My Network Places hangs

I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router.
Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC
can ping the others.

But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used
to).

On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then
choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to
Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the
workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the shares
on the other computers.

I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols. I've
tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
MBD

In article <7de101c484e1$4aaac4b0$(E-Mail Removed)>, MBD says...

> I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router.
> Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC
> can ping the others.

> But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used
> to).

> On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then
> choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to
> Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the
> workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the shares
> on the other computers.

> I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols. I've
> tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP.

> Any ideas?

Go back to just TCP/IP; use the 'KISS' principle. If you have ICS, just make
sure that you don't bind shares to the TCP/IP protocol on the ICS adapter;
that's the one that goes to the Internet. Shares should only be bound to
local adapters; never to an Internet adapter.

On the Me, in Network Properties, seek out the "File and printer sharing for
Microsoft Networks", and disable the "browse master". One of the XP
computers will want to be the "browser master"; and it is best to not have
the Windows Me contending for that honor.

I don't have any Windows XP, or Windows 2K computers on my LAN, but I
disable browse master on the Windows ME computer with less 'up time'; let
the Windows Me computer which is on most often, because of running an MTA,
take on that job.

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

Thanks for the tips - I've tried them all and it still
hangs. I'm beginning to wonder about my NIC. Is it
possible for a NIC to work enough to browse the internet,
but still be broken enough to not browse the workgroup?
Two weeks ago a lightning strike nearby caused one of my
other computer's NICS to completely fail. Maybe it
affected this one.

Otherwise, I'm at the end of my options - seems like I've
tried everything.

MBD

>-----Original Message-----
>In article <7de101c484e1$4aaac4b0$(E-Mail Removed)>, MBD
says...
>
>> I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router.
>> Everything works fine - all have internet access, each
PC
>> can ping the others.
>
>> But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they
used
>> to).
>
>> On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then
>> choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to
>> Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the
>> workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the
shares
>> on the other computers.
>
>> I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols.
I've
>> tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP.
>
>> Any ideas?
>
>Go back to just TCP/IP; use the 'KISS' principle. If you
have ICS, just make
>sure that you don't bind shares to the TCP/IP protocol on
the ICS adapter;
>that's the one that goes to the Internet. Shares should
only be bound to
>local adapters; never to an Internet adapter.
>
>On the Me, in Network Properties, seek out the "File and
printer sharing for
>Microsoft Networks", and disable the "browse master". One
of the XP
>computers will want to be the "browser master"; and it is
best to not have
>the Windows Me contending for that honor.
>
>I don't have any Windows XP, or Windows 2K computers on
my LAN, but I
>disable browse master on the Windows ME computer with
less 'up time'; let
>the Windows Me computer which is on most often, because
of running an MTA,
>take on that job.
>
>--
>Norman
>~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
>~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
>~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint
>.
>

I would recommend you move the NIC to another slot and plug it into a
different port on the hub/switch/router with a different cable. If that does
not solve the problem then I would replace the NIC.

Carey

"MBD" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8edc01c4859c$63e7bb20$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks for the tips - I've tried them all and it still
> hangs. I'm beginning to wonder about my NIC. Is it
> possible for a NIC to work enough to browse the internet,
> but still be broken enough to not browse the workgroup?
> Two weeks ago a lightning strike nearby caused one of my
> other computer's NICS to completely fail. Maybe it
> affected this one.
>
> Otherwise, I'm at the end of my options - seems like I've
> tried everything.
>
> MBD
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>In article <7de101c484e1$4aaac4b0$(E-Mail Removed)>, MBD
> says...
>>
>>> I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router.
>>> Everything works fine - all have internet access, each
> PC
>>> can ping the others.
>>
>>> But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they
> used
>>> to).
>>
>>> On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then
>>> choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to
>>> Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the
>>> workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the
> shares
>>> on the other computers.
>>
>>> I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols.
> I've
>>> tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP.
>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>>Go back to just TCP/IP; use the 'KISS' principle. If you
> have ICS, just make
>>sure that you don't bind shares to the TCP/IP protocol on
> the ICS adapter;
>>that's the one that goes to the Internet. Shares should
> only be bound to
>>local adapters; never to an Internet adapter.
>>
>>On the Me, in Network Properties, seek out the "File and
> printer sharing for
>>Microsoft Networks", and disable the "browse master". One
> of the XP
>>computers will want to be the "browser master"; and it is
> best to not have
>>the Windows Me contending for that honor.
>>
>>I don't have any Windows XP, or Windows 2K computers on
> my LAN, but I
>>disable browse master on the Windows ME computer with
> less 'up time'; let
>>the Windows Me computer which is on most often, because
> of running an MTA,
>>take on that job.
>>
>>--
>>Norman
>>~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
>>~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
>>~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint
>>.
>>

You are using a concept called shotgunning to attempt the
repair. First you speculate that this might be a problem. So
then you change that. It often leads to confusion and
sometimes complicates the problems - makes more things
non-working.

