Newbie Q: Network 2 Airports together?

I want to get internet service from a building nearby, to my office. One
Airport (Graphite) is to be connected to a network hub in the nearby
building.

I want to receive the signal at my office, so I plug the airport (Snow) into
my office network hub.

I also want my PowerBook to be able to receive the wireless signal. (Nothing
special I need to do with the PowerBook, is there?)

So, how do I configure these Airports to get them to talk together? Or will
this happen automatically?

Thanks,
--
DaveC
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Entity DaveC spoke thus:

> So, how do I configure these Airports to get them to talk together? Or will
> this happen automatically?
It won't happen. You need "Bridging" or WDS, which Graphite can't do. But
snow and Extreme both do. Time to upgrade.

If it's any consolation, that antique Graphite still has some value left in
it. There's a Lucent WaveLan card in there that is easily removed in case
you have no other use for the Graphite.

-- Gnarlie
Better to be thought a fool and lurk, than to post and remove all doubt.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:42:05 -0800, Gnarlodious wrote
(in message <BC16340B.30575%(E-Mail Removed) .com>):

> It won't happen. You need "Bridging" or WDS, which Graphite can't do. But
> snow and Extreme both do. Time to upgrade.

OK. Best to know now.

Thanks,
--
DaveC
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:42:05 -0800, Gnarlodious wrote
(in message <BC16340B.30575%(E-Mail Removed) .com>):

> It won't happen. You need "Bridging" or WDS, which Graphite can't do. But
> snow and Extreme both do. Time to upgrade.

Is bridging a function of wireless, or is it a function of the router built
into the Airport.

I ask, because I have other routers I could connect to the graphite Airport,
if that would provide the bridging function...

Thanks,
--
DaveC
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Entity DaveC spoke thus:

> Is bridging a function of wireless, or is it a function of the router built
> into the Airport.
It's a hardware thing.

> I ask, because I have other routers I could connect to the graphite Airport,
> if that would provide the bridging function...
Nope. The Graphite model was made to plug into an ethernet modem or dialup
line. It can't do anything more imaginative than that.

-- Gnarlie
http://www.Gnarlodious.com/

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:39:13 -0800, Gnarlodious wrote
(in message <BC166B8A.305C7%(E-Mail Removed) .com>):

> Entity DaveC spoke thus:

>> I ask, because I have other routers I could connect to the graphite
>> Airport, if that would provide the bridging function...

> Nope. The Graphite model was made to plug into an ethernet modem or dialup
> line. It can't do anything more imaginative than that.

I realize ther Graphite model is limited. But can't most modern 10baseT
Ethernet routers do bridging? And can't this function be utilized, with the
Graphite simply doing the wireless-to-10baseT conversion?

Thanks,
--
DaveC
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>> I realize ther Graphite model is limited. But can't most modern 10baseT
>> Ethernet routers do bridging? And can't this function be utilized, with
>> the Graphite simply doing the wireless-to-10baseT conversion?

> I have a Linksys WAP11 (~$70) wirelessly connected to a "Graphite"
> Airport, and the Linksys then provides wired ethernet LAN access to a
> small group of PC's. The wireless link is about 100 feet separation. My
> AP treats the WAP11 like another unit with an airport card, giving it
> one non-routable address.
>
> I know that Graphite Airports won't "bridge" one to another, and I
> _thought_ that Snow AP's wouldn't either. I believe the AP Extreme will
> do this, and allow wireless and wired LAN connection at each AP.
>
> This may not be bridging, or it may not be "imaginative", but I think it
> accomplishes what you envision...

So the Graphite is your WAN access point (the "transmitter"), and your WAP11
is the LAN access point (the "receiver")?

It sounds like I may be able to use the Airports (1 Graphite, 1 Snow model)
to do similarly, after all. Or at the least, use the Airports to do simple
wireless-to-10baseT conversion and my Linksys BESFR41 router to do the
routing function...

Others' experiences, observations, and comments welcome.

Thanks,
--
DaveC
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DaveC <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I realize ther Graphite model is limited. But can't most modern 10baseT
> Ethernet routers do bridging? And can't this function be utilized, with the
> Graphite simply doing the wireless-to-10baseT conversion?

There's bridging and there's bridging.

