Is it that obvious? WPA-PSK

I'm new to wifi-networking. Recently received my first laptop,
HPzv5255US with a Broadcom 802.11 B/G WLAN network adapter built in.

I couldn't find any info on which advanced G implementation this
adapter supports, other than a vague mention of Linksys "Speed
Booster", so I bought a WRT54gs (Linksys) router. This works pretty
fast -- perfmon shows transfer rates of up to ~345 KB/s. This seems
unnaturally fast for a 54Mb/s+ max transfer rate, but it's close to
the cap on my cable connection.

o Is this fast or slow compared to what should be attainable for
transfer rate?
o Will this Broadcom adapter take advantage of Dlink's "Airplus
ExtremeG" or Netgear's "108 SuperG"?
o Are these all puffery anyway? I do think that the "Speed Booster"
seems to crank

It was actually very simple to set up WPA-PSK as the encryption. But
it took forever -- directions said to enter a key, so I used a
strong-password type key, but it simply didn't work. No matter what I
tried, it would not connect. So, on a hunch, I tried a numerical key
(ex: 123987456). Instant success. I suppose a hex key might work
too? (ab123cd456)? Is this key supposed to be numeric or hex, or
should it work with alpha-numeric char's also?


My SWMBO brings her work laptop home sometimes too, so I bought a
PCMCIA card for her to match the Linksys router -- a WPC54gs notebook
adapter with SpeedBoost. This thing seems like a POS though. It
never connected at 54Mbp/s, topping out at 24?!? This when tested
from the same location where my notebook saw 48 or 54. Not to mention
the setup/connection utility that wouldn't connect at all. Then it
would. Then it wouldn't. Enabling the Windows utility, sometimes it
could make a connection, sometimes not. Sometimes it wouldn't even
recognize the card. Regardless of which method was set to make the
connection, when the laptop awoke from sleep the card virtually had to
be reinstalled to work again.... Sounds like a bad sample, but most
of the reviews I've read, for instance on Amazon, don't recommend this
card.

o Would anyone recommend a better, cheaper, working (even) card?
o Do any other brands work with the advanced features of the Linksys
router?


Thanks,

/ts

"Unnh" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm new to wifi-networking. Recently received my first laptop,
> HPzv5255US with a Broadcom 802.11 B/G WLAN network adapter built in.
>
> I couldn't find any info on which advanced G implementation this
> adapter supports, other than a vague mention of Linksys "Speed
> Booster", so I bought a WRT54gs (Linksys) router. This works pretty
> fast -- perfmon shows transfer rates of up to ~345 KB/s. This seems
> unnaturally fast for a 54Mb/s+ max transfer rate, but it's close to
> the cap on my cable connection.

345 KB/s = 2.76 Mb/s. This is well within even the capabilities of 11 Mbps
802.11b.

> o Is this fast or slow compared to what should be attainable for
> transfer rate?

It's not unusually high for cable data service, although it is probably too
high for DSL.

> o Will this Broadcom adapter take advantage of Dlink's "Airplus
> ExtremeG" or Netgear's "108 SuperG"?

These are proprietary speed enhancements. Most of them work only if all
devices on the WLAN have the same feature. At least one of them (I forget
which) allows standard (not enhanced) devices to coexist on the WLAN, albeit
at a standard speed. So, no the different speed enhancements are not
interoperable.

> o Are these all puffery anyway? I do think that the "Speed Booster"
> seems to crank

802.11b's 11 Mbps, 802.11g's 54 Mbps, and speed enhanced 108 Mbps speeds are
signalling speeds, not throughput. Doubling your signalling speed will not
necessarily double your throughput. Some of the speed enhancement
technologies use multiple channels (not just 2), and so interfere with other
devices on the ISM band (including your neighbors' WLANs).

> It was actually very simple to set up WPA-PSK as the encryption. But
> it took forever -- directions said to enter a key, so I used a
> strong-password type key, but it simply didn't work. No matter what I
> tried, it would not connect. So, on a hunch, I tried a numerical key
> (ex: 123987456). Instant success. I suppose a hex key might work
> too? (ab123cd456)? Is this key supposed to be numeric or hex, or
> should it work with alpha-numeric char's also?

