New 2wire at&t DSL install

I just installed an at&t DSL setup with a 2wire 2701HG-B WiFi gateway.
The installation went poorly.

I could connect to the modem/router from one wired computer, but it would
hang painting router internal pages. Another wired computer would fail
to get a DHCP address. They both worked fine at a different location.

I could not connect to http://homeportal. The supposed initial redirect of
any address only worked one time.

I phoned the ever helpful technicians. The first thing they wanted me to
do was replace the "T" splitter with the "wall mount" splitter. If that
had worked, that would be his final fix, to leave a wall mount plate
hanging from my phone jack. ;-(
He was sure I had a bad splitter because of noise on the line, even after I
told him we were on a cell phone, not the DSL line.

Then it was the fault of my laptop, no wait, my desktop. No wait, it's my
Symantec firewall. My WiFi client must be of poor quality. After a reset
of the modem to factory defaults (which he can do but I can't), I was able
to get a DHCP address on my wired connection, and disabled my WiFi.

Opening IE wanted to go to my home page, and eventually failed. It would
find the IP address according to the status line, but wouldn't connect.
It did not do the captive portal redirect to the setup page that it was
supposed to do. He had me connect to 192.168.1.254 instead.

ping www.yahoo.com would sometimes be 952mSec, sometimes 19mSec. That's
obviously a third party application on my laptop slowing down the ping.

Resetting the modem/router/gateway to factory defaults about three
different times magically let me stumble through the problems on my PC.
On direction of the technician, I had to delete all of my cookies.
I had to reset my IE6 to default configuration.
I had to disable my firewall and virus scan, which must still have been
causing the pings to run 200mSec even after they were disabled.
I had to ipconfig /renew every once in a while, and I had to close the CMD
window after each time.

The download of the setup tool, which he says is local in the router, would
hang for 20-30 seconds, and then download at 300KBpS. We debated whether a
failure rate of "less than one percent" represented 1 in 100 or 1 in 11
million.


Now it works... sort of. It is apparently very important that my email
works. That seems to be the proof that the router is installed and
working. I could hear his supervisor making comments about customers that
think they know more than the support techs.

He had me adjust the WiFi to a power level of 10 from the default of 4, and
change the channel from 1 to 10. Now, my AR5211 built in WiFi can connect
as long as I have line of site, and I'm within about 10 feet.

On the other computer, my old DLink DWL-122 USB dongle sees nothing unless
it's within about 5 feet. The new Belkin F5D7050 USB dongle finds the AP,
asks for the WEP key, then drops back to the screen to generate a new
profile, asking for the WEP key. Turning off the Belkin client and using
WZC, I get connected, and then it drops after a minute or two.

When I scan for networks, a neighbor a few hundred feet away shows up at
the same signal level as the 2wire, on the PC or the laptop.

Is the 2wire 2701 a piece of junk, or do I just have a bad one?

I did get a dslreports speedtest at 2761 on a wired connection. I don't
know if it is just unstable as all get out, or what. DSL is new here in
town. Maybe it's just not fully baked yet. But that shouldn't affect my
connection from PC to router.

I'm going to daisy-chain a Linksys BEFW11S4 router as a WAP and see if that
gives decent WiFi.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 20:37:50 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>I just installed an at&t DSL setup with a 2wire 2701HG-B WiFi gateway.

>I could not connect to http://homeportal.

Try:
<http://gateway.2wire.net/>
instead. See Appendix A "To activate your Internet account" in the
2701 Installation docs. If you don't have Install docs, download them
from:
<http://www.2wire.com/pages/pdfs/2701_installation_guide.pdf>
Also the User Guide at:
<http://www.2wire.com/pages/pdfs/5100-000326-000.Rev.A.pdf>

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Try:
> <http://gateway.2wire.net/>
> instead. See Appendix A "To activate your Internet account" in the

That worked the first time, but it hung somewhere further in the process,
and I never saw the base page again. I could see the URL in the previous
addresses dropdown, but it didn't work. I don't know if it's a one-time
use, or if mine is bad.

