Manage Network cards

I have a small Peer To Peer LAN with 6 Win XP computers.
I had one Gigabit Switch with Internet router connected to it.
Employees were over using the Internet slowing down the network,
so I added another Gigabit network card to each computer and another
Gigabit switch.
On the network that is connected to the router, I disallowed print
and file sharing and firewalled it. While the other I allowed file and
print sharing and disabled the firewall. Hoping Windows would
have enough brain and use the first network for Internet access,
and the other for the local network.
But unfortunately networking and Internet access didn't get much
better.
Is there a way to manage network cards traffic ?

"Ted" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I have a small Peer To Peer LAN with 6 Win XP computers.
> I had one Gigabit Switch with Internet router connected to it.
> Employees were over using the Internet slowing down the network,

No they weren't. There is no way that users browsing the Internet is going
to slow down a Gigabit Link,...it just isn't going to happen. On top of
that a Switch isolates traffic between the Source and Destination of every
connection so that no other machine ever sees the traffic.

If the network was slowing down, then something else was the cause.

> so I added another Gigabit network card to each computer and another
> Gigabit switch.
> On the network that is connected to the router, I disallowed print
> and file sharing and firewalled it. While the other I allowed file and
> print sharing and disabled the firewall. Hoping Windows would
> have enough brain and use the first network for Internet access,

No that won't work like you think and is has nothing to do with Windows
having enough brains,...it has to do with the way TCP/IP works (and doesn't
work),...and TCP/IP wasn't invented by MS.

The solution is to run one Nic in each machine,...hook all the machines into
the gigabit Switch,...then also plug the Internet NAT Device into the
Switch. Make sure the Cables are high enough quality and catagory for
Gigabit speeds.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
-----------------------------------------------------

Ted,

The maximum bandwidth use by a DSL Internet connection is @
1-1.5Mbps. That is no where near your Gigabit switch. Something else
might be causing the traffic on your LAN.

Is it just the Internet slow or is your LAN slow? For Internet, do a
bandwidth test on your Internet connection. The problems might be
from the ISP. If it's the LAN, you might want to check the computers
for virus/trojans.

Also make sure all the cables are CAT5e or higher.

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:51:44 -0800, "Ted" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have a small Peer To Peer LAN with 6 Win XP computers.
>I had one Gigabit Switch with Internet router connected to it.
>Employees were over using the Internet slowing down the network,
>so I added another Gigabit network card to each computer and another
>Gigabit switch.
>On the network that is connected to the router, I disallowed print
>and file sharing and firewalled it. While the other I allowed file and
>print sharing and disabled the firewall. Hoping Windows would
>have enough brain and use the first network for Internet access,
>and the other for the local network.
>But unfortunately networking and Internet access didn't get much
>better.
>Is there a way to manage network cards traffic ?

The Internet is slow, specially when all share the
same bandwidth allowed.
The transfer rate of a Gigabit switch is only theory.
I tried and copied 1.5 GB file from one drive to another,
it took it 38 seconds, while it took it 6 minutes across
a Gigabit network.
If a slow Internet access is going to slow the network,
then the alternative is have another network to allow
other network traffic.
Listening to music over the Internet requires downloading
the music file to the computer, listening to live TV is 100
times larger files to download.
In theory Internet access in a Gigabit network is not going
use all networking resources, but in practice the whole network
freezes when 2 or three listen to music for example.

You as a network engineer, what would you do if the network
bottle neck ? How would you distribute traffic to prevent
bottle necking ?



"nospam.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Ted,
>
> The maximum bandwidth use by a DSL Internet connection is @
> 1-1.5Mbps. That is no where near your Gigabit switch. Something else
> might be causing the traffic on your LAN.
>
> Is it just the Internet slow or is your LAN slow? For Internet, do a
> bandwidth test on your Internet connection. The problems might be
> from the ISP. If it's the LAN, you might want to check the computers
> for virus/trojans.
>
> Also make sure all the cables are CAT5e or higher.
>
> On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 21:51:44 -0800, "Ted" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>I have a small Peer To Peer LAN with 6 Win XP computers.
>>I had one Gigabit Switch with Internet router connected to it.
>>Employees were over using the Internet slowing down the network,
>>so I added another Gigabit network card to each computer and another
>>Gigabit switch.
>>On the network that is connected to the router, I disallowed print
>>and file sharing and firewalled it. While the other I allowed file and
>>print sharing and disabled the firewall. Hoping Windows would
>>have enough brain and use the first network for Internet access,
>>and the other for the local network.
>>But unfortunately networking and Internet access didn't get much
>>better.
>>Is there a way to manage network cards traffic ?
>

"Ted" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> The Internet is slow, specially when all share the
> same bandwidth allowed.
> The transfer rate of a Gigabit switch is only theory.
> I tried and copied 1.5 GB file from one drive to another,
> it took it 38 seconds, while it took it 6 minutes across
> a Gigabit network.

1.5 gig on mine if probably 20 minutes. You don't have anything to complain
about.

> If a slow Internet access is going to slow the network,
> then the alternative is have another network to allow
> other network traffic.

