Need advice on Motel Wireless Setup

I have a problem. Friend of mine manages a motel with "wireless access
in every room". Problem is that they have wireless access in about 5
rooms, and the other 40 rooms, not so much. The company the motel
owner hired to set it up came and installed the hardware, plugged it
in, connected from the lobby, and pronounced it done. They never came
back, they wouldn't answer calls, and they are now OoB (wonder
why...).
It looks to me like they have a DSL line coming in via a Draytec Vigor
2500 ADSL modem/router. (Provided by the Telco) That is hard wired to
a zcomax XG-2500 wireless router (Alpha). Down the hall in each
direction is a box that contains a fairly plain IC board with what
looks like a wireless PCMCIA card attached to it. Each is attached to
a 2 foot external antenna. (Bravo & Charlie). You can connect to Alpha
from the lobby and for about 3 rooms down the hall in each direction.
You can get a strong signal from Bravo & Charlie in their respective
ends of the hall, but never connect. I notice that the IC board in
those (repeater?) boxes have a RJ-45 LAN port on them with nothing
connected to it.
I have no documentation, no software, and in fact, I had to use my
dremel to cut my way into the "Bravo" box because the screws holding
the lid on had the heads stripped out of them, possibly on purpose.
Is my first step to make a long ethernet cable and hard wire Bravo to
Alpha and see if it starts working?

Thanks, CJon

Me wrote:
> I have a problem. Friend of mine manages a motel with "wireless access
> in every room". Problem is that they have wireless access in about 5
> rooms, and the other 40 rooms, not so much. The company the motel
> owner hired to set it up came and installed the hardware, plugged it
> in, connected from the lobby, and pronounced it done. They never came
> back, they wouldn't answer calls, and they are now OoB (wonder
> why...).
> It looks to me like they have a DSL line coming in via a Draytec Vigor
> 2500 ADSL modem/router. (Provided by the Telco) That is hard wired to
> a zcomax XG-2500 wireless router (Alpha). Down the hall in each
> direction is a box that contains a fairly plain IC board with what
> looks like a wireless PCMCIA card attached to it. Each is attached to
> a 2 foot external antenna. (Bravo & Charlie). You can connect to Alpha
> from the lobby and for about 3 rooms down the hall in each direction.
> You can get a strong signal from Bravo & Charlie in their respective
> ends of the hall, but never connect. I notice that the IC board in
> those (repeater?) boxes have a RJ-45 LAN port on them with nothing
> connected to it.
> I have no documentation, no software, and in fact, I had to use my
> dremel to cut my way into the "Bravo" box because the screws holding
> the lid on had the heads stripped out of them, possibly on purpose.
> Is my first step to make a long ethernet cable and hard wire Bravo to
> Alpha and see if it starts working?
>
> Thanks, CJon

Have you considered an alternative? We used powerline networking at a school
(much faster that the internet pipe, fast enuf for student email or surfing,
only slow for node to node file transfers), and had a bunch of AP/powerline
network connectors that could be plugged in as needed (Handy for temp
classrooms, or new classrooms that were out of the other wireless areas, had
to plug the AP in for power, why not use it for network connection too)..
Seems like it would sure be fast enuf for motel clients...pretty cheap too,
about $200 for AP an powerline network connection.

"Peter Pan" <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>Have you considered an alternative?

While we're talking about alternatives, it seems that most hotels have
existing CATV coax runs to each room. There are systems that
piggyback ethernet on CATV coax cables.
http://www.multilet.com
http://www.coaxsys.com/products/tvnet_c.php

Does anyone know of a cheap CMTS (cable modem termination system) that
is suitable for a hotel, where one can use commodity DOCSIS modems for
each room?

