New Router - Do I remove my Norton Firewall

Hi

Have two PC's one on XP with SP2 the other on W98SE.

Just installed a router and understand this will do for the firewall without
need for the Norton one.

The PC with XP has no Norton Firewall installed but the PC with Win98SE has
a Norton Firewall.

Do I uninstall the Norton firewall stuff now?

Ken

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:20:25 -0000, "Ken" <Reply to NG only> wrote:

>Hi
>
>Have two PC's one on XP with SP2 the other on W98SE.
>Just installed a router and understand this will do for the firewall without
>need for the Norton one.
>Do I uninstall the Norton firewall stuff now?

Keep it. Security is like an onion, it should be done in layers. Each
layer represents an additional barrier.

You should also ensure you're logging in on the XP box with a
restricted login, not an admin one, that you have formatted the system
partition with NTFS and that you're using file permissioning/security
to prevent easy access to things like c:\windows and c:\program files.

Ideally you should also upgrade the 98SE box to XP Home at the least,
as 98SE is largely unsupported and fixes for security holes are
becoming rare.

> Keep it. Security is like an onion, it should be done in layers. Each
> layer represents an additional barrier.

Agreed

> You should also ensure you're logging in on the XP box with a
> restricted login, not an admin one

I thought XPlame (sorry, home) only effectively had admin privileges no
matter how you logged on - and that you need Pro to get proper lockdowns
on access.

> Ideally you should also upgrade the 98SE box to XP Home at the least,
> as 98SE is largely unsupported and fixes for security holes are
> becoming rare.

Then again, security through obscurity is an equally valid option...

I`m on 98SE too, and will not be "upgrading" to eXcrementPile any time
soon. I`ll move over to linux first if I can possibly do so.

I`ve also noticed most viruses bypass win9x completely now, and aim
straight for XP.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:43:25 -0000, Colin Wilson <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>> Keep it. Security is like an onion, it should be done in layers. Each
>> layer represents an additional barrier.
>
>Agreed
>
>> You should also ensure you're logging in on the XP box with a
>> restricted login, not an admin one
>
>I thought XPlame (sorry, home) only effectively had admin privileges no
>matter how you logged on - and that you need Pro to get proper lockdowns
>on access.

This is incorrect. XP Home has restricted accts, just like XPPro. With
both, you need to ensure you're using NTFS not FAT32 to get full
benefit. The difference is that XP Home doesn't properly let you
manage permissions on users documents areas.
[ I have 2 XPPro boxes and one XPHome laptop, I've played with
this...]

>> Ideally you should also upgrade the 98SE box to XP Home at the least,
>> as 98SE is largely unsupported and fixes for security holes are
>> becoming rare.
>
>Then again, security through obscurity is an equally valid option...

ROFL !!

>I`m on 98SE too, and will not be "upgrading" to eXcrementPile any time
>soon. I`ll move over to linux first if I can possibly do so.

Believe me, XP is a big improvement over 98SE. I resisted for several
years, eventially committed and have not regretted it a bit. Its
WAAAAY more stable, runs all my kids games as well or better, and
networks much better.

>I`ve also noticed most viruses bypass win9x completely now, and aim
>straight for XP.

This isn't true. More accurately, they target known vectors.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:20:25 -0000, "Ken" <Reply to NG only> wrote:

>Do I uninstall the Norton firewall stuff now?

I would. Unnecessary IMHO. I have a Netgear DG 834, and rely on the
internal firewall and NAT (network address translation to protect me).

No doubt somebody will argue that another firewall will give you and
extra layer of protection. What they won't tell you is that you will
go from 99.8% secure to 99.9%. Hardly worth the trouble.
--
Cheers,

Guy

** Stress - the condition brought about by having to
** resist the temptation to beat the living daylights
** out of someone who richly deserves it.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:20:25 -0000, "Ken" <Reply to NG only> wrote:

>Hi
>
>Have two PC's one on XP with SP2 the other on W98SE.
>
>Just installed a router and understand this will do for the firewall without
>need for the Norton one.
>
>The PC with XP has no Norton Firewall installed but the PC with Win98SE has
>a Norton Firewall.
>
>Do I uninstall the Norton firewall stuff now?
>

Yes and no.

Personally, I won't let Norton anywhere near anything I control. They
used to have a very bad reputation for flakiness, and although I
believe they are better now, I'm not changing to them.