Some of the unknowns - configurations in each Windows OS,
NIC hardware, motherboard of each computer, network cable,
hub, AC electric, etc. So we first simplify.

Eliminate the hub and networking cable. Simply move two
computers together, plug into same wall receptacle, and
connect using an ethernet cross over cable - sold most
everywhere including Radio Shack.

Now load the manufacturers' comprehensive diagnostics for
the NIC. Any responsible computer manufacturer provides them
for free on their web site (which immediately exposes some
computer manufacturers). If they don't have comprehensive
diagnostics, then you must download them from the NIC
manufacturer. We will test the NIC and computer hardware
without other unknown and complicating variables such as
Windows, the hub, etc. First the computer must talk to and
echo back everything correct from the NIC. Then the NICs can
be setup so that one talks to all others. This last test
assumes all NICs are from the same manufacturer. Notice why
we want NICs from same manufacturer.

For example, one NIC worked just fine until the last
intertalking test. Only then did that NIC fail after messages
exceeded a certain size. You would be spitting in the wind
trying to find that problem using the procedure you are
currently using.

Once we have performed that test, then we have proven
hardware, cabling and NICs are OK. Lets expand that
solution. Either have those NICs talk to each other using
Windows - not other changes. Or put the hub into that
'adjacent computer' network and test the hub using
comprehensive diagnostics 'intertalk' test.

This is how we locate and solve problems. We confirm each
part by breaking the problem down into individual parts.
First we confirm hardware before we even begin to look as
software - drivers or Windows configuration. And yes, by
plugging both computers or hub into same wall receptacle (not
just receptacles in same room or into surge protectors), then
we also eliminate a building wide electric variable.

But I repeat - don't even try to fix anything yet. You want
to take the problem step by step. Collect information. Of
course you observed those LED lights adjacent to each ethernet
wire connection? They lit (at both ends) when cables were
properly connected and extinguished on disconnect. Again,
notice the concept. We first collect information. Only after
sufficient information to suspect a problem, do we then repair
that problem. Don't try to solve using a previously
recommended solution called shotgunning.

MBD wrote:
> Thanks for the tips - I've tried them all and it still
> hangs. I'm beginning to wonder about my NIC. Is it
> possible for a NIC to work enough to browse the internet,
> but still be broken enough to not browse the workgroup?
> Two weeks ago a lightning strike nearby caused one of my
> other computer's NICS to completely fail. Maybe it
> affected this one.
>
> Otherwise, I'm at the end of my options - seems like I've
> tried everything.
>
> MBD

In article <8edc01c4859c$63e7bb20$(E-Mail Removed)>, MBD says...

> Thanks for the tips - I've tried them all and it still
> hangs. I'm beginning to wonder about my NIC. Is it
> possible for a NIC to work enough to browse the internet,
> but still be broken enough to not browse the workgroup?
> Two weeks ago a lightning strike nearby caused one of my
> other computer's NICS to completely fail. Maybe it
> affected this one.

> Otherwise, I'm at the end of my options - seems like I've
> tried everything.

Yes, it is possible. I used to work for HP as a board repair technician. I
saw partial failure modes, including drivers which could loop back a signal
through a test hood, and thus pass a performance test, yet fail to drive a
signal down the maximum length of wire specified for the product; the board
would pass our production test, yet fail in the field.

Follow Carey's advice, or just buy the board. They are pretty cheap these
days.

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

I have now ruled out the NIC, router, and cables. I have
reinstalled TCP/IP and NIC drivers. I've tried every
combination of WINS resolution, browse master, file and
print sharing, etc. I have renamed the workgroup and
machines.