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Peter Pan wrote:
> Me wrote:
>> I have a problem. Friend of mine manages a motel with "wireless
>> access in every room". Problem is that they have wireless access in
>> about 5 rooms, and the other 40 rooms, not so much. The company the
>> motel owner hired to set it up came and installed the hardware,
>> plugged it in, connected from the lobby, and pronounced it done.
>> They never came back, they wouldn't answer calls, and they are now
>> OoB (wonder why...).
>> It looks to me like they have a DSL line coming in via a Draytec
>> Vigor 2500 ADSL modem/router. (Provided by the Telco) That is hard
>> wired to a zcomax XG-2500 wireless router (Alpha). Down the hall in
>> each direction is a box that contains a fairly plain IC board with
>> what looks like a wireless PCMCIA card attached to it. Each is
>> attached to a 2 foot external antenna. (Bravo & Charlie). You can
>> connect to Alpha from the lobby and for about 3 rooms down the hall
>> in each direction. You can get a strong signal from Bravo & Charlie
>> in their respective ends of the hall, but never connect. I notice
>> that the IC board in those (repeater?) boxes have a RJ-45 LAN port
>> on them with nothing connected to it.
>> I have no documentation, no software, and in fact, I had to use my
>> dremel to cut my way into the "Bravo" box because the screws holding
>> the lid on had the heads stripped out of them, possibly on purpose.
>> Is my first step to make a long ethernet cable and hard wire Bravo to
>> Alpha and see if it starts working?
>>
>> Thanks, CJon
>
> Have you considered an alternative? We used powerline networking at a
> school (much faster that the internet pipe, fast enuf for student
> email or surfing, only slow for node to node file transfers), and had
> a bunch of AP/powerline network connectors that could be plugged in
> as needed (Handy for temp classrooms, or new classrooms that were out
> of the other wireless areas, had to plug the AP in for power, why not
> use it for network connection too).. Seems like it would sure be fast
> enuf for motel clients...pretty cheap too, about $200 for AP an
> powerline network connection.

Just an add on to above, My sister bought, and is moving into a new house,
but the metal firewalls, sauna, and whirlpool mess with wireless (tuff place
to have to stay for a few weeks and get this stuff installed .. Netgear
has a new powerline network that does 85Mb (rather than 14Mb on the other
systems).. Heck that's faster than G... The plug in part is $199 (instead of
$149) so it would be up to about $250 a node with an AP (The 85 was
announced in Nov of 2005 see
http://206.82.202.35/About/PressRele.../20051115.aspx and is
currently shipping, they announced a 200Mb system last week
http://206.82.202.35/About/PressRele.../20060626.aspx but
haven't seen it on the shelfs, so it may be vaporware), but heck, 85Mb is
way faster than I ever expected to see, and now I'm rethinking metal hulled
ships and how to get wired/wireless network in a metal box...

Hi, Me,


> It looks to me like they have a DSL line coming in via a Draytec Vigor
> 2500 ADSL modem/router. (Provided by the Telco) That is hard wired to
> a zcomax XG-2500 wireless router (Alpha). Down the hall in each
> direction is a box that contains a fairly plain IC board with what
> looks like a wireless PCMCIA card attached to it. Each is attached to
> a 2 foot external antenna. (Bravo & Charlie). You can connect to Alpha
> from the lobby and for about 3 rooms down the hall in each direction.
> You can get a strong signal from Bravo & Charlie in their respective
> ends of the hall, but never connect. I notice that the IC board in
> those (repeater?) boxes have a RJ-45 LAN port on them with nothing
> connected to it.
> I have no documentation, no software, and in fact, I had to use my
> dremel to cut my way into the "Bravo" box because the screws holding
> the lid on had the heads stripped out of them, possibly on purpose.
> Is my first step to make a long ethernet cable and hard wire Bravo to
> Alpha and see if it starts working?

>From the description, I'd bet a lot that it's this:
http://www.wlansolution.com/ProductD...11+CB3+PLUS+MD

I have two of them, and have not yet succeeded in making them work.

There are lots of more knowledgeable folks here, most of whom will
assert that these will work just fine. The ethernet port is for
configuration; the factory default is either .1 or .2 in the 198.168.1
range. The antenna sounds just like my omni stick.

