Odd problem with Caller ID & router. One for Kraftee?

Hi

I've just installed and setup my new ZyXEL 2602HW router. It's excellent. I wanted
the VOIP that it supports, but I've yet to set that up.

There is one very peculiar problem though. When I get an incoming call over the
normal BT land line the Caller ID info has stopped showing up on one of my phones.

I've got a DECT phone setup with 4 handsets, and an ordinary wired phone. They are
both plugged into the master socket via a splitter. The router is plugged into a hard
wired extension run from the main socket, this extension was fitted by a BT engineer
who was kind enough to fit it when he ran in the new line that replaced the ISDN one.
This all happened a couple of years ago.

Now, the phones all work, but caller ID only shows up on the DECT phones not on the
wired phone. Initially I though that it must have gone wrong, but I needed to turn
off the router last evening, and lo and behold caller ID started working on that
phone again. Putting the router back on stops it working. It worked fine with my old
router (a Linksys WAG54G), but seems to have problems with the new one. I tried a new
filter on the phones too, just in case.

Can anyone (Kraftee?) through any light on this? It's not the end of the world, but
I'd be interested in getting to the bottom of it.

TIA

--

Andrew Sayers

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Andrew Sayers
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>Hi
>
>I've just installed and setup my new ZyXEL 2602HW router. It's
>excellent. I wanted
>the VOIP that it supports, but I've yet to set that up.
>
>There is one very peculiar problem though. When I get an incoming call over the
>normal BT land line the Caller ID info has stopped showing up on one of
>my phones.
>
>I've got a DECT phone setup with 4 handsets, and an ordinary wired
>phone. They are
>both plugged into the master socket via a splitter. The router is
>plugged into a hard
>wired extension run from the main socket, this extension was fitted by
>a BT engineer
>who was kind enough to fit it when he ran in the new line that replaced
>the ISDN one.
>This all happened a couple of years ago.
>
>Now, the phones all work, but caller ID only shows up on the DECT
>phones not on the
>wired phone. Initially I though that it must have gone wrong, but I
>needed to turn
>off the router last evening, and lo and behold caller ID started
>working on that
>phone again. Putting the router back on stops it working. It worked
>fine with my old
>router (a Linksys WAG54G), but seems to have problems with the new one.
>I tried a new
>filter on the phones too, just in case.
>
>Can anyone (Kraftee?) through any light on this? It's not the end of
>the world, but
>I'd be interested in getting to the bottom of it.
>
>TIA
>
Almost certainly this is a consequence of the effect the new router has
on the frequency response of your line at caller ID frequencies.

Caller ID (AFAIK) is transmitted as a 1200baud bitstream between rings.
The signal will have frequency components at or above the top end of the
voice spectrum.

The router acts as a high pass filter that ensures it doesn't materially
affect the low frequencies used by voice, but it will have an effect a
bit further up the frequency scale. [The standard ADSL filter is a low
pass designed to stop the ADSL frequencies reaching the phone, and to
ensure that the phone doesn't load those frequencies down by appearing
as a low impedance to them]

I suspect the new router has a bigger effect at the Caller ID
frequencies than the old one, and that the DECT base station (more
modern?) has better sensitivity to the Caller-ID frequencies than the
wired phone.

With the Linksys router the amplitude at caller ID frequencies is high
enough for the wired phone to work, with the ZyXEL the line attenuation
is such that the DECT works but the wired doesn't.

Hope that helps.
--
Peter R Cook

Peter R Cook wrote:
> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Andrew
> Sayers
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>> Hi
>>
>> I've just installed and setup my new ZyXEL 2602HW router. It's
>> excellent. I wanted
>> the VOIP that it supports, but I've yet to set that up.
>>
>> There is one very peculiar problem though. When I get an incoming
>> call over the normal BT land line the Caller ID info has stopped
>> showing up on one of my phones.
>>
>> I've got a DECT phone setup with 4 handsets, and an ordinary wired
>> phone. They are
>> both plugged into the master socket via a splitter. The router is
>> plugged into a hard
>> wired extension run from the main socket, this extension was fitted
>> by a BT engineer
>> who was kind enough to fit it when he ran in the new line that
>> replaced the ISDN one.
>> This all happened a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Now, the phones all work, but caller ID only shows up on the DECT
>> phones not on the
>> wired phone. Initially I though that it must have gone wrong, but I
>> needed to turn
>> off the router last evening, and lo and behold caller ID started
>> working on that
>> phone again. Putting the router back on stops it working. It worked
>> fine with my old
>> router (a Linksys WAG54G), but seems to have problems with the new
>> one. I tried a new
>> filter on the phones too, just in case.
>>
>> Can anyone (Kraftee?) through any light on this? It's not the end
>> of
>> the world, but
>> I'd be interested in getting to the bottom of it.
>>
>> TIA
>>
> Almost certainly this is a consequence of the effect the new router
> has on the frequency response of your line at caller ID frequencies.
>
> Caller ID (AFAIK) is transmitted as a 1200baud bitstream between
> rings. The signal will have frequency components at or above the top
> end of the voice spectrum.
>
> The router acts as a high pass filter that ensures it doesn't
> materially affect the low frequencies used by voice, but it will
> have
> an effect a bit further up the frequency scale. [The standard ADSL
> filter is a low pass designed to stop the ADSL frequencies reaching
> the phone, and to ensure that the phone doesn't load those
> frequencies down by appearing as a low impedance to them]
>
> I suspect the new router has a bigger effect at the Caller ID
> frequencies than the old one, and that the DECT base station (more
> modern?) has better sensitivity to the Caller-ID frequencies than
> the
> wired phone.
>
> With the Linksys router the amplitude at caller ID frequencies is
> high
> enough for the wired phone to work, with the ZyXEL the line
> attenuation is such that the DECT works but the wired doesn't.
>
> Hope that helps.