The "bad" computer is not shutting down correctly (it
freezes and I have to shut it off manually), and it
sometimes doesn't boot up. I'm wondering if it is:
1. The motherboard going bad (there was a lightning strike)
2. A corrupt Windows ME file
3. A bad video card or driver

MBD


>-----Original Message-----
>In article <7de101c484e1$4aaac4b0$(E-Mail Removed)>, MBD
says...
>
>> I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router.
>> Everything works fine - all have internet access, each
PC
>> can ping the others.
>
>> But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they
used
>> to).
>
>> On the ME machine, when I run My Network Places, then
>> choose Entire Network, it freezes and I have to
>> Ctrl/Alt/Del to get out of it. It never shows the
>> workgroup or any other computers. Yet it lists the
shares
>> on the other computers.
>
>> I've tried deleting and reinstalling the protocols.
I've
>> tried NetBEUI and IPX, as well as TCP/IP.
>
>> Any ideas?
>
>Go back to just TCP/IP; use the 'KISS' principle. If you
have ICS, just make
>sure that you don't bind shares to the TCP/IP protocol on
the ICS adapter;
>that's the one that goes to the Internet. Shares should
only be bound to
>local adapters; never to an Internet adapter.
>
>On the Me, in Network Properties, seek out the "File and
printer sharing for
>Microsoft Networks", and disable the "browse master". One
of the XP
>computers will want to be the "browser master"; and it is
best to not have
>the Windows Me contending for that honor.
>
>I don't have any Windows XP, or Windows 2K computers on
my LAN, but I
>disable browse master on the Windows ME computer with
less 'up time'; let
>the Windows Me computer which is on most often, because
of running an MTA,
>take on that job.
>
>--
>Norman
>~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
>~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
>~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint
>.
>

In article <9a5501c486b0$e9080700$(E-Mail Removed)>, MBD says...

> I have now ruled out the NIC, router, and cables. I have
> reinstalled TCP/IP and NIC drivers. I've tried every
> combination of WINS resolution, browse master, file and
> print sharing, etc. I have renamed the workgroup and
> machines.

Don't even mess with the WINS Resolution stuff; it isn't necessary outside
of a WinNT server/client network. In the standard Windows peer-to-peer
network, it breaks things when activated.

In a pure TCP/IP LAN, you don't need to mess with much. Your adapter should
have the TCP/IP protocol bound to it. Otherwise nothing will work.

Your TCP/IP protocol only needs a few configured settings. Bindings,
Advanced, NetBIOS, and WINS Configuration tabs should be left to the
defaults.

The remaining tabs depend upon your network method of assigning IP
addresses.

> The "bad" computer is not shutting down correctly (it
> freezes and I have to shut it off manually), and it
> sometimes doesn't boot up. I'm wondering if it is:
> 1. The motherboard going bad (there was a lightning strike)
> 2. A corrupt Windows ME file
> 3. A bad video card or driver

Okay, back to the beginning. You stated:

> I have a 3 PC network (ME, XP, XP) with a router.
> Everything works fine - all have internet access, each PC
> can ping the others.

That tells me that all NICs, cables, and the router are working. My example
of a 'partial failure' applied to a specific case where the test involved
looping back a signal on a test hood; no data cable to a remote device. The
board in question passed local loopback, but failed on a cable connection to
a remote device.

You can ping all computers from every other computer, and you can reache the
Internet from each computer. If your NIC failure mode was as I described,
you could not have ping, or Internet.

You also stated:

> But the XP machines can't see the ME PC anymore (they used
> to).

Something has changed. There are only a few things necessary for all
computers to see the other computers:

All in the same IP address range; including having the same netmask. Pinging
doesn't require this; I know, I tested it. I could ping a 192.168.3.0/24
computer from a 192.168.102.0/24 computer on the same hub.

All in the same Workgroup. Easy to test. Put one computer of of the
workgroup, and try finding it. The concept of the Workgroup was to allow the
topology of connected computers to be changed without changing the
underlying network topology.

No two computers can have the same name.

Some computer on the LAN must be the 'browse master'; but not all of them
can be. In a mix of WinNT kernel computers (NT/2K/XP) and Win9x kernel
computers (95/98/Me), the Win9x computers should not be allowed to be browse
master; nearly as I can tell. I would start by disabling browse master on
the Windows Me computer, and setting to 'automatic' on the Windows XP
computers. If necessary, I would calculate which Windows XP computer is on
the most, and only enable it for that computer; at least for long enough to
see if that helped matters.

The Windows Me computer doesn't need to be the browse master. If it is the
only one on, there will be nothing to browse. If any of the Windows XP
computers comes up, and has the browse master set to 'automatic', it should
be become the browse master.

Try this:

Identify the components in the list for each computer on your network. Just
a simple list will do; like this (my two computers as an example):

Megumi:

Client for Microsoft Networks
Dial-up Adapter
HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter
LapLink USB Network CAble
TCP/IP -> Dial-Up Adapter
TCP/IP -> HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter
TCP/IP -> LapLink USB Network CAble
USB-USB Network Bridge -> HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter
USB-USB Network Bridge -> LapLink USB Network CAble
File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks

Naomi:

Client for Microsoft Networks
Dial-up Adapter
HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter
TCP/IP -> Dial-Up Adapter
TCP/IP -> HP EN1207D-TX PCI 10/100 Fast Ethernet Adapter
File and printer sharing for Microsoft Networks

Post that (I used the actual NetBIOS names of the computers, but you can
supply a generic name, if you wish, and you can relate the next step
correctly to the actual computers, when I submit it), and I will take it to
the next step.