On the bottom left of the board next to the antenna end of the card you
would see NL-2611 along with other numbers. Documentation, firmware
updates, and drivers are available, and once you've confirmed that's
what you have, if you make these work but just needed more of them, to
help out with the range issues, I've a couple which I'd let go
reasonably :{))

HTH...

L8R

Skip

(E-Mail Removed) (Me) hath wroth:

>Each is attached to
>a 2 foot external antenna. (Bravo & Charlie).

I guess this is an omnidirectional antenna.

>I notice that the IC board in
>those (repeater?) boxes have a RJ-45 LAN port on them with nothing
>connected to it.

Yep. That's a repeater. Bad idea. Repeaters are badly specified in
IEEE 802.11-1999 and implimentation is spotty. The Wi-Fi Alliance
doesn't even certify repeaters to be Wi-Fi compliant:
http://certifications.wi-fi.org/wbcs...ts.php?lang=en
Chances are high that you are having compatibility issues.

My guess(tm) is that these boxes can be reconfigured as access points.
That will work, but you need to run CAT5 from the main router to these
access points. Since there are only two, that's not a major project.
You can use phone line, power line, or CATV coax as a backhaul if
desperate.

>I have no documentation, no software, and in fact,

Is there an FCC ID number on the serial number tag? If so, it can be
identified. A photo (don't post to the newsgroup) can also help
identify the box.

>I had to use my
>dremel to cut my way into the "Bravo" box because the screws holding
>the lid on had the heads stripped out of them, possibly on purpose.

There's not you can do with the insides. All the important stuff is
in the web based configuration.

>Is my first step to make a long ethernet cable and hard wire Bravo to
>Alpha and see if it starts working?

Let's play dollars and cents. If you throw away the two repeaters,
run CAT5 to the router, and replace them with something that works, my
guess is about $250 to $500. What's your time worth working with an
unknown and apparently non-functional box? I suggest you start over.
However, find someone local that has a clue about 2.4GHz systems. You
might have problems with RF going through walls, security issues,
authentication, authorization, neighbors, hackers, etc.
http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi...etup_a_hotspot


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff, Skip and all.
Thanks, this is a start. Enuff so I can tell I'm out of my league.

I think I can at least describe the problem and suggest a workable
solution. That is, junk what's there and find someone who knows
enough to set one up right. One would think that, since "free
wireless in every room" is one of the motel chain's big selling
points, they would have suggestions of folks who can do it right.

My guess is that the motel owner (an absentee) is simply too cheap to
hire somebody competent. Left to her own devices, the manager called
me because I clean up her home machine when her kids get it full of
spies.

I've made my first visit to wireless.wikia.com, and there is lots
there I need to read before proceeding. It is possible I could figure
it out, but it's gonna be one of those "learning experiences" we
blunder into from time to time. I don't mind learning, but I hate to
do it in a business environment, especially someone else's business.

Thanks for your help. Anybody who has other thoughts, please chime
in. I'll check back, and bug you some more after I read through the
website.

Thanx, CJon

Update - Following the advice I received, I collected all the info on
a Senao CB3+ (NL-2611) I could find and went back. The PCB was not
exactly as described by Skip, but close. When I plugged into the LAN
port, I got nothing (a network cable is unplugged) regardless of how I
set the lappy up. I was able to reset it, based on the directions for
the CB3+, but I still couldn't get into the setup page. I can connect
to it, but I can't communicate with it. I can't ping it and a tracert
simply fails.

If I understand what I have read, I would imagine it is configured as
an access point, but I thought after I reset it back to the defaults,
I should be able to get into the web-based utility and set it up. Not
the case.

At this point, the folks at the motel are looking for someone who
knows WiFi and can fix it. I have to agree with them. It is one of
those things that they need done NOW, and while a learning experience
is always good, it is nearly always slow.

Anybody know a good wifi consultant in the Kansas City to Des Moines
corridor?