I was able to get to the more advanced setup, noted on the dslreports
pages, http://gateway.2wire.net/setup, but not the basic one. I can't
recall now if I got there by IP address or name. The name shows in
"history" for yesterday.

After tech support resetting the modem remotely, I was able to get to the
basic setup pages again, so I think that's a one time shot, at least on my
modem. Now that it is working, I'll visit again today, to see if that
basic setup is still available. I went to the basic setup pages by IP
address each time yesterday. Tech support never even mentioned the name
when the initial redirection didn't work, which they insisted was due to
cookies on my machine.

I turned off the 2701 Wifi, cabled in a Linksys BEFW11S4 as a WAP, and I
have stable performance at much greater range. I talked to another guy
with a 2701, and he is happy with the WiFi performance through a couple of
interior walls at the default WiFi settings, and I am not happy at max
power, so I think I'll give tech support another call today.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

(E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:

>Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Try:
>> <http://gateway.2wire.net/>
>> instead. See Appendix A "To activate your Internet account" in the
>
>That worked the first time, but it hung somewhere further in the process,
>and I never saw the base page again. I could see the URL in the previous
>addresses dropdown, but it didn't work. I don't know if it's a one-time
>use, or if mine is bad.

It's NOT one-time. I've used the URL to get to the setup page many
times on more than one 2wire router after initial installation.
However, I usually can't remember the URL so I just go directly to the
gateway IP address as:
<http://192.168.1.254/>
Don't forget the "/" at the end. It often fails without it.

>I was able to get to the more advanced setup, noted on the dslreports
>pages, http://gateway.2wire.net/setup, but not the basic one. I can't
>recall now if I got there by IP address or name. The name shows in
>"history" for yesterday.

Are you perhaps changing the IP address of the router in the setup?
That can cause weird problems is you use the name instead of the IP
address. The DNS cache might have the old IP address and not
recognize the change. The fix is to exit the browser, run:
ipconfig /flushdns
and try again. I forgot the Linux equivalent incantation.

Incidentally, there's nothing coming from the internet that's causing
a DNS lookup failure. I just tried to ping gateway.2wire.net and got
"unknown host".

>After tech support resetting the modem remotely, I was able to get to the
>basic setup pages again, so I think that's a one time shot, at least on my
>modem. Now that it is working, I'll visit again today, to see if that
>basic setup is still available. I went to the basic setup pages by IP
>address each time yesterday. Tech support never even mentioned the name
>when the initial redirection didn't work, which they insisted was due to
>cookies on my machine.

Yep. IP address always works for me. Also, the built in web server
in the 2wire seems to prefer seeing a / at the end of the URL.

Have you requested a new firmware load from support? They can
initiate that remotely.

>I turned off the 2701 Wifi, cabled in a Linksys BEFW11S4 as a WAP, and I
>have stable performance at much greater range. I talked to another guy
>with a 2701, and he is happy with the WiFi performance through a couple of
>interior walls at the default WiFi settings, and I am not happy at max
>power, so I think I'll give tech support another call today.

Did you try cranking up the wireless power setting in the setup?

One problem might be coincidence, but you have at least two (setup
weirdness and lousy RF wireless range). The long yahoo ping might a
sign of additional problems. Try pinging the ISP gateway address
instead.

Methinks there's sufficient justification to request an exchange. Is
there a warranty shipping label and instructions in the box?

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> (E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:

> >Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> It's NOT one-time. I've used the URL to get to the setup page many
> times on more than one 2wire router after initial installation.
> However, I usually can't remember the URL so I just go directly to the
> gateway IP address as:
> <http://192.168.1.254/>
> Don't forget the "/" at the end. It often fails without it.

That brings up the status page, where I can do "stuff", but it's not the
guided tour initial setup.

From there, the "setup wizard" in the lower right corner goes to the
advanced setup noted on the dslreports page. The other setup options are
on other tabs, just the "ez startup" is missing.

> Are you perhaps changing the IP address of the router in the setup?

Nope. I generally leave stuff at default until it's all working, and then
I start adjusting.

> Incidentally, there's nothing coming from the internet that's causing
> a DNS lookup failure. I just tried to ping gateway.2wire.net and got
> "unknown host".

