network (& wifi) primer needed

Greetings,

1st, I'd like to ask if there's a good on-line primer or even a book
that can bring a novice (or someone who's been out of touch for a couple
of decades) up to at least a walking speed on networks in general and
wireless networking in particular. I actually found dealing with serial
modems and CPM or the old MS-DOS easier to handle than the vague, 'tell
us what you want; we'll guess at what you really mean & do something
that's invisible to you' "help" files in XP.

2nd, I need info (like on setting up & adding a 2nd router/access point,
using a Cantenna or other directional antenna, to an existing
wired/wireless network. The existing wireless router needs to stay in
service; I have run cat-5 wire to the 'cantenna' location (needed to get
around trees/buildings). Will I need to manually set IP addresses, etc
in the new router/access point?

3rd, my hope is to set up a dedicated 'wireless range extender' like the
Linksys WRE54G or similar product at the aim-point of the cantenna to
allow 2 or 3 computers to wirelessly find their way to the internet.

Distance between the 2 'networks' is around 800 feet. The cantenna will
be shooting a 'line' 30 degrees, more or less, off the line back to the
original router.

Any obvious rf interference issues?

Any practical way to hide the files on the 2 'networks' from the other
network, but allow sharing within each 'network'?

Is there any way to get past XP's patronizing 'help' to see what it
needs to make something work?

Thanks for your indulgence,

Charlie

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:40:18 -0500, Charlie <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>1st, I'd like to ask if there's a good on-line primer or even a book
>that can bring a novice (or someone who's been out of touch for a couple
>of decades) up to at least a walking speed on networks in general and
>wireless networking in particular.

Sure. I was just reading a fairly basic tutorial slide show on the
Veriwave web pile. I like it:
<http://www.veriwave.com/pdf/07/80211_Tutorial.pdf>

Intel also has a primer for hot spot operators that was inadvertently
(or stupidly) deleted from their web site. I saved a copy at:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Intel%20HotSpot%20Guide.pdf>
Don't tell Intel that I'm illegally redistributing their copyrighted
documentation and soliciting others to do the same.

There's plenty more tutorials, but that should get you started on the
path to righteousness and wi-fi nirvana.

>I actually found dealing with serial
>modems and CPM or the old MS-DOS easier to handle than the vague, 'tell
>us what you want; we'll guess at what you really mean & do something
>that's invisible to you' "help" files in XP.

Sorry. The stone age of computing is over. It's not coming back.
CP/M and the command line may be carried along as baggage for many
years, but their utility was long ago marginalized into specialty
applications. Besides, I never could get used to PIP having the
source and destination arguments backwards.

>2nd, I need info (like on setting up & adding a 2nd router/access point,
>using a Cantenna or other directional antenna, to an existing
>wired/wireless network. The existing wireless router needs to stay in
>service; I have run cat-5 wire to the 'cantenna' location (needed to get
>around trees/buildings). Will I need to manually set IP addresses, etc
>in the new router/access point?

Sorry, can't help you. You managed to leave out any clues as to what
hardware you have to work with. In order to answer your questions,
one needs to know:
1. What you are trying to accomplish. One sentence is fine. Don't
forget numbers such as how far, how fast, and how much.
2. What you have to work with. Equipment, model numbers, operating
system, versions, etc.
3. If you're having a problem, what have you done so far and what
happened. Error messages.

You also managed to muddle your terms. A cantenna is not a radio.
It's a type of antenna and is connected to the radio with a very lossy
coaxial cable. You cannot substitute CAT5 for the coax cable. You
can mount the radio on or inside the cantenna, and use CAT5 to supply
data and power to the assembly.

>3rd, my hope is to set up a dedicated 'wireless range extender' like the
>Linksys WRE54G or similar product at the aim-point of the cantenna to
>allow 2 or 3 computers to wirelessly find their way to the internet.

Such range extenders, repeaters, and such are in my never humble
opinion a total waste of time and money. All they do is double the
amount of air time consumed in moving a packet from here to there. Due
to the lack of clear definition and testing, most repeaters and range
extenders have serious compatibility problems and will not work with
all access points or clients.