Keys can be entered in as many as 3 ways, depending upon the manufacturer:
hexadecimal key, ASCII character key (each character stands for 2 hex
digits), or ASCII passphrase (the passphrase is algorithmically transformed
into a key, and does not have to be the same length as the key).

> My SWMBO brings her work laptop home sometimes too,

It's incorrect to precede SWMBO with "My."

> so I bought a
> PCMCIA card for her to match the Linksys router -- a WPC54gs notebook
> adapter with SpeedBoost. This thing seems like a POS though. It
> never connected at 54Mbp/s, topping out at 24?!? This when tested
> from the same location where my notebook saw 48 or 54. Not to mention
> the setup/connection utility that wouldn't connect at all. Then it
> would. Then it wouldn't. Enabling the Windows utility, sometimes it
> could make a connection, sometimes not. Sometimes it wouldn't even
> recognize the card. Regardless of which method was set to make the
> connection, when the laptop awoke from sleep the card virtually had to
> be reinstalled to work again.... Sounds like a bad sample, but most
> of the reviews I've read, for instance on Amazon, don't recommend this
> card.
>
> o Would anyone recommend a better, cheaper, working (even) card?
> o Do any other brands work with the advanced features of the Linksys
> router?

No

> Thanks,
>
> /ts

Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:54:03 GMT, "Ron Bandes" <RunderscoreBandes
@yah00.com> wrote:

>"Unnh" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> I'm new to wifi-networking. Recently received my first laptop,
>> HPzv5255US with a Broadcom 802.11 B/G WLAN network adapter built in.
>>
>> I couldn't find any info on which advanced G implementation this
>> adapter supports, other than a vague mention of Linksys "Speed
>> Booster", so I bought a WRT54gs (Linksys) router. This works pretty
>> fast -- perfmon shows transfer rates of up to ~345 KB/s. This seems
>> unnaturally fast for a 54Mb/s+ max transfer rate, but it's close to
>> the cap on my cable connection.
>
>345 KB/s = 2.76 Mb/s. This is well within even the capabilities of 11 Mbps
>802.11b.

Appreciate the reply. The conversion above is based on 8bits per
byte. Do wireless packets add some overhead also, like enveloping,
headers, etc?

>> o Is this fast or slow compared to what should be attainable for
>> transfer rate?
>
>It's not unusually high for cable data service, although it is probably too
>high for DSL.
>
>> o Will this Broadcom adapter take advantage of Dlink's "Airplus
>> ExtremeG" or Netgear's "108 SuperG"?

Comcast home cable svc. -- capped ~396KB/s; peaks up to ~416. Depends
on protocol and server and time of day and weather and martians, too.

>These are proprietary speed enhancements. Most of them work only if all
>devices on the WLAN have the same feature. At least one of them (I forget
>which) allows standard (not enhanced) devices to coexist on the WLAN, albeit
>at a standard speed. So, no the different speed enhancements are not
>interoperable.

Right, proprietary enhancements. Drat.

>> o Are these all puffery anyway? I do think that the "Speed Booster"
>> seems to crank
>
>802.11b's 11 Mbps, 802.11g's 54 Mbps, and speed enhanced 108 Mbps speeds are
>signalling speeds, not throughput. Doubling your signalling speed will not

Ever seen a speed comparison between these different proprietary
standards and their associated gear? I'd like to read some tete a
tete results from a reliable source!

>necessarily double your throughput. Some of the speed enhancement
>technologies use multiple channels (not just 2), and so interfere with other
>devices on the ISM band (including your neighbors' WLANs).

Only one SSID broadcast appears within my house other than my own
router's, "default". It's id'd by Netstumbler as a DLINK, and it's
set to default channel 6. So, if my AP is set on channel 11, for
instance, there should be no interference, hopefully, eh?

>> It was actually very simple to set up WPA-PSK as the encryption. But
>> it took forever -- directions said to enter a key, so I used a
>> strong-password type key, but it simply didn't work. No matter what I
>> tried, it would not connect. So, on a hunch, I tried a numerical key
>> (ex: 123987456). Instant success. I suppose a hex key might work
>> too? (ab123cd456)? Is this key supposed to be numeric or hex, or
>> should it work with alpha-numeric char's also?
>
>Keys can be entered in as many as 3 ways, depending upon the manufacturer:
>hexadecimal key, ASCII character key (each character stands for 2 hex
>digits), or ASCII passphrase (the passphrase is algorithmically transformed
>into a key, and does not have to be the same length as the key).

