15 pm, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:26:54 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote in
>> <bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-65f69c959...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
>> >rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
>> >decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
>> >http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
>> >the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
>> >an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
>> >disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).
>>
>> What would be the point?

>Like I already stated, high gain without a squished donut, i.e.
>compared to a colinear.

What makes you think it won't be a squished donut, albeit a crude one
(due to uneven horizontal gain pattern)? The coverage of a biquad is
more like 45° than 90°.

--
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<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
> rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
> decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
> http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
> the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
> an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
> disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).

The other problem I see is if you use some sort of combiner or phasing
harness the loss associated with such a device would be more or equal to the
gain of any one antenna.

Adair

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> On Feb 2, 11:15 pm, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:26:54 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote in
>> <bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-65f69c959...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>>> Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
>>> rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
>>> decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
>>> http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
>>> the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would
>>> get an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
>>> disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).
>>
>> What would be the point?
>>
>> --
>> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
>> <http://Wireless.wikia.com> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
>> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi> Wi-Fi How To:
>> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
>> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:
>> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
>
> Like I already stated, high gain without a squished donut, i.e.
> compared to a colinear.

huh - just a random google search yielded this typical construction ?
http://www.larsen-b.com/Article/201.html

On Feb 3, 7:57 am, "Adair Winter" <ada...@swbell.net> wrote:
> <m...@sushi.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> > Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
> > rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
> > decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
> >http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
> > the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
> > an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
> > disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).
>
> The other problem I see is if you use some sort of combiner or phasing
> harness the loss associated with such a device would be more or equal to the
> gain of any one antenna.
>
> Adair

No, the loss is very close to 6dB. Gain should be around 14db prior to
loss. What might make a difference is the aperture.

On Feb 3, 12:24 am, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:57:24 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote in
> <3ade6810-a747-4c41-938d-9740eeb77...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >On Feb 2, 11:15 pm, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:26:54 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote in
> >> <bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-65f69c959...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >> >Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
> >> >rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
> >> >decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
> >> >http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
> >> >the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
> >> >an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
> >> >disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).
>
> >> What would be the point?
> >Like I already stated, high gain without a squished donut, i.e.
> >compared to a colinear.
>
> What makes you think it won't be a squished donut, albeit a crude one
> (due to uneven horizontal gain pattern)? The coverage of a biquad is
> more like 45° than 90°.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
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The vertical response should be that of the biquad itself.

On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:50:53 -0800 (PST), (E-Mail Removed) wrote in
<4845970a-e4f2-4524-97a7-(E-Mail Removed)>:

>On Feb 3, 12:24 am, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 23:57:24 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote in
>> <3ade6810-a747-4c41-938d-9740eeb77...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >On Feb 2, 11:15 pm, John Navas <spamfilt...@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 22:26:54 -0800 (PST), m...@sushi.com wrote in
>> >> <bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-65f69c959...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> >> >Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
>> >> >rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
>> >> >decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
>> >> >http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
>> >> >the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
>> >> >an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
>> >> >disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).
>>
>> >> What would be the point?
>> >Like I already stated, high gain without a squished donut, i.e.
>> >compared to a colinear.
>>
>> What makes you think it won't be a squished donut, albeit a crude one
>> (due to uneven horizontal gain pattern)? The coverage of a biquad is
>> more like 45° than 90°.

>The vertical response should be that of the biquad itself.

Which will be pretty much a squished donut, albeit a crude one.

--
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John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
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On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:49:59 -0800 (PST), (E-Mail Removed) wrote in
<07716fc1-144a-4ae9-b393-(E-Mail Removed)>:

>On Feb 3, 7:57 am, "Adair Winter" <ada...@swbell.net> wrote:
>> <m...@sushi.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:bb019663-7b79-41c6-a2a5-(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> > Dumb question perhaps, but here goes. If you arrange 4 biquads in a
>> > rectangular formation and used a power combiner, would you get a
>> > decent omnidirectional antenna? Looking at the biquad pattern
>> >http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad...ad_azimuth.jpg
>> > the antenna is good for about +-45 degrees. Seems to me you would get
>> > an omnidirectional antenna without too squished of a donut. The
>> > disadvantage is the combiner loss of 6db (ideal).
>>
>> The other problem I see is if you use some sort of combiner or phasing
>> harness the loss associated with such a device would be more or equal to the
>> gain of any one antenna.

>No, the loss is very close to 6dB. Gain should be around 14db prior to
>loss. What might make a difference is the aperture.

Gain will probably only be 10-12 dB at best, with holes of much worse
gain. A standard hi-gain omni is a much better way to go.

--
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John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
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