Need some expert help on sharing satellite system

My neighbor at our lake house has a satellite internet setup. I told him
that I would share the monthly cost if I was able to get an acceptable
signal.

Using an Orinoco card, Buffalo Air Station antenna, and Network Stumbler we
were able to get a signal that varied from "excellent" to "no signal". He is
currently using WEP for security. If we switch to WPA, would it have any
effect on signal strength?

We are going to install two "dish" antennas that have a stronger db gain to
see if the signal can be improved to an acceptable level.

Can we feed the signal into a wireless router at my house so that I will not
have to run cables? If so, where can I find out how to do this?

Thanks.

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <NumJf.18$GQ.17@trnddc03> on Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:05:01 GMT, "mlsteen1"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>My neighbor at our lake house has a satellite internet setup. I told him
>that I would share the monthly cost if I was able to get an acceptable
>signal.
>
>Using an Orinoco card, Buffalo Air Station antenna, and Network Stumbler we
>were able to get a signal that varied from "excellent" to "no signal".

Sounds like sporadic interference.

>He is
>currently using WEP for security. If we switch to WPA, would it have any
>effect on signal strength?

No.

>We are going to install two "dish" antennas that have a stronger db gain to
>see if the signal can be improved to an acceptable level.

Have you tried different channels?

>Can we feed the signal into a wireless router at my house so that I will not
>have to run cables? If so, where can I find out how to do this?

Yes -- client bridge from your neighbor connected by Ethernet to wireless
access point for your own computers. Make sure they are on different
non-overlapping channels (1, 6, 11), with different SSIDs.

--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR ALT.INTERNET.WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FAQ_for_alt.internet.wireless>

mlsteen1 wrote:
> My neighbor at our lake house has a satellite internet setup. I told him
> that I would share the monthly cost if I was able to get an acceptable
> signal.


The real problem you are facing is that because of high latency and
crappy speeds the 2 way satellite systems are next to useless.


>
> Using an Orinoco card, Buffalo Air Station antenna, and Network Stumbler we
> were able to get a signal that varied from "excellent" to "no signal". He is
> currently using WEP for security. If we switch to WPA, would it have any
> effect on signal strength?
>
> We are going to install two "dish" antennas that have a stronger db gain to
> see if the signal can be improved to an acceptable level.
>
> Can we feed the signal into a wireless router at my house so that I will not
> have to run cables? If so, where can I find out how to do this?
>
> Thanks.
>
>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:54:57 -0500, in alt.internet.wireless , George
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>mlsteen1 wrote:
>> My neighbor at our lake house has a satellite internet setup. I told him
>> that I would share the monthly cost if I was able to get an acceptable
>> signal.
>
>
>The real problem you are facing is that because of high latency and
>crappy speeds the 2 way satellite systems are next to useless.

This is not accurate. Sattelite has poor latency which is an issue for
games and similar, and poor upload speed which is an issue if you plan
to use P2P or stream media out. Otherwise it can be perfectl
acceptable.

>> Using an Orinoco card, Buffalo Air Station antenna, and Network Stumbler we
>> were able to get a signal that varied from "excellent" to "no signal". He is
>> currently using WEP for security. If we switch to WPA, would it have any
>> effect on signal strength?

No, signal strength isn't affected by encryption.

>> We are going to install two "dish" antennas that have a stronger db gain to
>> see if the signal can be improved to an acceptable level.
>>
>> Can we feed the signal into a wireless router at my house so that I will not
>> have to run cables? If so, where can I find out how to do this?

Sure. You'd need two APs in your house, one in client mode and the
other in normal AP mode. I guess you'd need different channels for the
two. The 'client mode' one would connect to your friend's AP. The
other would be your in-house AP.

Some APs can be both client and server, but the price you pay for that
is a 50% reduction in speed. This may not matter for you as the speed
is still likely to be much better than your sattelite uplink speed.
Mark McIntyre
--

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Thanks Mark. To set up two APs as you instruct, do I need two wireless
routers? If so, do you have any suggestions as to which models work best?

