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NetBIOS vs TCP/IP?

 
 
esara
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      04-26-2004, 06:32 PM
Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
<quote>
NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
</quote>

I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.

====================================

from www.whatis.com
NetBIOS
NetBIOS (Network Basic Input/Output System) is a program that allows
applications on different computers to communicate within a local area
network (LAN). It was created by IBM for its early PC Network, was
adopted by Microsoft, and has since become a de facto industry
standard. NetBIOS is used in Ethernet and Token Ring networks and,
included as part of NetBIOS Extended User Interface (NetBEUI), in
recent Microsoft Windows operating systems. It does not in itself
support a routing mechanism so applications communicating on a wide
area network (WAN) must use another "transport mechanism" (such as
Transmission Control Protocol) rather than or in addition to NetBIOS.
NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
the network, including error recovery (in session mode). A NetBIOS
request is provided in the form of a Network Control Block (NCB)
which, among other things, specifies a message location and the name
of a destination.

NetBIOS provides the session and transport services described in the
Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) model. However, it does not provide
a standard frame or data format for transmission. A standard frame
format is provided by NetBUI.

NetBIOS provides two communication modes: session or datagram. Session
mode lets two computers establish a connection for a "conversation,"
allows larger messages to be handled, and provides error detection and
recovery. Datagram mode is "connectionless" (each message is sent
independently), messages must be smaller, and the application is
responsible for error detection and recovery. Datagram mode also
supports the broadcast of a message to every computer on the LAN.
 
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Phil Thompson
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      04-26-2004, 07:17 PM
On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (esara) wrote:

>I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
>difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??


TCP/IP is a protocol for moving packets, NetBIOS is the layer above
for networking between windows PCs. Enabling NetBios ove rTCP/IP
allows you to share files and printers.

NetBEUI is an alternative transport mechanism not supported under XP.
Its faster on local LANs not using internet connectivity.


Phil
 
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T i m
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      04-26-2004, 07:50 PM
On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (esara) wrote:

>Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
>of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
><quote>
>NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
>the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
></quote>


What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?

I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
NetBIOS would handle it?
>
>I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
>difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
>I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.


There are many means to this end .. simply

NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
information there is no field saying what network it is on.

IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
between one network (number) and another.

TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
slower.

Roughly ..

T i m

p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)
 
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Jock
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      04-26-2004, 09:27 PM
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 20:17:02 +0100, Phil Thompson <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (esara) wrote:
>
>>I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
>>difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??

>
>TCP/IP is a protocol for moving packets, NetBIOS is the layer above
>for networking between windows PCs. Enabling NetBios ove rTCP/IP
>allows you to share files and printers.
>
>NetBEUI is an alternative transport mechanism not supported under XP.


Whilst it isn't installed, it's available on the XP system disc if
you want it.

>Its faster on local LANs not using internet connectivity.


A lot faster.

--

Jock.
 
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flekso
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Posts: n/a

 
      04-27-2004, 01:55 PM
"T i m" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (esara) wrote:
>
> >Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
> >of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
> ><quote>
> >NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
> >the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
> ></quote>

>
> What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?
>
> I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
> bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
> NetBIOS would handle it?
> >
> >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
> >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
> >I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.

>
> There are many means to this end .. simply
>
> NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
> information there is no field saying what network it is on.
>
> IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
> flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
> extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
> between one network (number) and another.
>
> TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
> etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
> carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
> slower.
>
> Roughly ..
>
> T i m
>
> p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
> 'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)


I was wondering how to make use of both in a small firm, but to use tcp only
as a medium for accessing the gateway to the internet. I've read somthing
about placing the netbeui on top of the protocol stack but no matter in what
order i install them the tcp always comes out on top (i'm talking in terms
of windows connection properties window).

Any clues?


 
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Rob Morley
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      04-27-2004, 03:08 PM
In article <c6lomg$aij$(E-Mail Removed)>, "flekso" (E-Mail Removed)
says...
> "T i m" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (esara) wrote:
> >
> > >Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
> > >of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
> > ><quote>
> > >NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
> > >the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
> > ></quote>

> >
> > What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?
> >
> > I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
> > bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
> > NetBIOS would handle it?
> > >
> > >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
> > >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
> > >I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.

> >
> > There are many means to this end .. simply
> >
> > NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
> > information there is no field saying what network it is on.
> >
> > IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
> > flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
> > extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
> > between one network (number) and another.
> >
> > TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
> > etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
> > carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
> > slower.
> >
> > Roughly ..
> >
> > T i m
> >
> > p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
> > 'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)

>
> I was wondering how to make use of both in a small firm, but to use tcp only
> as a medium for accessing the gateway to the internet. I've read somthing
> about placing the netbeui on top of the protocol stack but no matter in what
> order i install them the tcp always comes out on top (i'm talking in terms
> of windows connection properties window).
>

From memory, just make sure that NetBEUI is installed, that "Enable
NetBIOS over TCP/IP" is _not_ selected on Win9X machines, and "Disable
NetBIOS over TCP/IP" is selected on XP machines.
 
