Need Commercial AP's, Allied Telesys AT-WA7400 ???

Hi All,

I have a customer with d-link AP's in four separate
co-located buildings (hotel rooms). The Building are
all linked (wired) with Ethernet.

The d-link AP's are not working so well. So, I was
going to suggest he replace them with commercial AP's.
Maybe even double the AP coverage in each building too.
(And, you have to have commercial AP's for that.)

Does anyone have any feed back on the Allied Telesys AT-WA7400?

http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...pid=172&lid=52

Anyone have any feedback on them? Any other units you like better?

Many thanks,
-T

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:39:03 GMT, ToddAndMargo
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<b84sj.5655$qw4.3999@trnddc02>:

>I have a customer with d-link AP's in four separate
>co-located buildings (hotel rooms). The Building are
>all linked (wired) with Ethernet.
>
>The d-link AP's are not working so well.

Why not? What's the problem?

>So, I was
>going to suggest he replace them with commercial AP's.

Best to know the problem before trying to fix it. That might be a waste
of money, labor and time.

>Maybe even double the AP coverage in each building too.
>(And, you have to have commercial AP's for that.)

Why?

>Does anyone have any feed back on the Allied Telesys AT-WA7400?
>
> http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...pid=172&lid=52
>
>Anyone have any feedback on them? Any other units you like better?

Cisco Aironet.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

John Navas wrote:

> Why not? What's the problem?

my guess it that most of the coverage is on a fringe
and they have problems with too many users at one time
for their poor $50.00 price tag


>> Maybe even double the AP coverage in each building too.
>> (And, you have to have commercial AP's for that.)
>
> Why?

Too much distance, too many users, too many metal objects
in the way

>
>> Does anyone have any feed back on the Allied Telesys AT-WA7400?
>>
>> http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...pid=172&lid=52
>>
>> Anyone have any feedback on them? Any other units you like better?
>
> Cisco Aironet.

Customer is tired of powering off his AP's all the time
to unjam them (about every 6 days). Are the Aironet's
pretty much jam free?

-T

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:18:23 GMT, ToddAndMargo
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<3J4sj.5662$qw4.2695@trnddc02>:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> Why not? What's the problem?
>
>my guess it that most of the coverage is on a fringe

Better not to guess -- better to do a site survey.

>and they have problems with too many users at one time
>for their poor $50.00 price tag

Users shouldn't be an issue unless they are opening up too many
connections (think peer-to-peer filesharing).

>>> Maybe even double the AP coverage in each building too.
>>> (And, you have to have commercial AP's for that.)
>>
>> Why?
>
>Too much distance, too many users, too many metal objects
>in the way

Again, better to do a site survey than to guess.

>>> Does anyone have any feed back on the Allied Telesys AT-WA7400?
>>>
>>> http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...pid=172&lid=52
>>>
>>> Anyone have any feedback on them? Any other units you like better?
>>
>> Cisco Aironet.
>
>Customer is tired of powering off his AP's all the time
>to unjam them (about every 6 days). Are the Aironet's
>pretty much jam free?

About as good as access points get.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:39:03 GMT, ToddAndMargo
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have a customer with d-link AP's in four separate
>co-located buildings (hotel rooms). The Building are
>all linked (wired) with Ethernet.

One AP per hotel building is not enough. You'll probably need at
least one AP per floor (depending on type of construction).

>The d-link AP's are not working so well.

I'm suprised they work at all. How many walls are you going through
between the AP and the guest's laptop? If it's more than one, you're
going to have problems no matter what hardware you select.

>So, I was
>going to suggest he replace them with commercial AP's.

Good idea, especially since this is a commerical operation.

>Maybe even double the AP coverage in each building too.
>(And, you have to have commercial AP's for that.)

Baloney. I can put a generic junk access point (or wireless router
acting as an access point), next to the most exotic commercial access
point I can find (Sonicwall), and as long as the TX power and antennas
are the same, the range will be very close. In fact, I've done
exactly that to justify using cheapo hardware to customer that
insisted on blowing his budget on acronyms and buzzwords. You may get
a few more feet of range or penetration using commercial quality
hardware, but no way are you going to get double.

>Does anyone have any feed back on the Allied Telesys AT-WA7400?
> http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...pid=172&lid=52
>Anyone have any feedback on them? Any other units you like better?

No experience with this unit. Looking at the specs, it looks like a
dual radio 802.11a and 802.11g access point, with impressive
management and monitoring features. Lots of flexibility and control.
However, nothing in the specs that I can see claims any better range
or penetration. Such a box will certainly make it easier to manage
and troubleshoot, but that's not what you're looking for.

I don't like to make specific recommendations on hardware unless I
know how it's going to be used, the network topology, expected
traffic, number of users, building layout, available expertise, and of
course the size of the budget.

For other vendors, look at: Cisco, 3com, Proxim and Sonicwall. Also
look at "wireless switch" offerings. See:
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/msg/a448ba5fda43d5e5>

Also, please read the Intel Wireless Hotspot Guide that has
disappeared from Intel's web pile and that I've illegally archived
(don't tell Intel) at:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Intel%20HotSpot%20Guide.pdf>
There's a huge amount of good info in there on setting up a WLAN.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

John Navas wrote:

>
> Again, better to do a site survey than to guess.