"Mark McIntyre" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:54:57 -0500, in alt.internet.wireless , George
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>mlsteen1 wrote:
>>> My neighbor at our lake house has a satellite internet setup. I told him
>>> that I would share the monthly cost if I was able to get an acceptable
>>> signal.
>>
>>
>>The real problem you are facing is that because of high latency and
>>crappy speeds the 2 way satellite systems are next to useless.
>
> This is not accurate. Sattelite has poor latency which is an issue for
> games and similar, and poor upload speed which is an issue if you plan
> to use P2P or stream media out. Otherwise it can be perfectl
> acceptable.
>
>>> Using an Orinoco card, Buffalo Air Station antenna, and Network Stumbler
>>> we
>>> were able to get a signal that varied from "excellent" to "no signal".
>>> He is
>>> currently using WEP for security. If we switch to WPA, would it have any
>>> effect on signal strength?
>
> No, signal strength isn't affected by encryption.
>
>>> We are going to install two "dish" antennas that have a stronger db gain
>>> to
>>> see if the signal can be improved to an acceptable level.
>>>
>>> Can we feed the signal into a wireless router at my house so that I will
>>> not
>>> have to run cables? If so, where can I find out how to do this?
>
> Sure. You'd need two APs in your house, one in client mode and the
> other in normal AP mode. I guess you'd need different channels for the
> two. The 'client mode' one would connect to your friend's AP. The
> other would be your in-house AP.
>
> Some APs can be both client and server, but the price you pay for that
> is a 50% reduction in speed. This may not matter for you as the speed
> is still likely to be much better than your sattelite uplink speed.
> Mark McIntyre
> --
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

George wrote:

> mlsteen1 wrote:
>> My neighbor at our lake house has a satellite internet setup. I told him
>> that I would share the monthly cost if I was able to get an acceptable
>> signal.
>
>
> The real problem you are facing is that because of high latency and
> crappy speeds the 2 way satellite systems are next to useless.
>
Not at all. The 2-way satellite systems are slightly better than dial-up.
I'm using one at this moment, in exactly the way George is suggesting. If
you want to download 5 or 10 MB, or even 100MB, they're vastly better, but
latency makes ordinary browsing much like using a 56Kb phone line. If you
get up over 100MB you tend to run into "Fair Access Plans", which means
they'll throttle your download speed.

>> Using an Orinoco card, Buffalo Air Station antenna, and Network Stumbler
>> we were able to get a signal that varied from "excellent" to "no signal".
>> He is currently using WEP for security. If we switch to WPA, would it
>> have any effect on signal strength?

No.

>> We are going to install two "dish" antennas that have a stronger db gain
>> to see if the signal can be improved to an acceptable level.

Probably. I use a 14dbi dish (about 1' diameter) at my house. I got it
from www.fab-corp.com. It's on a 10' pigtail into a Linksys router. At
the other end, the Linksys router is just sitting in the window - no
external antennas at all, and I get the full 54Mbps signal rate.

> Can we feed the signal into a wireless router at my house so that I will
> not have to run cables? If so, where can I find out how to do this?

You certainly can - again, I do it - but it's not guaranteed to work. I was
told my configuration wouldn't :-) My Linksys WRT54G (V3.x) routers are set
up with Sveasoft Talisman firmware. The one at my house is in WDS mode, and
one antenna (external) points at the base router, the other antenna
distributes the signal in my house. They're not _designed_ to work this
way, but it seems probable that it will work with any dual-antenna WDS
router, as the antenna seems to lock to the strongest signal, and wireless
devices inside my house will always lock to the omni- antenna, and the
router-router connection will always lock to the directional antenna.

It may be possible with other hardware, but this is the only configuration I
know.
--
derek

Thanks Derek. I have an old Linksys WRT51AB that has duel antennas. Would
this work; and, would I use the same firmware as you did?

Think we might start out using a single dish and then only get a second
dish if needed. I saw where Fab-Corp had a 24 dbi die cast directional
antenna for $56. Since there are trees between us, and we are around 300'
apart, we may need the higher gain.

