Max DSL speed dropped suddenly

I have had had a stable max DSL service that linesync at 2.6 to 2.8 Meg
(long rural line) for 9 months, the noise figure was typically 3 to 6dB with
the occasional drop.
Yesterday all changed, I found the line sync at about 1.8 Meg (currently
1888kbs) and the noise margin varying from 2 to 12 dB, The line is stable.
My big problem is this has reduced my profile from 2 Meg to 1.5 Meg.

The line has NO audible noise of any kind, once in the past I had some line
crackling (which was fixed) and this only reduced my sync speed a few
hundred kb.

Equipment:
Netgear DG834G Router
Line attenuation reports 62 to 63dB (as before) I think the router does not
show more than 63db but I think I am just on the limit since it flicks 62 to
63dB.
I have not added or changed any pc or phone hardware or software or upgraded
anything.
I have cycled the router power and disconnected/reconnected the router.

Any ideas?

Martin M wrote:
> I have had had a stable max DSL service that linesync at 2.6 to 2.8
> Meg (long rural line) for 9 months, the noise figure was typically
> 3 to 6dB with the occasional drop.
> Yesterday all changed, I found the line sync at about 1.8 Meg
> (currently 1888kbs) and the noise margin varying from 2 to 12 dB,
> The line is stable. My big problem is this has reduced my profile
> from 2 Meg to 1.5 Meg.

Profile, what profile???

What has happened is that the conditions on your line have changed
slightly & the DSLAM has corrected for that change. If the condition,
whatever it maybe is corrected then your speeds will go back up.
Having said that if your line stats are correct I'm suprised that you
did manage a stable connection above 2Mbps in the first place.
>
> The line has NO audible noise of any kind, once in the past I had
> some line crackling (which was fixed) and this only reduced my sync
> speed a few hundred kb.
>
> Equipment:
> Netgear DG834G Router
> Line attenuation reports 62 to 63dB (as before) I think the router
> does not show more than 63db but I think I am just on the limit
> since it flicks 62 to 63dB.
> I have not added or changed any pc or phone hardware or software or
> upgraded anything.
> I have cycled the router power and disconnected/reconnected the
> router.

Don't get hung up with loop loss get worried about SNR, that is the
important thing, having said that 62dB is (once again) high for any
2Mbps service. You say you live at the end of a long rural line,
have any farmers, near you, erected/turned on a electric fence,
turned a grain drier on on their silos (even had a recent case where
the problem was being caused by an electric water treatment device).
You have to look for RF/AM/Electrical noise, possibly inside your
house as well as outside.

Check your filters, yes all of them, here again with the recent
electrical displays the country has been having one (or more) may have
been damaged, the same goes for any electrical equipment in your
house. I hope you can start to see the vast expanse of things that
might have caused the increase in noise, leading to the reduction of
bandwidth which in turn leads to your lower sync speed

But you aren't on any permanent profile & the speed will train up as
well as down when conditions permit it.

As it is I would rather have a rock solid 1.5Mbps connection than a
2Mbps one which dropped out & very much doubt if you'll see any real
difference in any purpose you put your circuit to.

On Tuesday 24 July 2007 10:52 pm, in MID
<(E-Mail Removed)>, Kraftee
(kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk) wrote:
> Martin M wrote:

>> I have had had a stable max DSL service that linesync at 2.6 to 2.8
>> Meg (long rural line) for 9 months, the noise figure was typically
>> 3 to 6dB with the occasional drop.
>> Yesterday all changed, I found the line sync at about 1.8 Meg
>> (currently 1888kbs) and the noise margin varying from 2 to 12 dB,
>> The line is stable. My big problem is this has reduced my profile
>> from 2 Meg to 1.5 Meg.
>
> Profile, what profile???

The BRAS/IP pofile, I suspect !

> What has happened is that the conditions on your line have changed
> slightly & the DSLAM has corrected for that change.

Yup - that profile

--
Ian...

Kraftee wrote:
> Martin M wrote:
>
> Don't get hung up with loop loss get worried about SNR, that is the
> important thing, having said that 62dB is (once again) high for any
> 2Mbps service.

I get a rock solid 3000kbps (gives me a reliable download of 312KBps, which
indicates i have 2500kbps profile), which is a touch better then it synced
before i put an adsl faceplate on my master socket, prior to that is was
getting 100kbps (12.5KBps), all on an attenuation of 63db...........