>Distance between the 2 'networks' is around 800 feet. The cantenna will
>be shooting a 'line' 30 degrees, more or less, off the line back to the
>original router.

800ft will require directional antennas on at least one end of the
link. With a 30 degree bend, you might look into a "sector antenna".
Such an antenna has a beamwidth of 90 to 120 degrees depending on
design and construction. See:
<http://pe2er.nl/wifisector/>
<http://yu1aw.ba-karlsruhe.de/vhf_ant.htm>
The other antennas can be more directional as they only need to be
aimed at one point.

>Any obvious rf interference issues?

How should I know? Wi-Fi and interference hate each other. If you
have neighbors nearby, or a municipal wireless network nearby, you're
going to have interference. A better question is "do you have line of
sight"? My guess is you don't or you wouldn't be asking about
repeaters.

>Any practical way to hide the files on the 2 'networks' from the other
>network, but allow sharing within each 'network'?

This has nothing to do with wireless internet. Maybe someone else can
explain how Windoze XP security works.

>Is there any way to get past XP's patronizing 'help' to see what it
>needs to make something work?

Yes. I never use the MS help thing. I use Google to search for clues
on the internet. Sometimes it finds stuff on the various Microsoft
web sites, developer sites, blogs, and such. More often, it finds
someone else who has had exactly the same problem and has either
successfully found the answer, or given up in disgust. Sometimes
there is far too much information and I have to sift through the
garbage to find the one true answer. It's like:
Data is free. Information, you have to work for.
Anyway, try Google or one of the other search engines.

>Thanks for your indulgence,

True. I just indulged in some sushi for dinner. Yummmmmm....

>Charlie

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Charlie wrote:
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> Any practical way to hide the files on the 2 'networks' from the other
> network, but allow sharing within each 'network'?
>

Suggest you have a look at:-
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...rmissions.mspx


>

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:40:18 -0500, Charlie <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> 1st, I'd like to ask if there's a good on-line primer or even a book
>> that can bring a novice (or someone who's been out of touch for a couple
>> of decades) up to at least a walking speed on networks in general and
>> wireless networking in particular.
>
> Sure. I was just reading a fairly basic tutorial slide show on the
> Veriwave web pile. I like it:
> <http://www.veriwave.com/pdf/07/80211_Tutorial.pdf>
>
> Intel also has a primer for hot spot operators that was inadvertently
> (or stupidly) deleted from their web site. I saved a copy at:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Intel%20HotSpot%20Guide.pdf>
> Don't tell Intel that I'm illegally redistributing their copyrighted
> documentation and soliciting others to do the same.
>
> There's plenty more tutorials, but that should get you started on the
> path to righteousness and wi-fi nirvana.
>
>> I actually found dealing with serial
>> modems and CPM or the old MS-DOS easier to handle than the vague, 'tell
>> us what you want; we'll guess at what you really mean & do something
>> that's invisible to you' "help" files in XP.
>
> Sorry. The stone age of computing is over. It's not coming back.
> CP/M and the command line may be carried along as baggage for many
> years, but their utility was long ago marginalized into specialty
> applications. Besides, I never could get used to PIP having the
> source and destination arguments backwards.
>
Don't want to go back; just wish that Macrosoft was a step forward. :-)
>> 2nd, I need info (like on setting up & adding a 2nd router/access point,
>> using a Cantenna or other directional antenna, to an existing
>> wired/wireless network. The existing wireless router needs to stay in
>> service; I have run cat-5 wire to the 'cantenna' location (needed to get
>> around trees/buildings). Will I need to manually set IP addresses, etc
>> in the new router/access point?
>
> Sorry, can't help you. You managed to leave out any clues as to what
> hardware you have to work with. In order to answer your questions,
> one needs to know:
> 1. What you are trying to accomplish. One sentence is fine. Don't
> forget numbers such as how far, how fast, and how much.
> 2. What you have to work with. Equipment, model numbers, operating
> system, versions, etc.
> 3. If you're having a problem, what have you done so far and what
> happened. Error messages.
>
Sorry for the bad phrasing.

