Need to switch from cable to ADSL - advice please..

hi

I've been a happy ntl/Virgin customer for several years - great,
reliable broadband connection.

However, I need to move & my new house doesn't have cable
(although it is right on the edge of a suburb that does).

As I understand it, there are inevitable bandwidth sharing issues with
ADSL which means the connection is not as consistent (in bandwidth
terms) as cable.

Can anyone recommend me an ADSL ISP / package which would come nearest
to replicating the 4MB service I have with Virgin ?

Do all providers use BT infrastructure ? If so, do they all provide
similar quality of connection or are some more reliable than others ?

Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge
this information ?

thanks

swayzak

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:54:41 -0800, davethepathologist wrote:

> I've been a happy ntl/Virgin customer for several years - great,
> reliable broadband connection.
>
> However, I need to move & my new house doesn't have cable (although it
> is right on the edge of a suburb that does).

Yep, same here. Gutted.

> As I understand it, there are inevitable bandwidth sharing issues with
> ADSL which means the connection is not as consistent (in bandwidth
> terms) as cable.

In theory it's the line length that limits your ADSL speed. In practise,
you also have to consider that some ISPs don't buy enough capacity to
service their customers needs.

> Can anyone recommend me an ADSL ISP / package which would come nearest
> to replicating the 4MB service I have with Virgin ?

It depends how far you are from the exchange, or rather your line length.
If you've got the number of the prospective ADSL line then samknows.com
will be able to give you an estimate. It will also tell you which LLU
operators have kit at your exchange. Perhaps you could ask the current
occupier if they've had DSL and what it's been like? As an aside, I
wouldn't commit to moving somewhere without knowing how far it is from
the exchange, but then I'm a geek!

Personally if I only wanted 4M I'd get Be Value [a brand of O2] at 14
quid a month as it's unlimited. There are other packages that costs less,
but I know Be are actually capable of delivering the speed and I know
their tech support are useful - better the devil I know. If you have an
O2 mobile contract you might find O2 broadband cheaper.

> Do all providers use BT infrastructure ? If so, do they all provide
> similar quality of connection or are some more reliable than others ?

Apart from the cable companies and the various fixed wireless operators,
yes. However, you will find that LLU operators [eg Sky, O2, Tiscali,
Carphone Wareouse/TalkTalk/AOL] use BTs network to a lesser extent than
BT resellers [eg Entanet]. No LLU operator has unbundled every exchange,
so some will use resell BT in some areas.

One important factor is the willingness or ability of the ISP to request
a BT engineer visit to fix faults. Some are all too keen to follow a
script and tell you to reboot/reinstall/buy new equipment rather than
doing any investigation.

Bear in mind there is nothing wrong with BT resellers per se, it's just
that some of them don't buy enough bandwidth, leading to a rubbish
connection; this can be further exacerbated by said ISP fiddling with
your traffic to mitigate their lack of bandwidth.

> Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
> whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge this
> information ?

The ISP Formerly Known As NTL/Telewest ["TIFKANT"] spend a lot of their
money servicing debt. I wouldn't hold your breath about buildout to new
areas.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
10:10:46 up 15 days, 35 min, 2 users, load average: 1.31, 1.39, 1.41
2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.

In article <a1940098-d74d-4364-9aa8-(E-Mail Removed)>,
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>hi
>
>I've been a happy ntl/Virgin customer for several years - great,
>reliable broadband connection.
>
>However, I need to move & my new house doesn't have cable
>(although it is right on the edge of a suburb that does).
>
>As I understand it, there are inevitable bandwidth sharing issues with
>ADSL which means the connection is not as consistent (in bandwidth
>terms) as cable.

I think you'll find that there are bandwidth sharing (or contention)
with cable too. they're just not as up-front about it as the ADSL
sellers are.

>Can anyone recommend me an ADSL ISP / package which would come nearest
>to replicating the 4MB service I have with Virgin ?

How much do you want to pay?

Then pick 2 of these 3: Low-cost, fast, reliable. You can only have 2.
Any 2, but never all 3.

>Do all providers use BT infrastructure ? If so, do they all provide
>similar quality of connection or are some more reliable than others ?