It was something in the router that was bad, and probably still is bad ;-(
The router returns its own DNS entries, and the initial setup is probably
keyed by whether the password exists or not.

> Yep. IP address always works for me. Also, the built in web server
> in the 2wire seems to prefer seeing a / at the end of the URL.

The IP address works, and I suspect that is why tech support doesn't bother
describing the name.

> Have you requested a new firmware load from support? They can
> initiate that remotely.

I'd rather have a new router.

> Did you try cranking up the wireless power setting in the setup?

I went from 4 to 10, which makes it barely tolerable for a range of 15
feet.

> One problem might be coincidence, but you have at least two (setup
> weirdness and lousy RF wireless range). The long yahoo ping might a
> sign of additional problems. Try pinging the ISP gateway address
> instead.

Now that I have a Linksys WiFi connection, I haven't noticed any problems
with the yahoo pings. Maybe the router was working too hard on WiFi to
handle wired traffic. The 2wire Wireless is disabled.

> Methinks there's sufficient justification to request an exchange. Is
> there a warranty shipping label and instructions in the box?

Now I am using the DSL, and the box is in another location.
I need a bigger car.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

On Oct 9, 4:37 pm, d...@43.usenet.us.com wrote:
> I just installed an at&t DSL setup with a 2wire 2701HG-B WiFi gateway.
> The installation went poorly.
>
> I could connect to themodem/router from one wired computer, but it would
> hang painting router internal pages. Another wired computer would fail
> to get a DHCP address. They both worked fine at a different location.

Sounds so much like using Windows to find a lose AC power cord.
Everything that follows was way to complex, utter confusing, involves
too much equipment and variables, and does not even break the problem
down into parts.

Well, most support techs do not even understand simplest concepts
that even a Ham radio Novice would understand. For example, a very
first number required was signal strength observed by each computer
and in various locations. That dB number is routine with Dell
Computers (using Dell's WiFi software also called WLAN Card Utility).
That software should be standard from every computer manufacturer or
from the WiFi card manufacturer. Such information is not available
from Windows utilities AND is essential for breaking a problem down
into parts - then solving each part. Trying to solve such problems
using only Windows is a nightmare.

Instead the tech simply shotgunned - i.e. increase signal strength
from 4 to 10. What the untrained do when they have not a clue. Did
this because he had neither a clue nor any training how to solve
problems using a diagnostic mental process. He could only shotgun.

Without those signal numbers (signal strength or signal to noise
ratio), then everything performed may have even complicated the
problem. And then it gets more difficult. Many WiFi computer
peripheral suppliers cannot even bother to provide dB numbers since
the consumer is 'too dumb to understand numbers'. At least that is
their rationalization. Therefore you we all but told to 'piss in the
wind'.

Why would he instruct you to increase signal power from 4 to 10?
Because he first had numbers that said signal power was a problem?
No. Instead he just shotgunned - kept blindly changing things hoping
to make things work without even knowing what those changes actually
did.

w_tom <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Oct 9, 4:37 pm, d...@43.usenet.us.com wrote:
> > I just installed an at&t DSL setup with a 2wire 2701HG-B WiFi gateway.
> > The installation went poorly.
> >
> > I could connect to the modem/router from one wired computer, but it would
> > hang painting router internal pages. Another wired computer would fail
> > to get a DHCP address. They both worked fine at a different location.

> Sounds so much like using Windows to find a lose AC power cord.
> Everything that follows was way to complex, utter confusing, involves
> too much equipment and variables, and does not even break the problem
> down into parts.

But Jeff likes lots of details ;-)

> Well, most support techs do not even understand simplest concepts
> that even a Ham radio Novice would understand. For example, a very

And then you wander off in a different complex direction of what you would
like to see, but isn't available. That's not very helpful, either.

> Why would he instruct you to increase signal power from 4 to 10?

'cause it's there. A knob he could twiddle.

> Because he first had numbers that said signal power was a problem?
> No. Instead he just shotgunned - kept blindly changing things hoping
> to make things work without even knowing what those changes actually
> did.