Above is interesting, esp given how much trouble it was to get
working, if it is -- Netstumbler shows the encryption as "WEP"...I
thought that WPA-PSK was working, as both ends are set to use it;
could this be an error of NS's?

>> My SWMBO brings her work laptop home sometimes too,
>
>It's incorrect to precede SWMBO with "My."

Here I might contend that my SWMBO is not the same as any-other's, nor
would you probably be found unconditionally obeying her, nor I your'n
(hey, I'm in the south) Besides, even tho this is Usenet, I might ask
on what authority would that be incorrect?

>> so I bought a
>> PCMCIA card for her to match the Linksys router -- a WPC54gs notebook
>> adapter with SpeedBoost. This thing seems like a POS though. It
>> never connected at 54Mbp/s, topping out at 24?!? This when tested
>> from the same location where my notebook saw 48 or 54. Not to mention
>> the setup/connection utility that wouldn't connect at all. Then it
>> would. Then it wouldn't. Enabling the Windows utility, sometimes it
>> could make a connection, sometimes not. Sometimes it wouldn't even
>> recognize the card. Regardless of which method was set to make the
>> connection, when the laptop awoke from sleep the card virtually had to
>> be reinstalled to work again.... Sounds like a bad sample, but most
>> of the reviews I've read, for instance on Amazon, don't recommend this
>> card.
>>
>> o Would anyone recommend a better, cheaper, working (even) card?
>> o Do any other brands work with the advanced features of the Linksys
>> router?
>
>No

There are no other 54G cards that work well, don't have poor quality
utilities and are perhaps less expensive than Linksys', eh, finest?

Thanks,

/ts

"Unnh" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 23:54:03 GMT, "Ron Bandes" <RunderscoreBandes
> @yah00.com> wrote:
>
> >"Unnh" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> >news(E-Mail Removed).. .
> >> I couldn't find any info on which advanced G implementation this
> >> adapter supports, other than a vague mention of Linksys "Speed
> >> Booster", so I bought a WRT54gs (Linksys) router. This works pretty
> >> fast -- perfmon shows transfer rates of up to ~345 KB/s. This seems
> >> unnaturally fast for a 54Mb/s+ max transfer rate, but it's close to
> >> the cap on my cable connection.
> >
> >345 KB/s = 2.76 Mb/s. This is well within even the capabilities of 11
Mbps
> >802.11b.
>
> Appreciate the reply. The conversion above is based on 8bits per
> byte. Do wireless packets add some overhead also, like enveloping,
> headers, etc?

Yes, absolutely. But overhead bytes such as packet headers should not be
included in throughput figures. I had assumed that your 345 KB/s was the
measure of a file tranfer. That would be throughput.

> >> o Are these all puffery anyway? I do think that the "Speed Booster"
> >> seems to crank
> >
> >802.11b's 11 Mbps, 802.11g's 54 Mbps, and speed enhanced 108 Mbps speeds
are
> >signalling speeds, not throughput. Doubling your signalling speed will
not
>
> Ever seen a speed comparison between these different proprietary
> standards and their associated gear? I'd like to read some tete a
> tete results from a reliable source!

Maybe someone else on the NG knows this.

> Only one SSID broadcast appears within my house other than my own
> router's, "default". It's id'd by Netstumbler as a DLINK, and it's
> set to default channel 6. So, if my AP is set on channel 11, for
> instance, there should be no interference, hopefully, eh?

Yes, channels 5 numbers apart are completely non-overlapping.

> -- Netstumbler shows the encryption as "WEP"...I
> thought that WPA-PSK was working, as both ends are set to use it;
> could this be an error of NS's?

Right. NetStumbler shows all encrypted APs as WEP, regardless of the actual
encryption.

> >> My SWMBO brings her work laptop home sometimes too,
> >
> >It's incorrect to precede SWMBO with "My."
>
> Here I might contend that my SWMBO is not the same as any-other's, nor
> would you probably be found unconditionally obeying her, nor I your'n
> (hey, I'm in the south) Besides, even tho this is Usenet, I might ask
> on what authority would that be incorrect?