ADSL LinkDownstreamUpstream
Connection Speed3072 kbps768 kbps
Line Attenuation63.5 db31.5 db
Noise Margin6.4 db7.0 db

Gaz


> Check your filters, yes all of them, here again with the recent
> electrical displays the country has been having one (or more) may have
> been damaged, the same goes for any electrical equipment in your
> house. I hope you can start to see the vast expanse of things that
> might have caused the increase in noise, leading to the reduction of
> bandwidth which in turn leads to your lower sync speed
>
> But you aren't on any permanent profile & the speed will train up as
> well as down when conditions permit it.
>
> As it is I would rather have a rock solid 1.5Mbps connection than a
> 2Mbps one which dropped out & very much doubt if you'll see any real
> difference in any purpose you put your circuit to.

"Kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Martin M wrote:
>> I have had had a stable max DSL service that linesync at 2.6 to 2.8
>> Meg (long rural line) for 9 months, the noise figure was typically
>> 3 to 6dB with the occasional drop.
>> Yesterday all changed, I found the line sync at about 1.8 Meg
>> (currently 1888kbs) and the noise margin varying from 2 to 12 dB,
>> The line is stable. My big problem is this has reduced my profile
>> from 2 Meg to 1.5 Meg.
>
> Profile, what profile???

IP Profile

> What has happened is that the conditions on your line have changed
> slightly & the DSLAM has corrected for that change. If the condition,
> whatever it maybe is corrected then your speeds will go back up. Having
> said that if your line stats are correct I'm suprised that you did manage
> a stable connection above 2Mbps in the first place.
>>
>> The line has NO audible noise of any kind, once in the past I had
>> some line crackling (which was fixed) and this only reduced my sync
>> speed a few hundred kb.
>>
>> Equipment:
>> Netgear DG834G Router
>> Line attenuation reports 62 to 63dB (as before) I think the router
>> does not show more than 63db but I think I am just on the limit
>> since it flicks 62 to 63dB.
>> I have not added or changed any pc or phone hardware or software or
>> upgraded anything.
>> I have cycled the router power and disconnected/reconnected the
>> router.
>
> Don't get hung up with loop loss get worried about SNR, that is the
> important thing, having said that 62dB is (once again) high for any 2Mbps
> service. You say you live at the end of a long rural line, have any
> farmers, near you, erected/turned on a electric fence, turned a grain
> drier on on their silos (even had a recent case where the problem was
> being caused by an electric water treatment device). You have to look for
> RF/AM/Electrical noise, possibly inside your house as well as outside.
>
> Check your filters, yes all of them, here again with the recent electrical
> displays the country has been having one (or more) may have been damaged,
> the same goes for any electrical equipment in your house. I hope you can
> start to see the vast expanse of things that might have caused the
> increase in noise, leading to the reduction of bandwidth which in turn
> leads to your lower sync speed

I only have the one filter, ADSL master adaptor plate on the NTE5 with the
router connected into it and I have disconnected ALL other phone equipment
to test. I will swap it just to be sure. There have been no local electrical
storms in the past week.

> But you aren't on any permanent profile & the speed will train up as well
> as down when conditions permit it.
>
> As it is I would rather have a rock solid 1.5Mbps connection than a 2Mbps
> one which dropped out & very much doubt if you'll see any real difference
> in any purpose you put your circuit to.

File download approx 170 kbps at 1.5Meg, was 235kbps at 2 Meg.

>

What I have noticed is that when the router drops out now it always re-syncs
at a speed that gives a noise figure of 12 dB (then varies below and up to
this number), before after a drop it would always re-sync at a noise figure
of 6dB and then varies below and up to this number. This seems like unusual
behaviour to me since in the past even when I had bad noise on the line and
the router dropped out it always aimed for this 6 dB noise figure at re-sync
with reduced speed obviously.

ian wrote:
> On Tuesday 24 July 2007 10:52 pm, in MID
> <(E-Mail Removed)>, Kraftee
> (kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk) wrote:
>> Martin M wrote:
>
>>> I have had had a stable max DSL service that linesync at 2.6 to
>>> 2.8 Meg (long rural line) for 9 months, the noise figure was
>>> typically 3 to 6dB with the occasional drop.
>>> Yesterday all changed, I found the line sync at about 1.8 Meg
>>> (currently 1888kbs) and the noise margin varying from 2 to 12 dB,
>>> The line is stable. My big problem is this has reduced my profile
>>> from 2 Meg to 1.5 Meg.
>>
>> Profile, what profile???
>
> The BRAS/IP pofile, I suspect !
>
>> What has happened is that the conditions on your line have changed
>> slightly & the DSLAM has corrected for that change.
>
> Yup - that profile

Pity you selctively edited out the bits which said that it's could
train up again. The B-RAS (Max stable Rate) is not written in stone,
it can go either way at a days, or even a moments notice.