I would have to agree in most of the above but you could try changing
the filter/s as some do work better than others & may (repeat may)
have something to do with your problem....

Another thing which isn't clear is whether you have a filter between
the router & the line, this could make the difference & here we hit
the old saw about the DSL port being unfiltered/pass through whatever,
but it can have an effect...

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Peter R Cook
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>Almost certainly this is a consequence of the effect the new router has
>on the frequency response of your line at caller ID frequencies.
>
>Caller ID (AFAIK) is transmitted as a 1200baud bitstream between rings.
>The signal will have frequency components at or above the top end of
>the voice spectrum.

No, Caller ID data on BT lines is transmitted before the first ring
using V.23 tones (i.e. 1300/2100Hz) - see SIN227.

The ADSL modem/router has no interest in anything below 20kHz and would
be expected to present a high impedance at audio frequencies.

--
Bob Evans

"Peter R Cook" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, Andrew Sayers
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>Hi
>>
>>I've just installed and setup my new ZyXEL 2602HW router. It's excellent.
>>I wanted
>>the VOIP that it supports, but I've yet to set that up.
>>
>>There is one very peculiar problem though. When I get an incoming call
>>over the
>>normal BT land line the Caller ID info has stopped showing up on one of my
>>phones.
>>
>>I've got a DECT phone setup with 4 handsets, and an ordinary wired phone.
>>They are
>>both plugged into the master socket via a splitter. The router is plugged
>>into a hard
>>wired extension run from the main socket, this extension was fitted by a
>>BT engineer
>>who was kind enough to fit it when he ran in the new line that replaced
>>the ISDN one.
>>This all happened a couple of years ago.
>>
>>Now, the phones all work, but caller ID only shows up on the DECT phones
>>not on the
>>wired phone. Initially I though that it must have gone wrong, but I needed
>>to turn
>>off the router last evening, and lo and behold caller ID started working
>>on that
>>phone again. Putting the router back on stops it working. It worked fine
>>with my old
>>router (a Linksys WAG54G), but seems to have problems with the new one. I
>>tried a new
>>filter on the phones too, just in case.
>>
>>Can anyone (Kraftee?) through any light on this? It's not the end of the
>>world, but
>>I'd be interested in getting to the bottom of it.
>>
>>TIA
>>
> Almost certainly this is a consequence of the effect the new router has on
> the frequency response of your line at caller ID frequencies.
>
> Caller ID (AFAIK) is transmitted as a 1200baud bitstream between rings.

UK caller display info is sent before the 1st burst of ringing
See http://www.ainslie.org.uk/callerid/cli_faq.htm#Q_6

"British Telecom developed their own standard, which wakes up the display
with a line reversal, then sends the data as CCITT V23 modem tones in a
format similar to MDMF."

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:01:15 +0000, Andrew Sayers wrote:

> Hi
>
> I've just installed and setup my new ZyXEL 2602HW router. It's excellent. I wanted
> the VOIP that it supports, but I've yet to set that up.
>
> There is one very peculiar problem though. When I get an incoming call over the
> normal BT land line the Caller ID info has stopped showing up on one of my phones.

Did you change your micro filter too? If yes, then that might be the cause
of your caller ID from showing up. I had this problem before when
I was on BT (using Excelsus), changed to non-branded micro filter bought
from local PC shop and that solved it.

"Andrew Sayers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi
>
> I've just installed and setup my new ZyXEL 2602HW router. It's excellent.
> I wanted
> the VOIP that it supports, but I've yet to set that up.
>
> There is one very peculiar problem though. When I get an incoming call
> over the
> normal BT land line the Caller ID info has stopped showing up on one of my
> phones.
>
>

How many things have you got hanging off the line altogether?

"R. Mark Clayton" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>"Andrew Sayers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> Hi
>>
>> I've just installed and setup my new ZyXEL 2602HW router. It's excellent.
>> I wanted
>> the VOIP that it supports, but I've yet to set that up.
>>
>> There is one very peculiar problem though. When I get an incoming call
>> over the
>> normal BT land line the Caller ID info has stopped showing up on one of my
>> phones.
>>
>>
>
>How many things have you got hanging off the line altogether?
>


Thank you to everyone who took the trouble to reply.

I've got it working now by the simple task of swapping the filter that was connected
to the router. Stupidly I'd completely disregarded that as a possibility until it was
pointed out in this thread. I'd a spare BT brand one, and using that on the router
line has cured the problem.


--

Andrew Sayers