"Derek Broughton" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ddmjc3-(E-Mail Removed)...
> George wrote:
>
>> mlsteen1 wrote:
>>> My neighbor at our lake house has a satellite internet setup. I told him
>>> that I would share the monthly cost if I was able to get an acceptable
>>> signal.
>>
>>
>> The real problem you are facing is that because of high latency and
>> crappy speeds the 2 way satellite systems are next to useless.
>>
> Not at all. The 2-way satellite systems are slightly better than dial-up.
> I'm using one at this moment, in exactly the way George is suggesting. If
> you want to download 5 or 10 MB, or even 100MB, they're vastly better, but
> latency makes ordinary browsing much like using a 56Kb phone line. If you
> get up over 100MB you tend to run into "Fair Access Plans", which means
> they'll throttle your download speed.
>
>>> Using an Orinoco card, Buffalo Air Station antenna, and Network Stumbler
>>> we were able to get a signal that varied from "excellent" to "no
>>> signal".
>>> He is currently using WEP for security. If we switch to WPA, would it
>>> have any effect on signal strength?
>
> No.
>
>>> We are going to install two "dish" antennas that have a stronger db gain
>>> to see if the signal can be improved to an acceptable level.
>
> Probably. I use a 14dbi dish (about 1' diameter) at my house. I got it
> from www.fab-corp.com. It's on a 10' pigtail into a Linksys router. At
> the other end, the Linksys router is just sitting in the window - no
> external antennas at all, and I get the full 54Mbps signal rate.
>
>> Can we feed the signal into a wireless router at my house so that I will
>> not have to run cables? If so, where can I find out how to do this?
>
> You certainly can - again, I do it - but it's not guaranteed to work. I
> was
> told my configuration wouldn't :-) My Linksys WRT54G (V3.x) routers are
> set
> up with Sveasoft Talisman firmware. The one at my house is in WDS mode,
> and
> one antenna (external) points at the base router, the other antenna
> distributes the signal in my house. They're not _designed_ to work this
> way, but it seems probable that it will work with any dual-antenna WDS
> router, as the antenna seems to lock to the strongest signal, and wireless
> devices inside my house will always lock to the omni- antenna, and the
> router-router connection will always lock to the directional antenna.
>
> It may be possible with other hardware, but this is the only configuration
> I
> know.
> --
> derek

mlsteen1 wrote:

> Thanks Derek. I have an old Linksys WRT51AB that has duel antennas. Would
> this work; and, would I use the same firmware as you did?

I shouldn't think so, though it may be possible with _other_ third party
firmware. The big problem is that you can't use the WDS solution with two
randomly selected routers, so Mark's solution - putting a wireless client
and an AP back-to-back at your place, may be just as cheap for you anyway.
>
> Think we might start out using a single dish and then only get a second
> dish if needed. I saw where Fab-Corp had a 24 dbi die cast directional
> antenna for $56.

That's what I did - I put the router in the neighbour's window and installed
the external antenna here, and when it turned out to be perfectly adequate
for my needs, I scrapped the plan to put an antenna on her house.

> Since there are trees between us, and we are around 300'
> apart, we may need the higher gain.

You really may need to consider cutting trees. 300' is practically nothing.
Since my place is off-grid, and even a linksys router is an electrical load
I don't want to use full-time, I sometimes use my laptop connected directly
to the router in the other house, 1000' away. I only get 2-11Mbps that
way, but that's still faster than the Internet connection. However, except
for windows and a couple of small branches there are no other obstacles
between us. Trees are definitely your major problem here.

--
derek

Derek Broughton wrote:
> mlsteen1 wrote:
>
>
>>Thanks Derek. I have an old Linksys WRT51AB that has duel antennas. Would
>>this work; and, would I use the same firmware as you did?
>
>
> I shouldn't think so, though it may be possible with _other_ third party
> firmware. The big problem is that you can't use the WDS solution with two
> randomly selected routers, so Mark's solution - putting a wireless client
> and an AP back-to-back at your place, may be just as cheap for you anyway.
>
>>Think we might start out using a single dish and then only get a second
>>dish if needed. I saw where Fab-Corp had a 24 dbi die cast directional
>>antenna for $56.
>
>
> That's what I did - I put the router in the neighbour's window and installed
> the external antenna here, and when it turned out to be perfectly adequate
> for my needs, I scrapped the plan to put an antenna on her house.
>
>
>>Since there are trees between us, and we are around 300'
>>apart, we may need the higher gain.
>
>
> You really may need to consider cutting trees. 300' is practically nothing.
> Since my place is off-grid, and even a linksys router is an electrical load
> I don't want to use full-time, I sometimes use my laptop connected directly
> to the router in the other house, 1000' away. I only get 2-11Mbps that
> way, but that's still faster than the Internet connection. However, except
> for windows and a couple of small branches there are no other obstacles
> between us. Trees are definitely your major problem here.
>

Here's a list of some sites detailing homebrew antennas (pulled from a
wireless networking newsgroup):

Reflectors:
http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/Ez-10/
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas...reflector.html