Some providers have their own equipment in the BT exchanges. There are
typically called LLU suppliers (LLU is Local Loop Unbundled).

On the BT front, you have a choice of over 100 ISPs who use the BT
Wholesale system. BT is just one ISP out of these 100+ who use the BT
wholesale system.

>Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
>whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge
>this information ?

I'd suggest that the chances of any telco digging up the streets to lay
new cable, fibre, copper right now is slim to zero...

You might want to check the pages on:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/

To get a better view of things. Good ISPs IMO are Zen, and any of the
Entanet resellers, and maybe some of the smaller ones with a UK call
centre.

You get what you pay for.

Gordon

On 20 Jan, 10:52, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:54:41 -0800, davethepathologist wrote:
> > I've been a happy ntl/Virgin customer for several years - great,
> > reliable broadband connection.
>
> > However, I need to move & my new house doesn't have cable (although it
> > is right on the edge of a suburb that does).
>
> Yep, same here. Gutted.
>
> > As I understand it, there are inevitable bandwidth sharing issues with
> > ADSL which means the connection is not as consistent (in bandwidth
> > terms) as cable.
>
> In theory it's the line length that limits your ADSL speed. In practise,
> you also have to consider that some ISPs don't buy enough capacity to
> service their customers needs.
>
> > Can anyone recommend me an ADSL ISP / package which would come nearest
> > to replicating the 4MB service I have with Virgin ?
>
> It depends how far you are from the exchange, or rather your line length.
> If you've got the number of the prospective ADSL line then samknows.com
> will be able to give you an estimate. It will also tell you which LLU
> operators have kit at your exchange. Perhaps you could ask the current
> occupier if they've had DSL and what it's been like? As an aside, I
> wouldn't commit to moving somewhere without knowing how far it is from
> the exchange, but then I'm a geek!
>
> Personally if I only wanted 4M I'd get Be Value [a brand of O2] at 14
> quid a month as it's unlimited. There are other packages that costs less,
> but I know Be are actually capable of delivering the speed and I know
> their tech support are useful - better the devil I know. If you have an
> O2 mobile contract you might find O2 broadband cheaper.
>
> > Do all providers use BT infrastructure ? If so, do they all provide
> > similar quality of connection or are some more reliable than others ?
>
> Apart from the cable companies and the various fixed wireless operators,
> yes. However, you will find that LLU operators [eg Sky, O2, Tiscali,
> Carphone Wareouse/TalkTalk/AOL] use BTs network to a lesser extent than
> BT resellers [eg Entanet]. No LLU operator has unbundled every exchange,
> so some will use resell BT in some areas.
>
> One important factor is the willingness or ability of the ISP to request
> a BT engineer visit to fix faults. Some are all too keen to follow a
> script and tell you to reboot/reinstall/buy new equipment rather than
> doing any investigation.
>
> Bear in mind there is nothing wrong with BT resellers per se, it's just
> that some of them don't buy enough bandwidth, leading to a rubbish
> connection; this can be further exacerbated by said ISP fiddling with
> your traffic to mitigate their lack of bandwidth.
>
> > Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
> > whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge this
> > information ?
>
> The ISP Formerly Known As NTL/Telewest ["TIFKANT"] spend a lot of their
> money servicing debt. I wouldn't hold your breath about buildout to new
> areas.
>
> --
> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
> 10:10:46 up 15 days, 35 min, 2 users, load average: 1.31, 1.39, 1.41
> 2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
> For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.

That's very helpful - thanks.

Here is the Samknows result (postcode only, don't have tel no.):

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ex...?ecode=EMODDBY

The house is on Gorse Lane (the long straightish rd opposite the golf
club). It seems to be about 2 miles from the exchange (which offers
Be) - would 2m be a major drag on connection speed ?

Also, does Be set up the line rental (from BT) or so you have to do
this separately ?