Don't worry about what the stuff means, don't worry about revealing any
"national secrets"; your adapters are not unique. I will attempt to prune
the lists down to what we are really concerned with when I see them.

Hint: There is only one 'hardware' adapter in each of my lists I would look
at (the 'hardware' adapter is the one with the icon of a printed circuit
assembly (PCA); in Megumi, only two of the three are physical PCAs.)

--
Norman
~Win dain a lotica, En vai tu ri, Si lo ta
~Fin dein a loluca, En dragu a sei lain
~Vi fa-ru les shutai am, En riga-lint

So what did the manufacturer's comprehensive diagnostics
report for the NICs and for other hardware components?
Especially important, was the comprehensive diagnostic used to
transfer data between NICs in those large blocks that tend to
find intermittents? What does the Device Manager display?
For example how were the NIC, router, and cables eliminated as
potential reasons for failure? By shotgunning or by using
trial and error which often does not detect intermittents?
Were previously cited comprehensive diagnostics used?

No one can answer your question if facts are rationed. Is
motherboard going bad? Is power supply slowly failing? Each
has a specific and simple procedure to answer that question.
Tasks to perform are numerous which is why some basic facts
first need be provided - to limit the list of tasks to what is
really important.

Is it a hardware or software problem? I don't even see
where that question was even answered. ?All I see are
examples of shotgunning.

MBD wrote:
> I have now ruled out the NIC, router, and cables. I have
> reinstalled TCP/IP and NIC drivers. I've tried every
> combination of WINS resolution, browse master, file and
> print sharing, etc. I have renamed the workgroup and
> machines.
>
> The "bad" computer is not shutting down correctly (it
> freezes and I have to shut it off manually), and it
> sometimes doesn't boot up. I'm wondering if it is:
> 1. The motherboard going bad (there was a lightning strike)
> 2. A corrupt Windows ME file
> 3. A bad video card or driver
>
> MBD

At the risk of another lecture...

Mfg. diagnostics - passed all.
The NIC, router, and cables are eliminated because I
replaced all of them.
The device manager states everything is ok and working
properly.

I have renamed the workgroup and the computers. The other
2 machines show the offending ME computer and reflect the
new name, but when "properties" is chosen, it says it
can't access the computer.

So, the problem remains: the ME computer freezes
when "Entire Network" is chosen from the My Network
Neighborhood window. A few times it has returned the
message "Cannot access the network."

I have no problems accessing the router or the DSL
internet from any computer, including the ME one.

The computer also has problems shutting down. It often
hangs - when I press ctl-alt-del it shows rundll32 as the
only program remaining.

Thanks for any advice.

MBD

>-----Original Message-----
> So what did the manufacturer's comprehensive diagnostics
>report for the NICs and for other hardware components?
>Especially important, was the comprehensive diagnostic
used to
>transfer data between NICs in those large blocks that
tend to
>find intermittents? What does the Device Manager
display?
>For example how were the NIC, router, and cables
eliminated as
>potential reasons for failure? By shotgunning or by using
>trial and error which often does not detect
intermittents?
>Were previously cited comprehensive diagnostics used?
>
> No one can answer your question if facts are rationed.
Is
>motherboard going bad? Is power supply slowly failing?
Each
>has a specific and simple procedure to answer that
question.
>Tasks to perform are numerous which is why some basic
facts
>first need be provided - to limit the list of tasks to
what is
>really important.
>
> Is it a hardware or software problem? I don't even see
>where that question was even answered. ?All I see are
>examples of shotgunning.
>
>MBD wrote:
>> I have now ruled out the NIC, router, and cables. I
have
>> reinstalled TCP/IP and NIC drivers. I've tried every
>> combination of WINS resolution, browse master, file and
>> print sharing, etc. I have renamed the workgroup and
>> machines.
>>
>> The "bad" computer is not shutting down correctly (it
>> freezes and I have to shut it off manually), and it
>> sometimes doesn't boot up. I'm wondering if it is:
>> 1. The motherboard going bad (there was a lightning
strike)
>> 2. A corrupt Windows ME file
>> 3. A bad video card or driver
>>
>> MBD
>.
>