NTL Wireless routing complexities

I have a problem that has exceeded my network topology knowledge.
I am a UK NTL (Cable) user, with an external modem (IN cable, OUT
Cat5)
I have an old Netgear AP 11 Mbit/s. No routing, no FW.
Connected to my modem is an old laptop, with a netgear PCMCIA, it
plays the router/firewall duties.
On the second floor I have set my AP to get 3th floor traffic nicely
down to my laptop, which then routes to NTL.
I have now decided to free the laptop and upgrade for speed. I want to
buy a 54Mbit Linksys router, but do not want to plug it in straight to
the NTL modem, because of range limitations to the 3rd floor from
modem location (ground floor).
So my idea was to plug in my AP to the modem (Problem 1, see below),
and put my new router on the 2nd floor (and a server on CAT5 to the
router).
I gathered I don't need more than 11Mb/s for the internet connection,
so it's all fine, and I will get 54Mbit/s to my server connected to my
new router on the 2nd floor
The Router will serve DHCP leases to my laptops, and route internet
traffic to the AP (problem 2)

So I see 2 problems
1) I will have no more PC connected to the NTL modem. I cannot
remember how the authentication is done. I am pretty sure it is not
through software, as I get a CAT5 cable out of the modem. So assuming
authentication is set by some means in the modem and is now fine,
would my AP broadcasting NTL traffic on its 11Mb/s network?
2) I assume my NTL IP address can change. How do I set my router to
route to a variable IP address?

I also assume the connection between the router and laptops will be
54Mbits even though it will be 11 to the AP, as the router doc says it
can do both simultaneously, or am I mistaken?

Thanks a lot!

"Raider" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
>I have a problem that has exceeded my network topology knowledge.
> I am a UK NTL (Cable) user, with an external modem (IN cable, OUT
> Cat5)
> I have an old Netgear AP 11 Mbit/s. No routing, no FW.
> Connected to my modem is an old laptop, with a netgear PCMCIA, it
> plays the router/firewall duties.
> On the second floor I have set my AP to get 3th floor traffic nicely
> down to my laptop, which then routes to NTL.
> I have now decided to free the laptop and upgrade for speed. I want to
> buy a 54Mbit Linksys router, but do not want to plug it in straight to
> the NTL modem, because of range limitations to the 3rd floor from
> modem location (ground floor).
> So my idea was to plug in my AP to the modem (Problem 1, see below),
> and put my new router on the 2nd floor (and a server on CAT5 to the
> router).
> I gathered I don't need more than 11Mb/s for the internet connection,
> so it's all fine, and I will get 54Mbit/s to my server connected to my
> new router on the 2nd floor
> The Router will serve DHCP leases to my laptops, and route internet
> traffic to the AP (problem 2)
>
> So I see 2 problems
> 1) I will have no more PC connected to the NTL modem. I cannot
> remember how the authentication is done. I am pretty sure it is not
> through software, as I get a CAT5 cable out of the modem. So assuming
> authentication is set by some means in the modem and is now fine,
> would my AP broadcasting NTL traffic on its 11Mb/s network?
> 2) I assume my NTL IP address can change. How do I set my router to
> route to a variable IP address?
>
> I also assume the connection between the router and laptops will be
> 54Mbits even though it will be 11 to the AP, as the router doc says it
> can do both simultaneously, or am I mistaken?
>
> Thanks a lot!

I assume that you have cat5 from the second floor down to the first floor at
the moment. Why not get a wireless router / modem and install it on the
second floor then use the cable going to the laptop atm, to connect the
router to the ntl point. All ISP configuration will be done on the router,
which can also be your DHCP server. Also, in the Netgear router, you can
select static or dynamic IP.



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"Raider" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> I have a problem that has exceeded my network topology knowledge.
> I am a UK NTL (Cable) user, with an external modem (IN cable, OUT
> Cat5)
> I have an old Netgear AP 11 Mbit/s. No routing, no FW.
> Connected to my modem is an old laptop, with a netgear PCMCIA, it
> plays the router/firewall duties.
> On the second floor I have set my AP to get 3th floor traffic nicely
> down to my laptop, which then routes to NTL.

How is the laptop connected to the AP?