On 20 Jan, 10:58, Gordon Henderson <gordon+use...@drogon.net> wrote:
> In article <a1940098-d74d-4364-9aa8-c42575c03...@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
>
> <davethepatholog...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >hi
>
> >I've been a happy ntl/Virgin customer for several years - great,
> >reliable broadband connection.
>
> >However, I need to move & my new house doesn't have cable
> >(although it is right on the edge of a suburb that does).
>
> >As I understand it, there are inevitable bandwidth sharing issues with
> >ADSL which means the connection is not as consistent (in bandwidth
> >terms) as cable.
>
> I think you'll find that there are bandwidth sharing (or contention)
> with cable too. they're just not as up-front about it as the ADSL
> sellers are.
>
> >Can anyone recommend me an ADSL ISP / package which would come nearest
> >to replicating the 4MB service I have with Virgin ?
>
> How much do you want to pay?
>
> Then pick 2 of these 3: Low-cost, fast, reliable. You can only have 2.
> Any 2, but never all 3.
>
> >Do all providers use BT infrastructure ? If so, do they all provide
> >similar quality of connection or are some more reliable than others ?
>
> Some providers have their own equipment in the BT exchanges. There are
> typically called LLU suppliers (LLU is Local Loop Unbundled).
>
> On the BT front, you have a choice of over 100 ISPs who use the BT
> Wholesale system. BT is just one ISP out of these 100+ who use the BT
> wholesale system.
>
> >Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
> >whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge
> >this information ?
>
> I'd suggest that the chances of any telco digging up the streets to lay
> new cable, fibre, copper right now is slim to zero...
>
> You might want to check the pages on:
>
> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/
>
> To get a better view of things. Good ISPs IMO are Zen, and any of the
> Entanet resellers, and maybe some of the smaller ones with a UK call
> centre.
>
> You get what you pay for.
>
> Gordon

thanks

Gordon Henderson wrote:
> In article <a1940098-d74d-4364-9aa8-(E-Mail Removed)>,
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
>> whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge
>> this information ?
>
> I'd suggest that the chances of any telco digging up the streets to lay
> new cable, fibre, copper right now is slim to zero...
>

Yes. NTL had an explicit 'no new cables' policy some years back, and
they now have to make an extreme economic case for any more.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:11:10 -0800, davethepathologist wrote:

> That's very helpful - thanks.
>
> Here is the Samknows result (postcode only, don't have tel no.):
>
> http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ex...?ecode=EMODDBY
>
> The house is on Gorse Lane (the long straightish rd opposite the golf
> club). It seems to be about 2 miles from the exchange (which offers Be)
> - would 2m be a major drag on connection speed ?

http://adsl.yesyes.info/modules/xoop...x.php?cat_id=2 from that
graph I'd say 3.2km [AKA 2 miles] will get you a sync speed of 6-7M.
However, the assumption there is that the line really is only 3.2km. If
the distance between the premises and the exchange is 3.2km, then that's
the minimum length the line can be. You then have to take account for the
fact that the various bits of copper between you and the exchange may not
be top notch. Now you know why people want fibre to the premises!

> Also, does Be set up the line rental (from BT) or so you have to do this
> separately ?