Thanks for the advice - CJon


On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:30:32 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Me)
wrote:

>I have a problem. Friend of mine manages a motel with "wireless access
>in every room". Problem is that they have wireless access in about 5
>rooms, and the other 40 rooms, not so much. The company the motel
>owner hired to set it up came and installed the hardware, plugged it
>in, connected from the lobby, and pronounced it done. They never came
>back, they wouldn't answer calls, and they are now OoB (wonder
>why...).
>It looks to me like they have a DSL line coming in via a Draytec Vigor
>2500 ADSL modem/router. (Provided by the Telco) That is hard wired to
>a zcomax XG-2500 wireless router (Alpha). Down the hall in each
>direction is a box that contains a fairly plain IC board with what
>looks like a wireless PCMCIA card attached to it. Each is attached to
>a 2 foot external antenna. (Bravo & Charlie). You can connect to Alpha
>from the lobby and for about 3 rooms down the hall in each direction.
>You can get a strong signal from Bravo & Charlie in their respective
>ends of the hall, but never connect. I notice that the IC board in
>those (repeater?) boxes have a RJ-45 LAN port on them with nothing
>connected to it.
>I have no documentation, no software, and in fact, I had to use my
>dremel to cut my way into the "Bravo" box because the screws holding
>the lid on had the heads stripped out of them, possibly on purpose.
>Is my first step to make a long ethernet cable and hard wire Bravo to
>Alpha and see if it starts working?
>
>Thanks, CJon

Are you sure of the:

(1) IP address of the Senao?

(2) PC port being correctly configured for the same netblock?


On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:07:25 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Me) wrote
in <(E-Mail Removed)>:

>Update - Following the advice I received, I collected all the info on
>a Senao CB3+ (NL-2611) I could find and went back. The PCB was not
>exactly as described by Skip, but close. When I plugged into the LAN
>port, I got nothing (a network cable is unplugged) regardless of how I
>set the lappy up. I was able to reset it, based on the directions for
>the CB3+, but I still couldn't get into the setup page. I can connect
>to it, but I can't communicate with it. I can't ping it and a tracert
>simply fails.
>
>If I understand what I have read, I would imagine it is configured as
>an access point, but I thought after I reset it back to the defaults,
>I should be able to get into the web-based utility and set it up. Not
>the case.
>
>At this point, the folks at the motel are looking for someone who
>knows WiFi and can fix it. I have to agree with them. It is one of
>those things that they need done NOW, and while a learning experience
>is always good, it is nearly always slow.
>
>Anybody know a good wifi consultant in the Kansas City to Des Moines
>corridor?
>
>Thanks for the advice - CJon
>
>
>On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:30:32 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Me)
>wrote:
>
>>I have a problem. Friend of mine manages a motel with "wireless access
>>in every room". Problem is that they have wireless access in about 5
>>rooms, and the other 40 rooms, not so much. The company the motel
>>owner hired to set it up came and installed the hardware, plugged it
>>in, connected from the lobby, and pronounced it done. They never came
>>back, they wouldn't answer calls, and they are now OoB (wonder
>>why...).
>>It looks to me like they have a DSL line coming in via a Draytec Vigor
>>2500 ADSL modem/router. (Provided by the Telco) That is hard wired to
>>a zcomax XG-2500 wireless router (Alpha). Down the hall in each
>>direction is a box that contains a fairly plain IC board with what
>>looks like a wireless PCMCIA card attached to it. Each is attached to
>>a 2 foot external antenna. (Bravo & Charlie). You can connect to Alpha
>>from the lobby and for about 3 rooms down the hall in each direction.
>>You can get a strong signal from Bravo & Charlie in their respective
>>ends of the hall, but never connect. I notice that the IC board in
>>those (repeater?) boxes have a RJ-45 LAN port on them with nothing
>>connected to it.
>>I have no documentation, no software, and in fact, I had to use my
>>dremel to cut my way into the "Bravo" box because the screws holding
>>the lid on had the heads stripped out of them, possibly on purpose.
>>Is my first step to make a long ethernet cable and hard wire Bravo to
>>Alpha and see if it starts working?
>>
>>Thanks, CJon

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

John,
Good to see you. Haven't talked to you since dcom.modems years ago.

