NT Server questions and routers, etc.

We are a very small company using an NT4 server with five computers hooked
into the server. My knowledge of NT4 is limited at best (meaning I know
very little). I will try to explain this problem as best I can.

We have been accessing the internet using dialup from the client computers
and decided to switch to a broadband connection through a dish-network,
since cable or dsl is not available in our area. The installer came today
to try to install the connection to the dish. He tells me that he cannot
get our NT server and the router to play nice together. From what I get
from him (and it sounds like he has less network knowledge than I do) the
router and the server are both trying to hand out IP addresses to all the
clients which is causing a conflict and keeping the clients from accessing
both the internet and the server when the router is plugged into the
switch. He told me he tried to point the gateway of the NT server to the
router's IP address, but that didn't work and he is at a loss. He tells us
we need to get a new server. I'm thinking if he can't figure out how to
hook this server up, how's he going to be able to hook a newer server up?

Can anyone offer any explanation or solutions in simple terms that are
fairly easy to understand? I hope I'm explaining this well.

He also said that the NT server is at high security risk with a broadband
connection so I'm looking for solutions for this issue as well. Would a
software firewall be of any use?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, I hope this is the right NG to
post to. We really cannot afford to purchase all new equipment and
software at this time, so I'm hoping someone has an idea of what might
work. TIA.

Patty

Hi Patty, what are you IP configurations for the current NT DHCP server
and the addresses provided by your dish-network router?

-nm

You do not need a new server - you need a new installer, or a manual for the
router. If this is a common low end router (Linksys, Dlink, NetGear,
Belkin), you can probably get the manual online.

Assuming that your NT Server provides DHCP, this function must be turned off
on the router. The router must also be configured with a non-conflicting IP
address which is compatible with your existing IP addresses. And your
server must be set to use that IP as its default gateway and its primary
DNS. On the server, change your DHCP options to provide this IP as the
default gateway and DNS to your DHCP clients.

As with any broadband connection a firewall is necessary. The router may
have a built-in firewall, but you should consider individual firewalls on
each of your machines anyway.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

"Patty" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> We are a very small company using an NT4 server with five computers hooked
> into the server. My knowledge of NT4 is limited at best (meaning I know
> very little). I will try to explain this problem as best I can.
>
> We have been accessing the internet using dialup from the client computers
> and decided to switch to a broadband connection through a dish-network,
> since cable or dsl is not available in our area. The installer came today
> to try to install the connection to the dish. He tells me that he cannot
> get our NT server and the router to play nice together. From what I get
> from him (and it sounds like he has less network knowledge than I do) the
> router and the server are both trying to hand out IP addresses to all the
> clients which is causing a conflict and keeping the clients from accessing
> both the internet and the server when the router is plugged into the
> switch. He told me he tried to point the gateway of the NT server to the
> router's IP address, but that didn't work and he is at a loss. He tells
us
> we need to get a new server. I'm thinking if he can't figure out how to
> hook this server up, how's he going to be able to hook a newer server up?
>
> Can anyone offer any explanation or solutions in simple terms that are
> fairly easy to understand? I hope I'm explaining this well.
>
> He also said that the NT server is at high security risk with a broadband
> connection so I'm looking for solutions for this issue as well. Would a
> software firewall be of any use?
>
> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, I hope this is the right NG to
> post to. We really cannot afford to purchase all new equipment and
> software at this time, so I'm hoping someone has an idea of what might
> work. TIA.
>
> Patty

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:01:15 -0400, Doug Sherman [MVP] wrote:

> You do not need a new server - you need a new installer, or a manual for the
> router. If this is a common low end router (Linksys, Dlink, NetGear,
> Belkin), you can probably get the manual online.

I will check tomorrow which brand and model of router it is. I have a
Linksys on my home network (used to have a NetGear), so I have a little
idea about routers and configuring them.

> Assuming that your NT Server provides DHCP, this function must be turned off
> on the router. The router must also be configured with a non-conflicting IP
> address which is compatible with your existing IP addresses. And your
> server must be set to use that IP as its default gateway and its primary
> DNS. On the server, change your DHCP options to provide this IP as the
> default gateway and DNS to your DHCP clients.