Existing network at neighbor's house (DSL is about 800 feet out of range
for me): DSL>wired/wireless router. Added: >cat-5 to outbuilding where
new wireless device feeding Cantenna will be located to achieve
line-of-site to the back deck on my house. I currently have available
Motorola WR850G & CompUSA branded 802.11G (no model #) routers but I'm
willing to purchase better/more suitable components, if needed.

> You also managed to muddle your terms. A cantenna is not a radio.
> It's a type of antenna and is connected to the radio with a very lossy
> coaxial cable. You cannot substitute CAT5 for the coax cable. You
> can mount the radio on or inside the cantenna, and use CAT5 to supply
> data and power to the assembly.
Understood; see above. Bad choice of words in 1st post.
>
>> 3rd, my hope is to set up a dedicated 'wireless range extender' like the
>> Linksys WRE54G or similar product at the aim-point of the cantenna to
>> allow 2 or 3 computers to wirelessly find their way to the internet.
>
> Such range extenders, repeaters, and such are in my never humble
> opinion a total waste of time and money. All they do is double the
> amount of air time consumed in moving a packet from here to there. Due
> to the lack of clear definition and testing, most repeaters and range
> extenders have serious compatibility problems and will not work with
> all access points or clients.
>
Understood, but this is for 1Meg DSL internet access; if I can get it to
work then giving up 1/2 the bandwidth on a 'G' wireless link doesn't
matter to me. Would another type of wireless device at this point be
better, given the need to feed both my house & my shop from the deck
location (see below)? Wire from deck into house is easy, but it would be
nice to have wireless for laptops in the house. Wire to my shop is less
easy, but do-able if required.

>> Distance between the 2 'networks' is around 800 feet. The cantenna will
>> be shooting a 'line' 30 degrees, more or less, off the line back to the
>> original router.
>
> 800ft will require directional antennas on at least one end of the
> link. With a 30 degree bend, you might look into a "sector antenna".
> Such an antenna has a beamwidth of 90 to 120 degrees depending on
> design and construction. See:
> <http://pe2er.nl/wifisector/>
> <http://yu1aw.ba-karlsruhe.de/vhf_ant.htm>
> The other antennas can be more directional as they only need to be
> aimed at one point.
>
>> Any obvious rf interference issues?
>
> How should I know? Wi-Fi and interference hate each other. If you
> have neighbors nearby, or a municipal wireless network nearby, you're
> going to have interference. A better question is "do you have line of
> sight"? My guess is you don't or you wouldn't be asking about
> repeaters.
>
The 30 degree issue is related to the original router radiating 'omni'
pattern and the future Cantenna-equipped wireless device to feed me
being beyond & offset to one side of the line between my deck & his
house. My concern is the Cantenna signal interfering with his existing
wireless network in his house.
` my shop
`
` 100'
`
` my deck
` my house
` 800'
`
his outbuilding
(cantenna location)
` 50'
` his house
` (existing omni wireless)

Obviously, no scale but this is the idea. Not shown are trees, other
buildings, etc that limit LOS choice to: his outbuilding>my deck.

Thanks again for any assistance.

>> Any practical way to hide the files on the 2 'networks' from the other
>> network, but allow sharing within each 'network'?
>
> This has nothing to do with wireless internet. Maybe someone else can
> explain how Windoze XP security works.
>
>> Is there any way to get past XP's patronizing 'help' to see what it
>> needs to make something work?
>
> Yes. I never use the MS help thing. I use Google to search for clues
> on the internet. Sometimes it finds stuff on the various Microsoft
> web sites, developer sites, blogs, and such. More often, it finds
> someone else who has had exactly the same problem and has either
> successfully found the answer, or given up in disgust. Sometimes
> there is far too much information and I have to sift through the
> garbage to find the one true answer. It's like:
> Data is free. Information, you have to work for.
> Anyway, try Google or one of the other search engines.
>
>> Thanks for your indulgence,
>
> True. I just indulged in some sushi for dinner. Yummmmmm....
>
>> Charlie
>

kev wrote:
> Charlie wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>>
>>
>> Any practical way to hide the files on the 2 'networks' from the other
>> network, but allow sharing within each 'network'?
>>
>
> Suggest you have a look at:-
> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...rmissions.mspx
>
thanks; will do that.