To answer you, No, and No. I'm not even positive it is a Senao. It
is a PCB in a metal wall box, similar, but not identical to what Skip
described on 7/31. I think I'll take a photo and post a link to it.
Maybe you or someone else will recognize it.

I did a hardware reset as described in the manual for the NL-2611 I
downloaded, and it did clear the name of "Bravo" to now be "Wireless",
but my attempts to access it at it's default of 192.168.1.1 failed
completely. I show a strong (100%) signal, but no communication.

Two questions:
1. Would the setting from bridge to access point survive the hardware
reset?
2. Would an assigned IP also survive the hardware reset?

My thought was "No" to both, but if that were the case, shouldn't I be
able to connect to the (now bridge) at its default after the reset?

Thanks, CJon

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:55:00 GMT, John Navas
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Are you sure of the:
>
>(1) IP address of the Senao?
>
>(2) PC port being correctly configured for the same netblock?
>
>
>On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 00:07:25 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Me) wrote
>in <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>>Update - Following the advice I received, I collected all the info on
>>a Senao CB3+ (NL-2611) I could find and went back. The PCB was not
>>exactly as described by Skip, but close. When I plugged into the LAN
>>port, I got nothing (a network cable is unplugged) regardless of how I
>>set the lappy up. I was able to reset it, based on the directions for
>>the CB3+, but I still couldn't get into the setup page. I can connect
>>to it, but I can't communicate with it. I can't ping it and a tracert
>>simply fails.
>>
>>If I understand what I have read, I would imagine it is configured as
>>an access point, but I thought after I reset it back to the defaults,
>>I should be able to get into the web-based utility and set it up. Not
>>the case.
>>
>>At this point, the folks at the motel are looking for someone who
>>knows WiFi and can fix it. I have to agree with them. It is one of
>>those things that they need done NOW, and while a learning experience
>>is always good, it is nearly always slow.
>>
>>Anybody know a good wifi consultant in the Kansas City to Des Moines
>>corridor?
>>
>>Thanks for the advice - CJon
>>
>>
>>On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 03:30:32 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Me)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I have a problem. Friend of mine manages a motel with "wireless access
>>>in every room". Problem is that they have wireless access in about 5
>>>rooms, and the other 40 rooms, not so much. The company the motel
>>>owner hired to set it up came and installed the hardware, plugged it
>>>in, connected from the lobby, and pronounced it done. They never came
>>>back, they wouldn't answer calls, and they are now OoB (wonder
>>>why...).
>>>It looks to me like they have a DSL line coming in via a Draytec Vigor
>>>2500 ADSL modem/router. (Provided by the Telco) That is hard wired to
>>>a zcomax XG-2500 wireless router (Alpha). Down the hall in each
>>>direction is a box that contains a fairly plain IC board with what
>>>looks like a wireless PCMCIA card attached to it. Each is attached to
>>>a 2 foot external antenna. (Bravo & Charlie). You can connect to Alpha
>>>from the lobby and for about 3 rooms down the hall in each direction.
>>>You can get a strong signal from Bravo & Charlie in their respective
>>>ends of the hall, but never connect. I notice that the IC board in
>>>those (repeater?) boxes have a RJ-45 LAN port on them with nothing
>>>connected to it.
>>>I have no documentation, no software, and in fact, I had to use my
>>>dremel to cut my way into the "Bravo" box because the screws holding
>>>the lid on had the heads stripped out of them, possibly on purpose.
>>>Is my first step to make a long ethernet cable and hard wire Bravo to
>>>Alpha and see if it starts working?
>>>
>>>Thanks, CJon
>
>--
>Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
>John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
>Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>