I think that's true. The "confusing" in the first posting was the trail
that he was carving, that I was following. Set this, that, and the other
thing on my computer to defaults, clearing cookies, configurations, turning
off firewalls, and other "third party apps", in the hope that one of them
might cure his broken hardware.

Claiming that ping times of 900mSec were because of something on my
computer is ludicrous. It might have happened once upon a time, on
someone's computer. No ping? Maybe. Slow ping? I'm thinking not.

Today, I took the 2wire 2701 router home. Using an add-on client that
expresses signal strength in percentages, I see that my Netgear (channel
11) and the 2wire (channel 1) are both at "100%" with the routers about 10
feet apart, 5 feet from the laptop. As I walk away, the Netgear stays at
"100%" while the 2wire drops to 80 within 10-15 feet, 60 at 30 feet, and
then disappears, the Netgear still at 100%.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

(E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:

>That brings up the status page, where I can do "stuff", but it's not the
>guided tour initial setup.

Sorry. I misunderstood. Go to the status page with Mozilla Firefox
and look under:
Tools -> Page Info -> Links
It may be there but will hidden.

I'll be at a customers with a 2wire 2701HG on Friday or Monday and
will have some time to tinker.

>From there, the "setup wizard" in the lower right corner goes to the
>advanced setup noted on the dslreports page. The other setup options are
>on other tabs, just the "ez startup" is missing.

Well, you might be half right. Many such "wizard" setups are setup to
start when the router is set to defaults and has never been configured
or connected to the internet. Netgear routers are a good example of
this. The initial URL will give you the wizard. However, only by
RTFM or knowing the secret URL incantation, can one bypass the wizard
and go directly to the main status page. On later versions, it knows
that you've already setup the router and bypasses the wizard. Howver,
the wizard is available on the menu bar. I would think that this
would be the case with 2wire.

Neato.... I just found another router emulator. So far they have some
Dlink, WRT54g, and 2wires:
<http://www.supportshots.com/two_wire/index.html>
Egads, you're right. It says "Wizards" on the right, but it takes you
to advanced settings. Kinda sounds like an HTML bug. If I hit "Site
Map" (uppper right), it lists "See all setup wizards" but also goes to
the advanced settings.

Ah, foundit. Hit:
"site map" -> "Systems Setup Wizard"
That brings you to the key code. The screen says "Setup Wizard". The
emulator screws up past this point, but I think that will do the
wizard thing. Try this URL and see if takes you directly there:
<http://192.168.1.254/xslt288e.html?THISPAGE=A11>

>I generally leave stuff at default until it's all working, and then
>I start adjusting.

Y'er no fun. I tweak everything to see what it will do. Then, I
reset to defaults and do it the right way. It's all part of Learn By
Destroying(tm) or if you haven't broken it, you don't really
understand it.

>It was something in the router that was bad, and probably still is bad ;-(
>The router returns its own DNS entries, and the initial setup is probably
>keyed by whether the password exists or not.

Yep. If not the password or key code, perhaps running a checksum on
the settings in NVRAM and comparing them with the defaults. If the
same, the router hasn't been configured.

>The IP address works, and I suspect that is why tech support doesn't bother
>describing the name.

Or, like me, they also can't remember the goofy URL.

>I went from 4 to 10, which makes it barely tolerable for a range of 15
>feet.

It's broken. That's probably not going to fix itself with settings.
You've already confirmed that your test laptop is totally functional
with a BEFW11S4. The router is sick, sick, sick.

>Now that I have a Linksys WiFi connection, I haven't noticed any problems
>with the yahoo pings. Maybe the router was working too hard on WiFi to
>handle wired traffic. The 2wire Wireless is disabled.

Maybe it was doing an automagic firmware update upon initial
connection? Did you give it enough time to finish?

>Now I am using the DSL, and the box is in another location.
>I need a bigger car.