It will not slow down the network. It just won't,..plain and simple.

> Listening to music over the Internet requires downloading
> the music file to the computer, listening to live TV is 100
> times larger files to download.

Streaming video/audio is not intensive as far as the LAN is concerned,...it
only travels at the bitrate it was encoded to run at and no more than that.
A streaming video encoded to run at 500kbps (considered "high quality") is
not going to bother a line running at 1*M*bps. Simple File Copying of the
most intensive.

> In theory Internet access in a Gigabit network is not going
> use all networking resources, but in practice the whole network
> freezes when 2 or three listen to music for example.
>
> You as a network engineer, what would you do if the network
> bottle neck ? How would you distribute traffic to prevent
> bottle necking ?

The bottlenect is most likely the machine. The processor the drives and the
buss speed can only handle so much. When testing, use two machines (copy a
file between them) that are *not* doing any of the other things at the same
time.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
-----------------------------------------------------

"Ted" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> The way it works, the workstation request make changes to
> the databases, sends a message to the server to do the changes.
> The server makes the changes and refreshes the workstations
> to show the changes.

Ok. Is it "web based",...that is, is it using an HTML/ASP front end to the
database,..or is it a regular application installed on the workstation that
serves as the "front end" to the database running on the Server?

> If the server can't go through to all workstations, it is
> going to freeze the server for few seconds for each
> workstation it can't reach.

That could easily be caused by the workstation itself not responding quickly
and not have anything to do with the Network. If the Application on the
client side is a compiled installed application (not web based) and has too
big a "footprint" on the machine then it may not respond well if anything
else is being done on the workstation at the same time. Hit Ctrl-Alt-Del,
bring up the Task Manager and select the Performance Tab. Do this on the
Server and the Workstations at the same time. Watch the Mem and CPU graphs
at the time that this occurs. It is fine if either the MEM or CPU "spike"
for a moment, but they should not stay high.

I can tell you that we only run standard 100mbps on our network of about 100
machines. We are a TV News Station with all kinds of stuff flying around on
the network and yet it shows only running at about 50% capacity at the
"peak" time and I have pretty much no trouble with it. It is a rather boring
situation most days.

We do have one Application used for CNN & ABC on the Clients that uses a
Database on a Server which could be very similar to yours. It is a very
wreched thing and has always been the source of its own troubles and never
the network itself being the source of the trouble.

> We simply can't afford these few seconds, the network
> operation has to go much smoother, and non stop.
> Customers are waiting, telephones are ringing, and simply
> there is no time to go troubleshoot the network, not even
> once a week or once a month.

That is unrealistic. You 'd have to go back to typewriters and pencils. If
it is a computer it will break, it will screw up, it will have problems,
there will be downtime. That is just the way it is. I'm not implying you
don't have a problem,...but at this point I don't know what to say about it
beyond what has already been said.

--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
-----------------------------------------------------

>The bottlenect is most likely the machine. The processor the drives and the
>buss speed can only handle so much.

No body plays at the main computer acting like a server,
or the hard working employees workstations.
But these computers have hard time accessing the network
when the other computers are over using the network.
Listening to music is one problem.
How about continuously downloading music files, or downloading
large size files.
Every second these employees tie up the network, the server
can't reach the workstations to refresh current data changes.

The way it works, the workstation request make changes to
the databases, sends a message to the server to do the changes.
The server makes the changes and refreshes the workstations
to show the changes.
If the server can't go through to all workstations, it is
going to freeze the server for few seconds for each
workstation it can't reach.
We simply can't afford these few seconds, the network
operation has to go much smoother, and non stop.
Customers are waiting, telephones are ringing, and simply
there is no time to go troubleshoot the network, not even
once a week or once a month.


"Phillip Windell" <@.> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Ted" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> The Internet is slow, specially when all share the
>> same bandwidth allowed.
>> The transfer rate of a Gigabit switch is only theory.
>> I tried and copied 1.5 GB file from one drive to another,
>> it took it 38 seconds, while it took it 6 minutes across
>> a Gigabit network.
>
> 1.5 gig on mine if probably 20 minutes. You don't have anything to
> complain
> about.
>
>> If a slow Internet access is going to slow the network,
>> then the alternative is have another network to allow
>> other network traffic.
>
> It will not slow down the network. It just won't,..plain and simple.
>
>> Listening to music over the Internet requires downloading
>> the music file to the computer, listening to live TV is 100
>> times larger files to download.
>
> Streaming video/audio is not intensive as far as the LAN is
> concerned,...it
> only travels at the bitrate it was encoded to run at and no more than
> that.
> A streaming video encoded to run at 500kbps (considered "high quality") is
> not going to bother a line running at 1*M*bps. Simple File Copying of the
> most intensive.
>
>> In theory Internet access in a Gigabit network is not going
>> use all networking resources, but in practice the whole network
>> freezes when 2 or three listen to music for example.
>>
>> You as a network engineer, what would you do if the network
>> bottle neck ? How would you distribute traffic to prevent
>> bottle necking ?
>
> The bottlenect is most likely the machine. The processor the drives and
> the
> buss speed can only handle so much. When testing, use two machines (copy
> a
> file between them) that are *not* doing any of the other things at the
> same
> time.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
> www.wandtv.com
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
> http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html
>
> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp
>
> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

>Ok. Is it "web based",...
No it is not.