He said that he tried disabling the DHCP on the router and it still would
not work. He tried setting the standard router IP address as the gateway
on the server, but it didn't work. How would I make the address
compatible? You mean if the IP addresses were something like 162.187.1.100
through 104, I should make the router's address 162.187.1.105 (I'm making
these numbers up since I have no idea what they are at this time)? How do
I check the IP addresses assigned by the server? Can I check on the server
or should I check each client by using winipcfg or looking in XP (I know
how to do this, I just have to remember how <grin>)?

> As with any broadband connection a firewall is necessary. The router may
> have a built-in firewall, but you should consider individual firewalls on
> each of your machines anyway.

I should also install a firewall on the server as well, correct? Two of
client computers have XP-Pro on them and they have the XP firewall enabled,
I would hope that this is sufficient. Two of the other computers have 98SE
and I will try a freebie firewall such as ZoneAlarm or Sygate on them. The
fifth computer does not link into the network, but it will share the
internet from the switch and router, but it also has XP on it.

The installer and his tech support just kept saying that we needed Windows
2000 or better for our server because once we get on broadband, we will
just be hit with such a load of "junk" and we need better security. I'm
thinking, isn't that what firewalls are for? And, back in the early days
of the internet, I'm sure businesses accessed the internet using T-1
broadband and also used NT servers so this can't be something that has
never ever been configured before.

I will try your suggestions and let you know how it works out. Thanks so
much for your assistance.

Patty

On 13 Apr 2005 15:55:00 -0700, nmayes wrote:

> Hi Patty, what are you IP configurations for the current NT DHCP server
> and the addresses provided by your dish-network router?
>
> -nm

At this point in time, I'm not sure, but I'm sure I will find out tomorrow.

Patty

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:01:15 -0400, Doug Sherman [MVP] wrote:

> Assuming that your NT Server provides DHCP, this function must be turned off
> on the router. The router must also be configured with a non-conflicting IP
> address which is compatible with your existing IP addresses. And your
> server must be set to use that IP as its default gateway and its primary
> DNS. On the server, change your DHCP options to provide this IP as the
> default gateway and DNS to your DHCP clients.
>

One more question about IP addresses. Two computers do not log into the
server. How would I configure their IP addresses so that they could also
access the internet through the router?

Patty

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:57:05 -0700, Robh wrote:

> You don't have to Log into the NT Server to be assigned an IP Address by it's
> DHCP Server so these clients should get an IP address anyway. Make sure the
> DHCP Option for the Router is set to the address of the Router - usually
> 'Option 003 Router' and also Option '006 DNS Servers' will probably have to
> be set to the IP of the Router.
>

They're connected to the switch now, but neither have IP addresses.

I was told to disable the DHCP option on the router.

Patty

If the clients are on the opposite side of a LAN Router (I don't mean an
Internet Sharing NAT Device) from the DHCP Server, then the LAN Router must
be configured to forward the DHCP Queries from the Clients to the DHCP
Server. The DHCP Server must have a correct Scope that correspondes to the
network segment that the Clients live in.

DHCP is "passive", the Clients must make the request to it.

--

Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com


"Patty" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:111g2dpd2wdur$.1o6v1kdefg2qu$.(E-Mail Removed). ..
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:57:05 -0700, Robh wrote:
>
> > You don't have to Log into the NT Server to be assigned an IP Address by
it's
> > DHCP Server so these clients should get an IP address anyway. Make sure
the
> > DHCP Option for the Router is set to the address of the Router - usually
> > 'Option 003 Router' and also Option '006 DNS Servers' will probably have
to
> > be set to the IP of the Router.
> >
>
> They're connected to the switch now, but neither have IP addresses.
>
> I was told to disable the DHCP option on the router.
>
> Patty

You've got the right idea. Many routers assign 192.168.1.1 with a subnet
mask of 255.255.255.0 to the router LAN connection by default. If your
network machines do not have 192.168.1.x IP addresses, they will not be able
to send traffic to the router even if their default gateway is set to
192.168.1.1. Assuming your NT server is using DHCP to provide IP addresses
to clients, the easiest fix is to change the router's IP to something
compatible. The easiest way to discover the IP addresses of the machines on
your network is to open a command prompt on any network machine and ping the
network computers by name - eg. ping <computername> ENTER.