Ah yes, you have to add the 11 quid a month for line rental.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ((E-Mail Removed))
13:19:52 up 15 days, 3:44, 2 users, load average: 1.65, 1.72, 1.53
2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:c98d0228-bc5b-4ffd-b385-(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 20 Jan, 10:52, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:54:41 -0800, davethepathologist wrote:
>> > I've been a happy ntl/Virgin customer for several years - great,
>> > reliable broadband connection.
>>
>> > However, I need to move & my new house doesn't have cable (although it
>> > is right on the edge of a suburb that does).
>>
>> Yep, same here. Gutted.
>>
>> > As I understand it, there are inevitable bandwidth sharing issues with
>> > ADSL which means the connection is not as consistent (in bandwidth
>> > terms) as cable.
>>
>> In theory it's the line length that limits your ADSL speed. In practise,
>> you also have to consider that some ISPs don't buy enough capacity to
>> service their customers needs.
>>
>> > Can anyone recommend me an ADSL ISP / package which would come nearest
>> > to replicating the 4MB service I have with Virgin ?
>>
>> It depends how far you are from the exchange, or rather your line length.
>> If you've got the number of the prospective ADSL line then samknows.com
>> will be able to give you an estimate. It will also tell you which LLU
>> operators have kit at your exchange. Perhaps you could ask the current
>> occupier if they've had DSL and what it's been like? As an aside, I
>> wouldn't commit to moving somewhere without knowing how far it is from
>> the exchange, but then I'm a geek!
>>
>> Personally if I only wanted 4M I'd get Be Value [a brand of O2] at 14
>> quid a month as it's unlimited. There are other packages that costs less,
>> but I know Be are actually capable of delivering the speed and I know
>> their tech support are useful - better the devil I know. If you have an
>> O2 mobile contract you might find O2 broadband cheaper.
>>
>> > Do all providers use BT infrastructure ? If so, do they all provide
>> > similar quality of connection or are some more reliable than others ?
>>
>> Apart from the cable companies and the various fixed wireless operators,
>> yes. However, you will find that LLU operators [eg Sky, O2, Tiscali,
>> Carphone Wareouse/TalkTalk/AOL] use BTs network to a lesser extent than
>> BT resellers [eg Entanet]. No LLU operator has unbundled every exchange,
>> so some will use resell BT in some areas.
>>
>> One important factor is the willingness or ability of the ISP to request
>> a BT engineer visit to fix faults. Some are all too keen to follow a
>> script and tell you to reboot/reinstall/buy new equipment rather than
>> doing any investigation.
>>
>> Bear in mind there is nothing wrong with BT resellers per se, it's just
>> that some of them don't buy enough bandwidth, leading to a rubbish
>> connection; this can be further exacerbated by said ISP fiddling with
>> your traffic to mitigate their lack of bandwidth.
>>
>> > Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
>> > whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge
>> > this
>> > information ?
>>
>> The ISP Formerly Known As NTL/Telewest ["TIFKANT"] spend a lot of their
>> money servicing debt. I wouldn't hold your breath about buildout to new
>> areas.
>>
>> --
>> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
>> 10:10:46 up 15 days, 35 min, 2 users, load average: 1.31, 1.39, 1.41
>> 2x Broadband/IT/Telecoms support positions in Newcastle city centre.
>> For more info call 0191 229 8870 and ask for Steve. No agencies.
>
> That's very helpful - thanks.
>
> Here is the Samknows result (postcode only, don't have tel no.):
>
> http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ex...?ecode=EMODDBY
>
> The house is on Gorse Lane (the long straightish rd opposite the golf
> club). It seems to be about 2 miles from the exchange (which offers
> Be) - would 2m be a major drag on connection speed ?
>
> Also, does Be set up the line rental (from BT) or so you have to do
> this separately ?


I see you have Sky as an option, I would recommend them, have had their Max
service for 8 months with no issues whatsoever, you will need a Sky TV
subscription though, also remember that you cannot have their line rental as
you will need to cancel BT within BT's12 month minimum term which will cost
a bit.

"The Natural Philosopher" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Gordon Henderson wrote:
>> In article
>> <a1940098-d74d-4364-9aa8-(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>> Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
>>> whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge
>>> this information ?
>>
>> I'd suggest that the chances of any telco digging up the streets to lay
>> new cable, fibre, copper right now is slim to zero...
>>
>
> Yes. NTL had an explicit 'no new cables' policy some years back, and they
> now have to make an extreme economic case for any more.

I am in a little enclave about a quarter of a mile across where Nynex
didn't cable, the surrounding area was cabled 10 or 15 years ago.
I cannot conceive of any geographic,demographic or political
reason for this.
--
Graham

%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
> "The Natural Philosopher" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <a1940098-d74d-4364-9aa8-(E-Mail Removed)>,
>>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>> Given the close proximity to a cabled area, is there a way I can check
>>>> whether Virgin plan to connect this street or do they never divulge
>>>> this information ?
>>> I'd suggest that the chances of any telco digging up the streets to lay
>>> new cable, fibre, copper right now is slim to zero...
>>>
>> Yes. NTL had an explicit 'no new cables' policy some years back, and they
>> now have to make an extreme economic case for any more.
>
> I am in a little enclave about a quarter of a mile across where Nynex
> didn't cable, the surrounding area was cabled 10 or 15 years ago.
> I cannot conceive of any geographic,demographic or political
> reason for this.

Possibly wayleave issues, a cockup, or simply no one there wanted it.