Good point. I was just being grammatical. "My She who must be obeyed"
isn't.

> >>
> >> o Would anyone recommend a better, cheaper, working (even) card?
> >> o Do any other brands work with the advanced features of the Linksys
> >> router?
> >
> >No
>
> There are no other 54G cards that work well, don't have poor quality
> utilities and are perhaps less expensive than Linksys', eh, finest?

There are a variety of opinions on this NG. DLink seems to get low scores
for support. There are a number of posters unhappy with NetGear's support.
I saw a derogatory remark about Belkin, but they weren't specific about
their complaint. There are some lesser known brands that excite some people
like Senao, Zyxel, and Asus. The Linksys router is especially interesting
because of the Sveasoft firmware that replaces Linksys's firmware. It's
probably wise to follow the advice of Consumer's Reports which tells you
judge individual models, and not to trust in a brand (except for support).

Ron Bandes, CCNP, CTT+, etc.

If you set your router to use WPA-PSK (check the router's status page) then
you will only be able to connect to the router wirelessly with WPA-PSK. So,
if anything is reporting WEP, it's probably WPA-PSK.

As for the passphrase, (unlike WEP) WPA-PSK uses an agreed-upon method for
converting a passphrase into a key. Just about anything alphanumeric should
work. The passphrase is supposed to be long but easy to remember (unlike a
128-bit hex WEP key). It may be that the algorithm does not work well if
uncommon characters are used.

If you are using the WPC54G(S) on XP, do not install the utility from
Linksys. Use XP's built-in WZC service. To use WPA, you'll need to install
an update through Windows Update. However, if all of these have been
installed already, then it should be ready to go.

There's an occasional issue that crops up with WPA-PSK under WZC (the
connection is frequently lost) that can be remedied by adding a key to the
registry. With SP2 coming out this week, I hope that it will no longer be
necessary to edit the registry.

-Yves

PS. Checking the other wireless networks nearby, I find three named
"Wireless," "NETGEAR" and "default," respectively. You'll probably want to
give your router a different name (i.e. do not use the default) and make
sure to change the password for configuring the router.

"Unnh" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm new to wifi-networking. Recently received my first laptop,
> HPzv5255US with a Broadcom 802.11 B/G WLAN network adapter built in.
>
> I couldn't find any info on which advanced G implementation this
> adapter supports, other than a vague mention of Linksys "Speed
> Booster", so I bought a WRT54gs (Linksys) router. This works pretty
> fast -- perfmon shows transfer rates of up to ~345 KB/s. This seems
> unnaturally fast for a 54Mb/s+ max transfer rate, but it's close to
> the cap on my cable connection.
>
> o Is this fast or slow compared to what should be attainable for
> transfer rate?
> o Will this Broadcom adapter take advantage of Dlink's "Airplus
> ExtremeG" or Netgear's "108 SuperG"?
> o Are these all puffery anyway? I do think that the "Speed Booster"
> seems to crank
>
> It was actually very simple to set up WPA-PSK as the encryption. But
> it took forever -- directions said to enter a key, so I used a
> strong-password type key, but it simply didn't work. No matter what I
> tried, it would not connect. So, on a hunch, I tried a numerical key
> (ex: 123987456). Instant success. I suppose a hex key might work
> too? (ab123cd456)? Is this key supposed to be numeric or hex, or
> should it work with alpha-numeric char's also?
>
>
> My SWMBO brings her work laptop home sometimes too, so I bought a
> PCMCIA card for her to match the Linksys router -- a WPC54gs notebook
> adapter with SpeedBoost. This thing seems like a POS though. It
> never connected at 54Mbp/s, topping out at 24?!? This when tested
> from the same location where my notebook saw 48 or 54. Not to mention
> the setup/connection utility that wouldn't connect at all. Then it
> would. Then it wouldn't. Enabling the Windows utility, sometimes it
> could make a connection, sometimes not. Sometimes it wouldn't even
> recognize the card. Regardless of which method was set to make the
> connection, when the laptop awoke from sleep the card virtually had to
> be reinstalled to work again.... Sounds like a bad sample, but most
> of the reviews I've read, for instance on Amazon, don't recommend this
> card.
>
> o Would anyone recommend a better, cheaper, working (even) card?
> o Do any other brands work with the advanced features of the Linksys
> router?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> /ts
>

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 01:27:03 GMT, "Ron Bandes" <RunderscoreBandes
@yah00.com> wrote:

>> Ever seen a speed comparison between these different proprietary
>> standards and their associated gear? I'd like to read some tete a
>> tete results from a reliable source!