Also, let us know the make and model of the router - that may make things
easier.

Also, you should have little trouble finding firewalls and antispyware that
will work on Win98. There are many firewalls and antispyware products
available which will run on NT 4.0; some will not, but the idea that NT
cannot safely access the Internet is nonsense.

Doug Sherman
MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP


"Patty" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:01:15 -0400, Doug Sherman [MVP] wrote:
>
> > You do not need a new server - you need a new installer, or a manual for
the
> > router. If this is a common low end router (Linksys, Dlink, NetGear,
> > Belkin), you can probably get the manual online.
>
> I will check tomorrow which brand and model of router it is. I have a
> Linksys on my home network (used to have a NetGear), so I have a little
> idea about routers and configuring them.
>
> > Assuming that your NT Server provides DHCP, this function must be turned
off
> > on the router. The router must also be configured with a
non-conflicting IP
> > address which is compatible with your existing IP addresses. And your
> > server must be set to use that IP as its default gateway and its primary
> > DNS. On the server, change your DHCP options to provide this IP as the
> > default gateway and DNS to your DHCP clients.
>
> He said that he tried disabling the DHCP on the router and it still would
> not work. He tried setting the standard router IP address as the gateway
> on the server, but it didn't work. How would I make the address
> compatible? You mean if the IP addresses were something like
162.187.1.100
> through 104, I should make the router's address 162.187.1.105 (I'm making
> these numbers up since I have no idea what they are at this time)? How do
> I check the IP addresses assigned by the server? Can I check on the
server
> or should I check each client by using winipcfg or looking in XP (I know
> how to do this, I just have to remember how <grin>)?
>
> > As with any broadband connection a firewall is necessary. The router
may
> > have a built-in firewall, but you should consider individual firewalls
on
> > each of your machines anyway.
>
> I should also install a firewall on the server as well, correct? Two of
> client computers have XP-Pro on them and they have the XP firewall
enabled,
> I would hope that this is sufficient. Two of the other computers have
98SE
> and I will try a freebie firewall such as ZoneAlarm or Sygate on them.
The
> fifth computer does not link into the network, but it will share the
> internet from the switch and router, but it also has XP on it.
>
> The installer and his tech support just kept saying that we needed Windows
> 2000 or better for our server because once we get on broadband, we will
> just be hit with such a load of "junk" and we need better security. I'm
> thinking, isn't that what firewalls are for? And, back in the early days
> of the internet, I'm sure businesses accessed the internet using T-1
> broadband and also used NT servers so this can't be something that has
> never ever been configured before.
>
> I will try your suggestions and let you know how it works out. Thanks so
> much for your assistance.
>
> Patty

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:15:43 -0400, Doug Sherman [MVP] wrote:

> You've got the right idea. Many routers assign 192.168.1.1 with a subnet
> mask of 255.255.255.0 to the router LAN connection by default. If your
> network machines do not have 192.168.1.x IP addresses, they will not be able
> to send traffic to the router even if their default gateway is set to
> 192.168.1.1. Assuming your NT server is using DHCP to provide IP addresses
> to clients, the easiest fix is to change the router's IP to something
> compatible. The easiest way to discover the IP addresses of the machines on
> your network is to open a command prompt on any network machine and ping the
> network computers by name - eg. ping <computername> ENTER.
>
> Also, let us know the make and model of the router - that may make things
> easier.
>
> Also, you should have little trouble finding firewalls and antispyware that
> will work on Win98. There are many firewalls and antispyware products
> available which will run on NT 4.0; some will not, but the idea that NT
> cannot safely access the Internet is nonsense.
>
> Doug Sherman
> MCSE, MCSA, MCP+I, MVP

What I did was make the router (D-Link DI-604) IP address the same as what
the server was using for a gateway. Everyone that needs to access the
server can do so and they can also send email and get online.

The two computers that don't access the server, I gave them a static IP
address that fit into the realm of the network and supplied the gateway
info, and they then were also able to get online.

So, thank you so much for your help. If I had not known that the router IP
address could be changed and that the servers' gateway needed to point to
it, I never would have gotten this far.

Patty
Success!