> I have now decided to free the laptop and upgrade for speed. I want to
> buy a 54Mbit Linksys router, but do not want to plug it in straight to
> the NTL modem, because of range limitations to the 3rd floor from
> modem location (ground floor).

While it is theoretically possible to avoid an Ethernet cable running
between modem and router, it is the most practical solution. To make the
link wireless, you would need a pair of bridges (one by the router, one by
the modem). Your current AP may or may not be able to function as one of
them.

[snip]
> 1) I will have no more PC connected to the NTL modem. I cannot
> remember how the authentication is done. [...]

The cable modem's MAC address is your authentication.

> 2) I assume my NTL IP address can change. How do I set my router to
> route to a variable IP address?

The router's WAN interface should be configured by DHCP. The cable modem is
a bridge.

Alex

Guys, Thanks for your help

I don't have any CAT5 running except between modem and the laptop (3
feet long cable). THe laptop is on the ground floor and talks to the
AP on the second floor through a Netgear PCMCIA adapter. THen my
souped-up laptop that I work with and carry around the house, connects
to the AP, is routed to the old laptop, then routed to NTL by software
on the old laptop. That's my current situation.
Now remove old laptop and replace with old AP. And put the new Linksys
router on the second floor where the AP used to be. The old AP should
broadcast NTL traffic on its 11Mbits range, and hopefully the router
will pick it up. My old AP will be set to get DHCP ip info, in order
to accept the NTL IP. The new router will issue DHCP leases for its
clients (Hopefully the old AP is not going to get one from the router
instead of getting the lease from NTL?) But how do I set my router to
listen to 'whatever IP NTL sets'. With CAT5 routers, you could
describe the 2 physical interfaces and route through them, but with
wireless, not sure how to do that?? Then there is the issue of mixing
11 and 54Mbits on different networks? Is that alright?

"Alex Fraser" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> "Raider" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > I have a problem that has exceeded my network topology knowledge.
> > I am a UK NTL (Cable) user, with an external modem (IN cable, OUT
> > Cat5)
> > I have an old Netgear AP 11 Mbit/s. No routing, no FW.
> > Connected to my modem is an old laptop, with a netgear PCMCIA, it
> > plays the router/firewall duties.
> > On the second floor I have set my AP to get 3th floor traffic nicely
> > down to my laptop, which then routes to NTL.
>
> How is the laptop connected to the AP?
>
> > I have now decided to free the laptop and upgrade for speed. I want to
> > buy a 54Mbit Linksys router, but do not want to plug it in straight to
> > the NTL modem, because of range limitations to the 3rd floor from
> > modem location (ground floor).
>
> While it is theoretically possible to avoid an Ethernet cable running
> between modem and router, it is the most practical solution. To make the
> link wireless, you would need a pair of bridges (one by the router, one by
> the modem). Your current AP may or may not be able to function as one of
> them.
>
> [snip]
> > 1) I will have no more PC connected to the NTL modem. I cannot
> > remember how the authentication is done. [...]
>
> The cable modem's MAC address is your authentication.
>
> > 2) I assume my NTL IP address can change. How do I set my router to
> > route to a variable IP address?
>
> The router's WAN interface should be configured by DHCP. The cable modem is
> a bridge.
>
> Alex

"Raider" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> I don't have any CAT5 running except between modem and the laptop (3
> feet long cable). THe laptop is on the ground floor and talks to the
> AP on the second floor through a Netgear PCMCIA adapter. THen my
> souped-up laptop that I work with and carry around the house, connects
> to the AP, is routed to the old laptop, then routed to NTL by software
> on the old laptop. That's my current situation.
> Now remove old laptop and replace with old AP. And put the new Linksys
> router on the second floor where the AP used to be. The old AP should
> broadcast NTL traffic on its 11Mbits range, and hopefully the router
> will pick it up.

Sorry, but this won't work. Maybe it helps to see the problem if you
consider that the router is effectively no different to your laptop and AP
combined into a small box. What you are suggesting is like getting another
AP and attaching it to the modem, leaving the laptop's Ethernet port
(equivalent to the router's WAN port) unconnected.

Is there a problem getting a cable from where the cable modem and laptop are
now to where the AP is now?