I had the same problem when I was driving a small (Dodge D50 diesel)
pickup. I could only carry so much in the front seat. So, after I
blew up the engine, I bought an Isuzu Trooper. Now, I can carry
everything I own and still have room for the groceries. By
coincidence, I spent about 4 hours yesterday doing nothing but
cleaning out the troop carrier, so I can haul magazines and dead
computers to the recycler. However, I overshot and am now looking for
something smaller that will serve the function, but with better gas
mileage. I really miss the 30+ MPG on the diesel.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

w_tom <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>Sounds so much like using Windows to find a lose AC power cord.

Sorry, but that only works with the Microsoft Active-AC smart power
cord. It's plug-n-play into the wall socket, loads a DRM enabled
license to operate the power cord, checks compatibility with the
attached equipment, verifies if you've paid your assorted annual
license fees to Microsoft, and then applies power to your computer
(after checking for updates).

>Everything that follows was way to complex, utter confusing, involves
>too much equipment and variables, and does not even break the problem
>down into parts.

Yeah, I do that sometimes. I never seem to have enough equipment or
variables. I guess I can buy more equipment on eBay, but where do I
purchase more variables?

"Break the problem down into parts"? Well, I can add an axe in my
tool kit, but breaking into parts that way does tend to invalidate the
warranty. Are you sure this is a good idea?

>Well, most support techs do not even understand simplest concepts
>that even a Ham radio Novice would understand.

I'm not clear if you're referring to me or to the 2wire phone support
personality. I thought it expedient to ask before I invoke my wrath.

The US Novice class of ham radio operator was dropped in April, 2000.

As support is probably in India, their ham licensing structure is
rather different from the US. See:
<http://www.hamradioindia.org/amateur_radio/?sid=55d902f71715e596a5961f541b898bbf#howtobecome>
for the various license grades. Looks like they also don't have a
Novice license grade.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Sorry. I misunderstood. Go to the status page with Mozilla Firefox
> and look under:
> Tools -> Page Info -> Links
> It may be there but will hidden.

I might try that on Saturday.

> <http://www.supportshots.com/two_wire/index.html>
> Egads, you're right. It says "Wizards" on the right, but it takes you
> to advanced settings.

Not very Wizardly, is it?

> wizard thing. Try this URL and see if takes you directly there:
> <http://192.168.1.254/xslt288e.html?THISPAGE=A11>
That looks like a manually mangled link from the emulator, but I can piece
together what you are trying to do.
http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=A11

> Y'er no fun. I tweak everything to see what it will do. Then, I
> reset to defaults and do it the right way. It's all part of Learn By
> Destroying(tm) or if you haven't broken it, you don't really
> understand it.

I like to confirm that it's working, break it, and recover it manually. I
want to know that the base works before I fuss.

> It's broken. That's probably not going to fix itself with settings.
> You've already confirmed that your test laptop is totally functional
> with a BEFW11S4. The router is sick, sick, sick.

It's no longer sick. It died. It clicked a few times, like an old modem
trying to go off hook, and now it's dead. PS puts out +5vdc, unloaded, but
there are no lights.

> >Now that I have a Linksys WiFi connection, I haven't noticed any problems
> >with the yahoo pings. Maybe the router was working too hard on WiFi to
> >handle wired traffic. The 2wire Wireless is disabled.

> Maybe it was doing an automagic firmware update upon initial
> connection? Did you give it enough time to finish?

That's a good thought. I don't recall the time correlation of the slow
pings. When it is working well, the downloads from dslreports are so
consistently close to 2048KBytes/sec that it must be a cap. Uploads are
around 480. The 2wire status page says
Downstream Rate: 2496 kbps
Upstream Rate: 512 kbps
(I love the capitalization conventions).

The at&t DSL speed test seems to have problems of it's own. It never
reports over 400KBytes/sec down, even on my 10Mbps cable.
Oops, that's just "Irvine". "San Francisco" and "Pleasanton" are both at
8Mbps for my cable. http://helpme.att.net/dsl/speedtest/

At another location, I was puzzling over a throughput chart from NGenius (I
think a Cisco product), where two different charts in the same pdf report
output file seem to conflict. One shows "24mbps" which I can believe is a
Megabit/sec rate on a DS3, but another chart that shows usage per TCP port
shows 3mbps, which seems coincidentally close to a MegaByte/sec rate.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5