Biquad:
http://www.trevormarshall.com/biquad.htm
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~redwood4/
http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/
http://www.saunalahti.fi/elepal/antenna4.html

Can:
http://www.nodomainname.co.uk/cantenna/cantenna.htm
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/CookieCantenna

Yagi:
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/MicroTVAerial

Helical:
http://www.wireless.org.au/~jhecker/helix/
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index...elicalAntennas

Vertical colinear:
http://mobileaccess.de/wlan/download...0-all-inst.pdf
http://www.tux.org/~bball/antenna/

Horn:
http://users.skynet.be/chricat/horn/...avascript.html

Patch:
http://www.lincomatic.com/wireless/w...chantenna.html

Dish:
http://www.weijand.nl/wifi/
http://www.wscicc.org/DishCantenna.htm
http://martybugs.net/wireless/conifermods.cgi

Discone:
http://www.olotwireless.net/catala/discono.htm

Assortments and tests:
http://www.wardrive.net/general/antenna
http://martybugs.net/wireless/antennacomp.cgi
http://reseaucitoyen.be/ancienwiki/index.php?HomeMade
http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/AntennaHowTo
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/has.html

Thanks Derek and Charlie. I looked over the links in your reply Charlie and
it seems fairly simple to make an antenna using an old DirecTv dish I have.

Derek, I went ahead and purchased a Linksys WRT54G. What settings are you
using with the Sevasoft Talisman firmware to get your setup to work with
only the one receiving router?

"Charlie" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:K3%Jf.19489$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> mlsteen1 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Thanks Derek. I have an old Linksys WRT51AB that has duel antennas. Would
>>>this work; and, would I use the same firmware as you did?
>>
>>
>> I shouldn't think so, though it may be possible with _other_ third party
>> firmware. The big problem is that you can't use the WDS solution with
>> two
>> randomly selected routers, so Mark's solution - putting a wireless client
>> and an AP back-to-back at your place, may be just as cheap for you
>> anyway.
>>
>>>Think we might start out using a single dish and then only get a second
>>>dish if needed. I saw where Fab-Corp had a 24 dbi die cast directional
>>>antenna for $56.
>>
>>
>> That's what I did - I put the router in the neighbour's window and
>> installed
>> the external antenna here, and when it turned out to be perfectly
>> adequate
>> for my needs, I scrapped the plan to put an antenna on her house.
>>
>>
>>>Since there are trees between us, and we are around 300' apart, we may
>>>need the higher gain.
>>
>>
>> You really may need to consider cutting trees. 300' is practically
>> nothing. Since my place is off-grid, and even a linksys router is an
>> electrical load
>> I don't want to use full-time, I sometimes use my laptop connected
>> directly
>> to the router in the other house, 1000' away. I only get 2-11Mbps that
>> way, but that's still faster than the Internet connection. However,
>> except
>> for windows and a couple of small branches there are no other obstacles
>> between us. Trees are definitely your major problem here.
>>
>
> Here's a list of some sites detailing homebrew antennas (pulled from a
> wireless networking newsgroup):
>
> Reflectors:
> http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/Ez-10/
> http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas...reflector.html
>
> Biquad:
> http://www.trevormarshall.com/biquad.htm
> http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~redwood4/
> http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/
> http://www.saunalahti.fi/elepal/antenna4.html
>
> Can:
> http://www.nodomainname.co.uk/cantenna/cantenna.htm
> http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html
> http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/CookieCantenna
>
> Yagi:
> http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/MicroTVAerial
>
> Helical:
> http://www.wireless.org.au/~jhecker/helix/
> http://www.seattlewireless.net/index...elicalAntennas
>
> Vertical colinear:
> http://mobileaccess.de/wlan/download...0-all-inst.pdf
> http://www.tux.org/~bball/antenna/
>
> Horn:
> http://users.skynet.be/chricat/horn/...avascript.html
>
> Patch:
> http://www.lincomatic.com/wireless/w...chantenna.html
>
> Dish:
> http://www.weijand.nl/wifi/
> http://www.wscicc.org/DishCantenna.htm
> http://martybugs.net/wireless/conifermods.cgi
>
> Discone:
> http://www.olotwireless.net/catala/discono.htm
>
> Assortments and tests:
> http://www.wardrive.net/general/antenna
> http://martybugs.net/wireless/antennacomp.cgi
> http://reseaucitoyen.be/ancienwiki/index.php?HomeMade
> http://www.seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/AntennaHowTo
> http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/has.html