Alex

The problem is I don't feel like pulling CAT5 all the way to the
second floor, that's the main reason why I got wireless equipment.

I understand that a router is what my old laptop is now. But what is
an AP equivalent to? As far as I understand, it bridges (wirelessly)
computers on the same network. So why can't it bridge my modem (seen
as a network interface wit IP address) and my new router?

"Alex Fraser" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> "Raider" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > I don't have any CAT5 running except between modem and the laptop (3
> > feet long cable). THe laptop is on the ground floor and talks to the
> > AP on the second floor through a Netgear PCMCIA adapter. THen my
> > souped-up laptop that I work with and carry around the house, connects
> > to the AP, is routed to the old laptop, then routed to NTL by software
> > on the old laptop. That's my current situation.
> > Now remove old laptop and replace with old AP. And put the new Linksys
> > router on the second floor where the AP used to be. The old AP should
> > broadcast NTL traffic on its 11Mbits range, and hopefully the router
> > will pick it up.
>
> Sorry, but this won't work. Maybe it helps to see the problem if you
> consider that the router is effectively no different to your laptop and AP
> combined into a small box. What you are suggesting is like getting another
> AP and attaching it to the modem, leaving the laptop's Ethernet port
> (equivalent to the router's WAN port) unconnected.
>
> Is there a problem getting a cable from where the cable modem and laptop are
> now to where the AP is now?
>
> Alex

"Raider" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) m...
> The problem is I don't feel like pulling CAT5 all the way to the
> second floor, that's the main reason why I got wireless equipment.
>
> I understand that a router is what my old laptop is now. But what is
> an AP equivalent to? As far as I understand, it bridges (wirelessly)
> computers on the same network. So why can't it bridge my modem (seen
> as a network interface wit IP address) and my new router?

As I said in my first post, the cable modem is a bridge. It will, in fact,
have at least one IP address, but for management only (just like an AP).

Domestic routers have at least (but normally exactly) two interfaces: WAN
and LAN, which must be attached to different networks, just like they are on
your laptop. In wireless routers, the WAN interface (in all routers I know
of) only has wired connectivity, just like your laptop. Your AP may be able
to "bridge [your] modem", but that wouldn't help - it would be bridging the
modem to the network that the router's LAN interface is on.

What you need to do, in theory, to avoid the cable is to use *two* wireless
bridges, one connected to the router's WAN port and the other to the modem,
creating a second wireless network.

Alex

I understand, and it is what I feared.
What about setting a static route to the AP?

"Alex Fraser" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> "Raider" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) m...
> > The problem is I don't feel like pulling CAT5 all the way to the
> > second floor, that's the main reason why I got wireless equipment.
> >
> > I understand that a router is what my old laptop is now. But what is
> > an AP equivalent to? As far as I understand, it bridges (wirelessly)
> > computers on the same network. So why can't it bridge my modem (seen
> > as a network interface wit IP address) and my new router?
>
> As I said in my first post, the cable modem is a bridge. It will, in fact,
> have at least one IP address, but for management only (just like an AP).
>
> Domestic routers have at least (but normally exactly) two interfaces: WAN
> and LAN, which must be attached to different networks, just like they are on
> your laptop. In wireless routers, the WAN interface (in all routers I know
> of) only has wired connectivity, just like your laptop. Your AP may be able
> to "bridge [your] modem", but that wouldn't help - it would be bridging the
> modem to the network that the router's LAN interface is on.
>
> What you need to do, in theory, to avoid the cable is to use *two* wireless
> bridges, one connected to the router's WAN port and the other to the modem,
> creating a second wireless network.
>
> Alex

"Raider" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> I understand, and it is what I feared.
> What about setting a static route to the AP?

As you said in your first post, the AP is not a router. Although I'm not
sure how you think a static route would help in any case.

Alex

(E-Mail Removed) (Raider) wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed) om:

> I have now decided to free the laptop and upgrade for speed. I
> want to buy a 54Mbit Linksys router, but do not want to plug it
> in straight to the NTL modem, because of range limitations to
> the 3rd floor from modem location (ground floor).
>

Have you checked there actually is a range limitation? You may be
trying to fix a non-existent problem.