Neighborhood iSP

Hi,
I am in the process of designing a network for providing Internet
access to my neighborhood which has only dialup connections as we
speak.
The area comprises of large houses, each of them built on an average of
3 acre plot. Each house is surrounded by medium to dense foliage in the
form of trees. There are about 100 houses in an area spanning 3 miles
by 2 miles.
Now the only ISP who is willing to provide a backhaul has a POP about 5
miles (aerial) away. He is willing to let me put up my radio and
antenna on his tower and I will have to setup a WiPOP at a place near
my community. Now, the question is "how do i get the bandwidth to the
houses?" not everyone may go in for a subscription right away. i am
looking at 50 houses to start with.
i have considered the following options: -
a) create a mesh network using either Firetide or Tropos eqpt but
then the infrastructure cost might kill me.
b) create a WiPOP (outdoor AP with Sectoral antenna- 14dbi) and set up
wireless CPE ( wireless client with directional antenna 14 dbi) and
then drop the connection inside the house by way of cat-5 or connect an
access point if the house owner wants it.
I would appreciate any advise on the matter; Thanks in advance.

outbackwifi wrote:
> Hi,
> I am in the process of designing a network for providing Internet
> access to my neighborhood which has only dialup connections as we
> speak.
> The area comprises of large houses, each of them built on an average of
> 3 acre plot. Each house is surrounded by medium to dense foliage in the
> form of trees. There are about 100 houses in an area spanning 3 miles
> by 2 miles.
> Now the only ISP who is willing to provide a backhaul has a POP about 5
> miles (aerial) away. He is willing to let me put up my radio and
> antenna on his tower and I will have to setup a WiPOP at a place near
> my community. Now, the question is "how do i get the bandwidth to the
> houses?" not everyone may go in for a subscription right away. i am
> looking at 50 houses to start with.
> i have considered the following options: -
> a) create a mesh network using either Firetide or Tropos eqpt but
> then the infrastructure cost might kill me.
> b) create a WiPOP (outdoor AP with Sectoral antenna- 14dbi) and set up
> wireless CPE ( wireless client with directional antenna 14 dbi) and
> then drop the connection inside the house by way of cat-5 or connect an
> access point if the house owner wants it.
> I would appreciate any advise on the matter; Thanks in advance.

That is *not* a simple question. I went with something like your plan B
using smartBridges equipment. I'd seriously consider using Tranzeo CPEs
now as well. Take a look at www.electro-comm.com and look into
subscribing to the mail lists from www.part-15.org and
http://isp-lists.isp-planet.com/isp-wireless/

By the way, if your estimate of getting half the houses turns into
reality, you could go on tour explaining to WISPs how to do it.

roger,
thanks a ton.
I did go and check out tranzeo. excellent value for money i must say.
btw has anybody actually tried out the WISPer antenna from WiFi-plus
(www.wifi-plus.com). They claim to use multi-polarized antennae which
have higher penetrability and stuff

outbackwifi wrote:

> roger,
> thanks a ton.
> I did go and check out tranzeo. excellent value for money i must say.
> btw has anybody actually tried out the WISPer antenna from WiFi-plus
> (www.wifi-plus.com). They claim to use multi-polarized antennae which
> have higher penetrability and stuff

One word comes to mind, "snakeoil".

On 14 Dec 2004 04:23:07 -0800, "outbackwifi"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I did go and check out tranzeo. excellent value for money i must say.
>btw has anybody actually tried out the WISPer antenna from WiFi-plus
>(www.wifi-plus.com). They claim to use multi-polarized antennae which
>have higher penetrability and stuff

I think it's pure hype and baloney, but I'm not sure. He's been
around for quite a few years pushing those antennas. I notice that
he's finally gotten some photos and data sheets. However, no NEC2
pattern plots, no comparison field tests, little clue what's inside,
and fairly expensive. This is the closest I can find that resembles a
test:
http://www.connectronics.com/wifi_plus/NLOSResults.pdf
but I can't understand what they're doing or testing. Also, I
consider the very mention of the term NLOS (non line of sight) to be
poison and prima fascia evidence of baloney to come.

Searching Google, I find one distributor:
http://www.connectronics.com/wifi_plus/
and a very large number of press releases.

My guess(tm) is that multi-polarized really means circularly polarized
as in a CP patch antenna (used in GPS receivers) or a helical antenna.
Probably helical with a triangular cross section instead of a circle.
The omnis are probably discone's or perhaps conical spiral antennas.
Dunno.

There are some real advantages to such a CP antenna:
1. Polarization insensitivity which allows more reliable connection
from arbitrarily polarized client radios (laptops and PDA's).
2. Linear to CP polarization systems have far less Raleigh fades when
moving.
3. For point to point, cancellation of odd numbered reflections,
which change the sense of the antenna from (for example) right hand
circular to left hand circular on each reflection.
4. Impressive bandwidth which reduces group delay at band edges.

The down side is the -3dB loss when going between CP and linear
polarization (vertical or horizontal). That's not really that bad if
you've got a good strong signal to work with, but that's usually not
the case when you're trying to use this antenna to compensate for
NLOS, severe fades, multipath, reflections, and cross polarization.

I've never used or even seen any of these antennas, so I can't be 100%
sure that I'm correct. It might actually be something of value, but I
can't tell from here. You might ask them how much better are their
antennas as in real numbers that can be verified. When I tried that
many years ago, I didn't get an answer.



--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

I did some more research on the WISPer line and found that the hermosa
city, ca wifi project used these antennae. check out
www.wifihermosabeach.com
.. Now is there anybody from around that part of the country who can
vouch/try out the performance?

On 15 Dec 2004 00:37:20 -0800, "outbackwifi"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I did some more research on the WISPer line and found that the hermosa
>city, ca wifi project used these antennae. check out
>www.wifihermosabeach.com
>. Now is there anybody from around that part of the country who can
>vouch/try out the performance?

You might want to ask that question in the Wifi-Plus "forum" at:
http://www.wifi-plus.shoppingcartspl...age/567784.htm
where existing users are sure to be found.

Also, note that these are from Dr Jack Nilsson of Nil-Jon antennas for
lower frequencies:
http://www.niljon.com
http://www.qrz.com/callsign/N8NDL

The patents on related antennas are:
6,806,841
6,496,152
and can be found at:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/srchnum.htm

There are patent application (pending status):
20040164917
20040164918
20040164919
20040164920
which can be found at:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558