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John Blundell
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      04-27-2004, 06:01 PM
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Phil Thompson
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
>>difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??

>
>TCP/IP is a protocol for moving packets, NetBIOS is the layer above for
>networking between windows PCs. Enabling NetBios ove rTCP/IP allows you
>to share files and printers.
>
>NetBEUI is an alternative transport mechanism not supported under XP.
>Its faster on local LANs not using internet connectivity.


I found NetBEUI less reliable than TCP/IP, when I used it on my original
home network (10base2-BNC under Win 95). I found that large files were
getting corrupted in transfer, and I had to resort to zipping large
files so that I could check for corruption afterwards. When I switched
to TCP/IP, these problems went away.

--
John Blundell

 
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Ian
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      04-27-2004, 08:11 PM
"flekso" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<c6lomg$aij$(E-Mail Removed)>...
> "T i m" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On 26 Apr 2004 11:32:55 -0700, (E-Mail Removed) (esara) wrote:
> >
> > >Hi I want to learn what does "NetBIOS" do? I have found the defination
> > >of NetBIOS (see below please). What I do NOT understand this part
> > ><quote>
> > >NetBIOS frees the application from having to understand the details of
> > >the network, including error recovery (in session mode).
> > ></quote>

> >
> > What I think it's saying might make more sense in a DOS environment?
> >
> > I think it's saying that the application (say a WP package) needent
> > bother with trying to move a file to the (network) printer bacause
> > NetBIOS would handle it?
> > >
> > >I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
> > >difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??
> > >I would appreciate any help in advanced. Thanks.

> >
> > There are many means to this end .. simply
> >
> > NetBIOS. Simple and fast but not routable because in the packet of
> > information there is no field saying what network it is on.
> >
> > IPX / SPX a pair of protocols associated with Novell that are more
> > flexible but (slightly) slower than NetBIOS. Because the frame has
> > extra fields containing network information the data can be routed
> > between one network (number) and another.
> >
> > TCP/IP is the most flexible but because it has more header (routing
> > etc) info in the packet in comparison with NetBIOS and IPX / SPX, can
> > carry less information for the same size packet and therefore is
> > slower.
> >
> > Roughly ..
> >
> > T i m
> >
> > p.s. Bottom line. If you want to use the internet (without a
> > 'gateway') choose TCP /IP ;-)

>
> I was wondering how to make use of both in a small firm, but to use tcp only
> as a medium for accessing the gateway to the internet. I've read somthing
> about placing the netbeui on top of the protocol stack but no matter in what
> order i install them the tcp always comes out on top (i'm talking in terms
> of windows connection properties window).
>
> Any clues?


Why ? You will need nebios if you have a windows network and you will
need TCP/IP for ANY network. But to make life simple if you have a
windows network just install tcp/ip and you will get netbios.
Personally I think you are looking a bit too deep, Just install TCP/IP
and enable netbios if its disabled and forget about it.

Ian
 
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T i m
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      04-27-2004, 10:37 PM
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:01:34 +0100, John Blundell <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Phil Thompson
><(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>>I thought this is what TCP/IP suppose to do not NetBIOS?? what is the
>>>difference between NetBIOS and TCP/IP? do I need both?? and why??

>>
>>TCP/IP is a protocol for moving packets, NetBIOS is the layer above for
>>networking between windows PCs. Enabling NetBios ove rTCP/IP allows you
>>to share files and printers.
>>
>>NetBEUI is an alternative transport mechanism not supported under XP.
>>Its faster on local LANs not using internet connectivity.

>
>I found NetBEUI less reliable than TCP/IP, when I used it on my original
>home network (10base2-BNC under Win 95). I found that large files were
>getting corrupted in transfer, and I had to resort to zipping large
>files so that I could check for corruption afterwards. When I switched
>to TCP/IP, these problems went away.


Might of just been some bad drivers John?

I used to back-up the entire server over a NetBIOS 10base2 LAN every
Friday for 2 years with no problems?

All the best ..

T i m

 
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John Blundell
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      04-28-2004, 06:20 AM
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, T i m
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>I found NetBEUI less reliable than TCP/IP, when I used it on my original
>>home network (10base2-BNC under Win 95). I found that large files were
>>getting corrupted in transfer, and I had to resort to zipping large
>>files so that I could check for corruption afterwards. When I switched
>>to TCP/IP, these problems went away.

>
>Might of just been some bad drivers John?


Maybe, but it is too far away now to double check. I did all sorts of
things to try to sort out the problem. Disabling NetBEUI, and enabling
TCP/IP, without changing the installed software, did the trick.

>I used to back-up the entire server over a NetBIOS 10base2 LAN every
>Friday for 2 years with no problems?


Did you test the integrity, or restore these backups? The problem was
only evident when trying to use the files. If I can remember, the
problem first showed when I transferred some CAB files across, and then
I could not install from them.

--
John Blundell

 
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