>Maybe someone else on the NG knows this.

You rang?

The reviewists at Tom's Networking actually run performance tests and
deliver sane numbers. See:
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sectio...le26-page1.php
for how they run the tests. There are 4 conditions for each test:
Location #1: AP and wireless client in same room,
approximately 6 feet apart.

Location #2: Client in same level room, approximately 30 feet
away from AP. Two sheetrock walls between AP and Client.

Condition #3: Client in lower level, approximately 40 feet
away from AP. One wood floor, no sheetrock ceiling, no walls
between AP and Client.

Condition #4: Client on same level, approximately 50 feet away
from AP. Three interior, one exterior wall between AP and Client.

Typical performance test results (for WRT54G) can be seen at:
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Review...-WRT54GS-8.php
A comparison of Afterburner and Super-G
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Review...WRT54GS-10.php
I'm not sure who's the winner in the channel bonding hype contest.

My rule of thumb is that you'll get about 60% of the connection speed.
So, if you connect at 11Mbits/sec with 802.11b, you'll get about
6Mbits/sec thruput. If you connect at 24Mbits/sec, you'll get about
15Mbits/sec thruput (assuming no interference or 802.11b radios
present).


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Unnh <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I couldn't find any info on which advanced G implementation this
> adapter supports, other than a vague mention of Linksys "Speed
> Booster", so I bought a WRT54gs (Linksys) router. This works pretty
> fast -- perfmon shows transfer rates of up to ~345 KB/s. This seems
> unnaturally fast for a 54Mb/s+ max transfer rate, but it's close to
> the cap on my cable connection.
>
> o Is this fast or slow compared to what should be attainable for
> transfer rate?

"Real world" maximum transfer rates are approximately 500KB/s for
802.11b and 2MB/s for 802.11g.

> There are a variety of opinions on this NG. DLink seems to get low scores
> for support. There are a number of posters unhappy with NetGear's support.
> I saw a derogatory remark about Belkin, but they weren't specific about
> their complaint.

There's also many people bitching about Linksys's support. I think all of
those companies's support sucks in one way or another. My Linksys BEFW11S4
"died" upon a bad firmware upgrade and I've had no trouble getting it
replaced (except it took two weeks: lucky my local vendor is cool and gave
me another one to use in the meantime), so that part of the support was OK,
but I've been unable to get my request for "static DHCP entries" to be
passed to someone who might understand what it is.
Luckily the ASUS WL-500g offers the feature.

> There are some lesser known brands that excite some people
> like Senao, Zyxel, and Asus.

Yes, I've been ranting about my new ASUS, but I must say I'm just surprised
to be so satisfied. Admittedly, I haven't had to deal with their
support yet.

> The Linksys router is especially interesting
> because of the Sveasoft firmware that replaces Linksys's firmware.

The custom firmwares for wrt54g are indeed interesting. But note that
several boes use the same hardware (plus or minus some "details" like
a parallel or USB port). The OpenWRT project is a "Linux for wrt54g"
project but it runs on the wl-500g as well as on several other routers.

I ended up getting the ASUS box rather than the Linksys one because the ASUS
has a USB connector so I can use it as a print server for my two printers
(and I do use a custom firmware for it as well, tho not from sveasoft).

IIRC Netgear also has a 54g box running Linux with third party
firmwares available.

Once you decide to use a custom firmware like OpenWRT, all those boxes are
basically interchangeable except for things like USB or RAM (the wrt54gs
has twice as much RAM and Flash capacity, for example).

> It's probably wise to follow the advice of Consumer's Reports which tells
> you judge individual models, and not to trust in a brand (except for
> support).

I'd also recommend to buy from a local vendor you know (even better if he
knows you). It's generally a bit more expensive, but when (not if: when)
things break you immediately get back your investment.


Stefan