Just about any wireless access point or router (base station) can bridge
its wireless network to the Ethernet LAN it's connected to, so that the
two physical networks appear as one for IP addressing purposes. This
kind of bridging -- from Ethernet LAN port to wireless network -- is
always active on an AirPort Extreme Base Station but can be disabled on
the older Apple base station models.

Wireless bridging, which Apple calls Wireless Distribution System (WDS),
is a different animal. In that kind of bridging, a wireless connection
substitutes for a cable connecting two routers, like two switches
connected via uplinks. Each router may have its own clients, or it may
serve only to relay traffic to a more distant wireless router. Most
current wireless routers can do wireless bridging, although it doesn't
always work between different brands. For Apple products, only the
Extreme Base Station can do wireless bridging.

For a more thorough explanation of wireless bridging, see Chapter 5 of
Engst and Fleishman's Wireless Networking Starter Kit
<http://www.wireless-starter-kit.com/>.

In article <(E-Mail Removed) et>,
DaveC <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> I realize ther Graphite model is limited. But can't most modern 10baseT
> >> Ethernet routers do bridging? And can't this function be utilized, with
> >> the Graphite simply doing the wireless-to-10baseT conversion?
>
> > I have a Linksys WAP11 (~$70) wirelessly connected to a "Graphite"
> > Airport, and the Linksys then provides wired ethernet LAN access to a
> > small group of PC's. The wireless link is about 100 feet separation. My
> > AP treats the WAP11 like another unit with an airport card, giving it
> > one non-routable address.
> >
> > I know that Graphite Airports won't "bridge" one to another, and I
> > _thought_ that Snow AP's wouldn't either. I believe the AP Extreme will
> > do this, and allow wireless and wired LAN connection at each AP.
> >
> > This may not be bridging, or it may not be "imaginative", but I think it
> > accomplishes what you envision...
>
> So the Graphite is your WAN access point (the "transmitter"), and your WAP11
> is the LAN access point (the "receiver")?
>
> It sounds like I may be able to use the Airports (1 Graphite, 1 Snow model)
> to do similarly, after all. Or at the least, use the Airports to do simple
> wireless-to-10baseT conversion and my Linksys BESFR41 router to do the
> routing function...
>
> Others' experiences, observations, and comments welcome.
>
> Thanks,

What you can do is set up WiFi "Roaming". Here is what I do at my house.

I have an Airport Extreme base station and an original Airport Graphite
base station. The Extreme and the Graphite are connected via an
ethernet cable.

The Extreme is setup as the Router, DHCP, and NAT box that makes the
PPPoE connection via the WAN port to the DSL Modem.

The Graphite is set to just bridge WiFi to the etherent. The Graphite
does _NOT_ do routing, and it does _NOT_ do DHCP serving, and it does
_NOT_ do NAT, and it does not try to do any PPPoE.

Both the Extreme and the Graphite have idential SSID names. They both
have identical WEP passwords. They both have identical lists of MAC
addresses for systems allowed to use my WiFi network.

The Extreme uses channel 1 and the Graphite used Channel 11.

What this allows me to do is stay seamlessly connected while I roam
around my house, porch, and yard with my iBook. The iBook automatically
switches to which ever base station it needs to in order to remain
connected.

And before I got the Airport Extreme base station, I did something
similar using a D-Link Cable/DSL router, the Graphite base station, and
an SMC Barricade base station. The D-Link talked to the DSL Modem doing
PPPoE, DHCP, and NAT services. Both the Graphite and the SMC were set
to just bridge the WiFi to the ethernet. All three boxes were connected
together via ethernet cables. I would still be using this arrangment,
but the SMC died after a lightning surge took it out, and I gave the
D-Link to my Mom to front end her DSL Modem.

Bob Harris

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 20:05:14 -0800, Bob Harris wrote
(in message <harris-(E-Mail Removed)>):

> What you can do is set up WiFi "Roaming". Here is what I do at my house.

This sounds fascinating, but it doesn't address my needs.

Internet services are available from a network about 50 feet away, in another
building. I want those services in my office. I cannot run a cable between
the buildings; this is the reason I want to "bridge" 2 Airports together, one
"transmitting" the internet service, and the other "receiving" it.

BTW, the reason I want the 2nd Airport in my office is so that i can print
wirelessly and access servers on my network. Otherwise, I would just connect
to the remote network using the Airport card in my PowerBook.

Other ideas?

Thanks,
--
DaveC
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