So once again I ask what profile as nothing is permanent when it comes
to Max Rate DSL products..

Martin M wrote:
> "Kraftee" <kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Martin M wrote:
>>> I have had had a stable max DSL service that linesync at 2.6 to
>>> 2.8 Meg (long rural line) for 9 months, the noise figure was
>>> typically 3 to 6dB with the occasional drop.
>>> Yesterday all changed, I found the line sync at about 1.8 Meg
>>> (currently 1888kbs) and the noise margin varying from 2 to 12 dB,
>>> The line is stable. My big problem is this has reduced my profile
>>> from 2 Meg to 1.5 Meg.
>>
>> Profile, what profile???
>
> IP Profile

Internet Profile????????, Idiot Profile??? Incontinence
Profile....There is no IP profile...
>
> What I have noticed is that when the router drops out now it always
> re-syncs at a speed that gives a noise figure of 12 dB (then varies
> below and up to this number), before after a drop it would always
> re-sync at a noise figure of 6dB and then varies below and up to
> this number. This seems like unusual behaviour to me since in the
> past even when I had bad noise on the line and the router dropped
> out it always aimed for this 6 dB noise figure at re-sync with
> reduced speed obviously.

Have you been in contact with your ISP recently about your drop outs??
If you have they may have had your SNR floor level raised (had mine
raised from 6 to 9dB when I was with another ISP), even if you haven't
been in contact and they've monitored your line & seen the drop outs
then possibly they could take it upon themselves to do it anyway.
Have you flashed the router with a newer firmware version, have you
even been tempted to actually custom tweak the firmware you've got
installed in the router.

You have off course tested with another router, haven't you?

In article <f860oj$k7c$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...

> I only have the one filter, ADSL master adaptor plate on the NTE5 with the
> router connected into it and I have disconnected ALL other phone equipment
> to test. I will swap it just to be sure. There have been no local electrical
> storms in the past week.
>

Well unless you live north of a line from say North Wales to the Humber,
then what all parts south of that line enjoyed last Thursday Night/Friday,
was most definitely Thundery.

But that is a different matter!

"G a z ." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) m...
> In article <f860oj$k7c$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
>
>> I only have the one filter, ADSL master adaptor plate on the NTE5 with
>> the
>> router connected into it and I have disconnected ALL other phone
>> equipment
>> to test. I will swap it just to be sure. There have been no local
>> electrical
>> storms in the past week.
>>
>
> Well unless you live north of a line from say North Wales to the Humber,

I DO! ha ha (sorry couldn't resist)

> then what all parts south of that line enjoyed last Thursday Night/Friday,
> was most definitely Thundery.
>
> But that is a different matter!

On Wednesday 25 July 2007 9:17 pm, in MID <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Kraftee (kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk) wrote:

> ian wrote:
>> On Tuesday 24 July 2007 10:52 pm, in MID
>> <(E-Mail Removed)>, Kraftee
>> (kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk) wrote:
>>> Martin M wrote:
>>
>>>> I have had had a stable max DSL service that linesync at 2.6 to
>>>> 2.8 Meg (long rural line) for 9 months, the noise figure was
>>>> typically 3 to 6dB with the occasional drop.
>>>> Yesterday all changed, I found the line sync at about 1.8 Meg
>>>> (currently 1888kbs) and the noise margin varying from 2 to 12 dB,
>>>> The line is stable. My big problem is this has reduced my profile
>>>> from 2 Meg to 1.5 Meg.
>>>
>>> Profile, what profile???
>>
>> The BRAS/IP pofile, I suspect !
>>
>>> What has happened is that the conditions on your line have changed
>>> slightly & the DSLAM has corrected for that change.
>>
>> Yup - that profile
>
> Pity you selctively edited out the bits which said that it's could
> train up again.

I didn't quote them because they're not relevant to the point I was
responding to !

> The B-RAS (Max stable Rate) is not written in stone,
> it can go either way at a days, or even a moments notice.

The BRAS rate/IP rate/profile/whateveryouwanttocallit is not the same as the
MSR !

> So once again I ask what profile as nothing is permanent when it comes
> to Max Rate DSL products..

The sync speed, and hence the BRAS rate/profile, can vary, but the MSR is
fixed unless BTWholesale manually intervene.

--
Ian...