Thank you for all the answers!

I am going to walk the premises next Tuesday.
Go over their blue prints too.

Question: do you know of a piece of test equipment
I can use to test signal strength of the current
d-link's in the problem areas that the customer
has tagged for me? (I guess I could make
a crude measurement with a laptop.)

Hmmmm. I wonder if all the d-links in the
various (four) buildings are using the same
channels.

The customer may also just need to put UPS'es
on all his AP's: sometimes it is just that easy.

-T

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:18:23 GMT, ToddAndMargo
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Customer is tired of powering off his AP's all the time
>to unjam them (about every 6 days). Are the Aironet's
>pretty much jam free?

No. I have scripts that will crash literally anything. If it doesn't
crash the AP, it will do the same to the router. For example,
starting a file sharing program with hundreds of IP ports (streams)
active, that will run the AP and router out of buffer space. Many of
the WEP cracking tools are also inadvertant AP crashers. If your
system doesn't have any QoS or Bandwidth Management, and you have an
asymmetrical DSL or cable connection, then any user that is uploading
heavily, will saturate the upstream bandwidth. That will cause the
ACK's from downloads to get lost, making downloading slow or
impossible. (Hint: You need Qos).

Incidentally, I have some of my wireless router set to reboot nightly
to avoid such problems. It seems to work and I haven't had any
complaints since I started doing that. Perhaps a $10 digital lamp
timer might be a better fix?

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:47:27 GMT, ToddAndMargo
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Question: do you know of a piece of test equipment
>I can use to test signal strength of the current
>d-link's in the problem areas that the customer
>has tagged for me? (I guess I could make
>a crude measurement with a laptop.)

Netstumbler (for Windoze)

Kismet (for Linux)

<http://www.ekahau.com/?id=4601>

<http://www.aspecto-software.com/rw/applications/wififofum/>
(for a PDA or cell phone running PPC or Windoze Mobile)

<http://www.visiwave.com>

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:47:27 GMT, ToddAndMargo
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<j85sj.5665$qw4.4116@trnddc02>:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> Again, better to do a site survey than to guess.
>
>Thank you for all the answers!

You're welcome.

>I am going to walk the premises next Tuesday.
>Go over their blue prints too.

Good ideas. See
<http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_How_To#Why_and_How_to_do_a_Site_Survey>

>Question: do you know of a piece of test equipment
>I can use to test signal strength of the current
>d-link's in the problem areas that the customer
>has tagged for me? (I guess I could make
>a crude measurement with a laptop.)

<http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi#Site_Survey_Tools>

I find that Network Stumbler on a laptop does a pretty good job.

>Hmmmm. I wonder if all the d-links in the
>various (four) buildings are using the same
>channels.

Very good question. Get the real answer with a site survey.

>The customer may also just need to put UPS'es
>on all his AP's: sometimes it is just that easy.

Along with the rest of the network gear.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>> The d-link AP's are not working so well.
>
> I'm suprised they work at all. How many walls are you going through
> between the AP and the guest's laptop? If it's more than one, you're
> going to have problems no matter what hardware you select.

I am going to do the walk and blue print next Tuesday.
I know there are four buildings (~200 rooms) and that
a couple of them are multistory. I am not sure
if it is a wood or steel (struts, etc.) either.

>> So, I was
>> going to suggest he replace them with commercial AP's.
>
> Good idea, especially since this is a commerical operation.
>
>> Maybe even double the AP coverage in each building too.
>> (And, you have to have commercial AP's for that.)
>
> Baloney. I can put a generic junk access point (or wireless router
> acting as an access point), next to the most exotic commercial access
> point I can find (Sonicwall), and as long as the TX power and antennas
> are the same, the range will be very close. In fact, I've done
> exactly that to justify using cheapo hardware to customer that
> insisted on blowing his budget on acronyms and buzzwords. You may get
> a few more feet of range or penetration using commercial quality
> hardware, but no way are you going to get double.
>
>> Does anyone have any feed back on the Allied Telesys AT-WA7400?
>> http://www.alliedtelesis.com/product...pid=172&lid=52
>> Anyone have any feedback on them? Any other units you like better?
>

The AT-WA7400 is only $300.00. I did not think it would blow the
bank.

I was looking for something that did not get a lot of complaints
from the users and did not jam all the time. Basically, I
was looking at spending a few more dollars to more reliability.

>
> Also, please read the Intel Wireless Hotspot Guide that has
> disappeared from Intel's web pile and that I've illegally archived
> (don't tell Intel) at:
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Intel%20HotSpot%20Guide.pdf>
> There's a huge amount of good info in there on setting up a WLAN.

Thank you!

I am in process of reading it. It is a bit vague in spots.
But, I don't think it was meant for a radio design engineer
like myself. More of a non-techie user. Their convention
hall example applies the closest, but they are not tell me
things like max users per AP, signal strength to avoid
swamping other AP's, etc., etc.. I guess it is time to
start reading the AP's spec's.