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MN-500 is easily crackable -security bug

 
 
michael
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Posts: n/a

 
      01-22-2004, 01:26 AM
Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
into?

I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
my network.
I guess there is no security.



 
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Jason Tsang
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      01-22-2004, 01:44 AM
Can you provide examples?

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx

"michael" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:239801c3e08f$2a060a90$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
> into?
>
> I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
> enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
> my network.
> I guess there is no security.
>
>
>



 
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Chris H.
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      01-22-2004, 02:16 AM
Actually what you're seeing is the firewall doing its job by blocking those
attempts. Check out this information about the firewall log and how to
interpret the items:
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/br..._log_file.mspx
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"michael" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:239801c3e08f$2a060a90$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
> into?
>
> I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
> enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
> my network.
> I guess there is no security.
>
>
>



 
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Jason Tsang
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      01-22-2004, 03:34 AM
Chris... the firewall and the base station log have nothing to do with port
forwarding...

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx

"Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Actually what you're seeing is the firewall doing its job by blocking

those
> attempts. Check out this information about the firewall log and how to
> interpret the items:
>

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/br..._log_file.mspx
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
> "michael" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:239801c3e08f$2a060a90$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
> > into?
> >
> > I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
> > enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
> > my network.
> > I guess there is no security.
> >
> >
> >

>
>



 
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Chris H.
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      01-22-2004, 03:38 AM
I know, Jason. I should have said "probably" are seeing. If the firewall
is on, how is someone accessing and changing the port forwarding?
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"Jason Tsang" <jason-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Chris... the firewall and the base station log have nothing to do with

port
> forwarding...
>
> --
> Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP
>
> Find out about the MS MVP Program -
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx
>
> "Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Actually what you're seeing is the firewall doing its job by blocking

> those
> > attempts. Check out this information about the firewall log and how to
> > interpret the items:
> >

>

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/br..._log_file.mspx
> > --
> > Chris H.
> > Microsoft Windows MVP
> > Associate Expert
> > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> >
> > "michael" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:239801c3e08f$2a060a90$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
> > > into?
> > >
> > > I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
> > > enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
> > > my network.
> > > I guess there is no security.
> > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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Jason Tsang
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      01-22-2004, 03:51 AM
Upnp apps (Win/MSN Messenger and other apps)?

You are assuming external (to the LAN) users are adding it (which is
unlikely in this scenerio)
You haven't ruled out internal users or programs (which is the far more
likely scenerio here)

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx

"Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> I know, Jason. I should have said "probably" are seeing. If the firewall
> is on, how is someone accessing and changing the port forwarding?
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
> "Jason Tsang" <jason-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Chris... the firewall and the base station log have nothing to do with

> port
> > forwarding...
> >
> > --
> > Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP
> >
> > Find out about the MS MVP Program -
> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx
> >
> > "Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Actually what you're seeing is the firewall doing its job by blocking

> > those
> > > attempts. Check out this information about the firewall log and how

to
> > > interpret the items:
> > >

> >

>

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/br..._log_file.mspx
> > > --
> > > Chris H.
> > > Microsoft Windows MVP
> > > Associate Expert
> > > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> > >
> > > "michael" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:239801c3e08f$2a060a90$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
> > > > into?
> > > >
> > > > I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
> > > > enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
> > > > my network.
> > > > I guess there is no security.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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Chris H.
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      01-22-2004, 04:06 AM
Or, the machine was accessed during a period when the firewall was down and
someone is controlling the machine externally?
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"Jason Tsang" <jason-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Upnp apps (Win/MSN Messenger and other apps)?
>
> You are assuming external (to the LAN) users are adding it (which is
> unlikely in this scenerio)
> You haven't ruled out internal users or programs (which is the far more
> likely scenerio here)
>
> --
> Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP
>
> Find out about the MS MVP Program -
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx
>
> "Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I know, Jason. I should have said "probably" are seeing. If the

firewall
> > is on, how is someone accessing and changing the port forwarding?
> > --
> > Chris H.
> > Microsoft Windows MVP
> > Associate Expert
> > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> >
> > "Jason Tsang" <jason-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Chris... the firewall and the base station log have nothing to do with