Personally, I sue Zonealarm (www.zonelabs.com), but that is still not
perfect.

But you still should have a personal firewall on all your PCs as well
as the router. The router will stop almost all *incoming* problems,
but knows nothing about the programs on your PC that should be
accessing the internet.

So if you get a trojan (and a firewall will do nothing to prevent
that), then it can "call home", and the firewall in the router will
blissfully let it. A software firewall on your PC has a *chance* of
stopping it.

You also very much still need up to date virus protection. (for a good
one, free for home use, I would recommend AVAST from www.avast.com )

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Life is uncertain...eat dessert first!

To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:45:07 +0000, Dr Teeth
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>No doubt somebody will argue that another firewall will give you and
>extra layer of protection. What they won't tell you is that you will
>go from 99.8% secure to 99.9%. Hardly worth the trouble.

Wrong.

For starters most s/w firewalls block OUTBOUND connections you may not
want, which a router can't do (usefully). This could be anything from
spyware to 'web habits monitoring' s/w to Outlook trying to pull
webbugs and images. If you get a spyware or viral infaction, a cheap
hardware firewall does squat to protect you.

And if you run a webserver (or any other server) on your PC, then the
hardware firewall is doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to protect you as you
told it to let port 80 alone.

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:00:37 +0000, Alex Heney <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>So if you get a trojan (and a firewall will do nothing to prevent
>that), then it can "call home", and the firewall in the router will
>blissfully let it. A software firewall on your PC has a *chance* of
>stopping it.

Any decent anti-virus program will do that. I use AVG v7 free edition.

Agree with you totally about Norton. Rip off merchants for one; nowt
seems to change between one year's edition and the next. Eee, when I
were a lad you used to get those (small) changes as free patches.

I've had some Norton software here, but got it off sharpish AND it was
cracked (cough, cough).
--
Cheers,

Guy

** Stress - the condition brought about by having to
** resist the temptation to beat the living daylights
** out of someone who richly deserves it.

Mark McIntyre wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 21:45:07 +0000, Dr Teeth

> Wrong.
>
> For starters most s/w firewalls block OUTBOUND connections you may not
> want, which a router can't do (usefully). This could be anything from
> spyware to 'web habits monitoring' s/w to Outlook trying to pull
> webbugs and images. If you get a spyware or viral infaction, a cheap
> hardware firewall does squat to protect you.

Actually, the Netgear DG834G has a full firewall built in. I have mine set
to block all outgoing and incoming traffic, other than the known ports I
need to surf the net, retrieve email, etc. If I wanted to, I could lock it
down so that outgoing requests are restricted to certain IP address, e.g.
POP3 requests only go to the IP addresses of my POP3 servers.

--
Regards,
Stephen
Remove theobvious to reply ;o)

Alex Heney wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:20:25 -0000, "Ken" <Reply to NG only> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Have two PC's one on XP with SP2 the other on W98SE.
>>
>> Just installed a router and understand this will do for the
>> firewall without need for the Norton one.
>>
>> The PC with XP has no Norton Firewall installed but the PC with
>> Win98SE has a Norton Firewall.
>>
>> Do I uninstall the Norton firewall stuff now?
>>
>
> Yes and no.
>
> Personally, I won't let Norton anywhere near anything I control.
> They used to have a very bad reputation for flakiness, and although
> I believe they are better now, I'm not changing to them.

Hmm, I've used Norton for years and while I agree they were somewhat
flaky, the latest versions (I'm using Personal Firewall and Antivirus
2004) are fine and have alerted me to many potential threats. They do tend
to pop up boxes asking for permission to do things a lot, but personally I
like that as it shows me the software is working.

> Personally, I sue Zonealarm (www.zonelabs.com), but that is still
> not perfect.

I used that on a laptop once but never really got on with the user
interface. YMMV though.

> But you still should have a personal firewall on all your PCs as
> well as the router. The router will stop almost all *incoming*
> problems, but knows nothing about the programs on your PC that
> should be accessing the internet.

Exactly.

> So if you get a trojan (and a firewall will do nothing to prevent
> that), then it can "call home", and the firewall in the router will
> blissfully let it. A software firewall on your PC has a *chance* of
> stopping it.
>
> You also very much still need up to date virus protection. (for a
> good one, free for home use, I would recommend AVAST from
> www.avast.com )


Ivor