> > port
> > > forwarding...
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP
> > >
> > > Find out about the MS MVP Program -
> > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx
> > >
> > > "Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Actually what you're seeing is the firewall doing its job by

blocking
> > > those
> > > > attempts. Check out this information about the firewall log and how

> to
> > > > interpret the items:
> > > >
> > >

> >

>

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/br..._log_file.mspx
> > > > --
> > > > Chris H.
> > > > Microsoft Windows MVP
> > > > Associate Expert
> > > > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> > > >
> > > > "michael" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:239801c3e08f$2a060a90$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
> > > > > into?
> > > > >
> > > > > I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
> > > > > enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
> > > > > my network.
> > > > > I guess there is no security.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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Jason Tsang
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      01-22-2004, 04:36 AM
The OP didn't mention anything about a firewall issue, or a firewall logging
issue, so I cannot see how you made that initial assumption in your posting.

An external network (ie Internet) user cannot make UPnP port forward
requests to the router, or log into the base station to setup port forwards.

If the person has their network compromised in such a way that port forwards
are still being added, it's still an internal attack to the network if port
forward entries are being created. The initial port foward would have come
from the internal network, and subsequent requests made through this port
forward won't be logged by the base station's log.

The only port fowarding request would be logged is the UPnP entry being
created from inside the network (if that is indeed what is happening). But
that would be an internal (LAN) network request, not an external (Internet)
request

Telling the user that " the firewall doing its job by blocking those
attempts" is just wrong, because that's not what the user is observing. The
user is observing port forwards being created. That's the key here.

--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx

"Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Or, the machine was accessed during a period when the firewall was down

and
> someone is controlling the machine externally?
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
> "Jason Tsang" <jason-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Upnp apps (Win/MSN Messenger and other apps)?
> >
> > You are assuming external (to the LAN) users are adding it (which is
> > unlikely in this scenerio)
> > You haven't ruled out internal users or programs (which is the far more
> > likely scenerio here)
> >
> > --
> > Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP
> >
> > Find out about the MS MVP Program -
> > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx
> >
> > "Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > I know, Jason. I should have said "probably" are seeing. If the

> firewall
> > > is on, how is someone accessing and changing the port forwarding?
> > > --
> > > Chris H.
> > > Microsoft Windows MVP
> > > Associate Expert
> > > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> > >
> > > "Jason Tsang" <jason-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Chris... the firewall and the base station log have nothing to do

with
> > > port
> > > > forwarding...
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP
> > > >
> > > > Find out about the MS MVP Program -
> > > > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx
> > > >
> > > > "Chris H." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > Actually what you're seeing is the firewall doing its job by

> blocking
> > > > those
> > > > > attempts. Check out this information about the firewall log and

how
> > to
> > > > > interpret the items:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >

> >

>

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/br..._log_file.mspx
> > > > > --
> > > > > Chris H.
> > > > > Microsoft Windows MVP
> > > > > Associate Expert
> > > > > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> > > > >
> > > > > "michael" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > > news:239801c3e08f$2a060a90$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > > Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
> > > > > > into?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
> > > > > > enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
> > > > > > my network.
> > > > > > I guess there is no security.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >

> >
> >

>
>



 
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Barb Bowman [MVP-Windows]
Guest
Posts: n/a

 
      01-22-2004, 09:15 AM
If what you are seeing is NOT UPnP forwarding and NOT logs, is your
wireless secured with 128 bit WEP and have you ever changed the
default password, entered a WEP key and changed the default SSID?



On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:26:38 -0800, "michael" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Can someone tell me why this router is so easy to break
>into?
>
>I keep going into port forwarding and seeing someone
>enter particular ports and being forwarded to machines on
>my network.
>I guess there is no security.
>
>


--
Barb Bowman
Expert Zone Columnist
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
MS-MVP (Windows)
 
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