>Watch the Mem and CPU graphs
The memory is fine.

> That could easily be caused by the workstation itself not responding
> quickly
> and not have anything to do with the Network.

That is true in some sense, but if the computer is not
accessible or can't be seen on the network, the server
is going to come back with Network Access errors.
The time it takes the server access the workstations
amounts to less than a second.

> That is unrealistic. You 'd have to go back to typewriters and pencils.

that is just an escape route :-)

The thing is, Microsoft keeps updating IE, and the Media player
day and night, adding features and more features. But ignoring
outdated TCP/IP.
The thing is DSL and Cable came around, and Microsoft has
not thought of network resources has been hijacked by internet use.

It is very convenient for a home to have Internet access through
the network, but not a business.
That is why EU demanded Windows XP without the Media player.
In Win 95 days having IE or Netscape installed in a business
computer was a no-no. So were sound cards, now sound cards
comes integrated, and the boss is fruitier than the employees.






"Phillip Windell" <@.> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Ted" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
>> The way it works, the workstation request make changes to
>> the databases, sends a message to the server to do the changes.
>> The server makes the changes and refreshes the workstations
>> to show the changes.
>
> Ok. Is it "web based",...that is, is it using an HTML/ASP front end to
> the
> database,..or is it a regular application installed on the workstation
> that
> serves as the "front end" to the database running on the Server?
>
>> If the server can't go through to all workstations, it is
>> going to freeze the server for few seconds for each
>> workstation it can't reach.
>
> That could easily be caused by the workstation itself not responding
> quickly
> and not have anything to do with the Network. If the Application on the
> client side is a compiled installed application (not web based) and has
> too
> big a "footprint" on the machine then it may not respond well if anything
> else is being done on the workstation at the same time. Hit Ctrl-Alt-Del,
> bring up the Task Manager and select the Performance Tab. Do this on the
> Server and the Workstations at the same time. Watch the Mem and CPU graphs
> at the time that this occurs. It is fine if either the MEM or CPU "spike"
> for a moment, but they should not stay high.
>
> I can tell you that we only run standard 100mbps on our network of about
> 100
> machines. We are a TV News Station with all kinds of stuff flying around
> on
> the network and yet it shows only running at about 50% capacity at the
> "peak" time and I have pretty much no trouble with it. It is a rather
> boring
> situation most days.
>
> We do have one Application used for CNN & ABC on the Clients that uses a
> Database on a Server which could be very similar to yours. It is a very
> wreched thing and has always been the source of its own troubles and never
> the network itself being the source of the trouble.
>
>> We simply can't afford these few seconds, the network
>> operation has to go much smoother, and non stop.
>> Customers are waiting, telephones are ringing, and simply
>> there is no time to go troubleshoot the network, not even
>> once a week or once a month.
>
> That is unrealistic. You 'd have to go back to typewriters and pencils.
> If
> it is a computer it will break, it will screw up, it will have problems,
> there will be downtime. That is just the way it is. I'm not implying you
> don't have a problem,...but at this point I don't know what to say about
> it
> beyond what has already been said.
>
> --
> Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
> www.wandtv.com
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
> http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html
>
> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp
>
> Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
> http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

"Ted" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > That could easily be caused by the workstation itself not responding
> > quickly and not have anything to do with the Network.
>
> That is true in some sense, but if the computer is not
> accessible or can't be seen on the network, the server
> is going to come back with Network Access errors.
> The time it takes the server access the workstations
> amounts to less than a second.

It is true in the exact sense,..not just "some sense". If the CPU doesn't
respond "in time" because it is busy you will get a network access error
even if the network itself is perfectly fine.

> > That is unrealistic. You 'd have to go back to typewriters and pencils.
>
> that is just an escape route :-)
>
> The thing is, Microsoft keeps updating IE, and the Media player
> day and night, adding features and more features. But ignoring
> outdated TCP/IP.

There is nothing about TCP/IP being "outdated" or "not outdated" that is
going to be the cause of your problem.

> The thing is DSL and Cable came around, and Microsoft has
> not thought of network resources has been hijacked by internet use.

DSL and Cable were designed for, and always have been for Home Users. It is
a "home user" technology and not originally meant for businesses. It has
only become popular among businesses because it is "cheap", not because it
is really the right thing for the job.

> It is very convenient for a home to have Internet access through
> the network, but not a business.
> That is why EU demanded Windows XP without the Media player.
> In Win 95 days having IE or Netscape installed in a business

You're never going to solve your problem by sitting around blaming
Microsoft. If they were the cause we would all have the same problem at the
same time and there would not be a solution. But we aren't having the same
problem as you are with even slower 100mbps systems. You have some kind of
design or configuration problem, but there really is no way I or anyone here
can know what that would be beyond just making "wild guesses" because we are
all figurativley speaking working with a blindfold on to figure out
something on a network that we have never seen, never designed, never setup,
and have no background knowledge on.


--
Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com
-----------------------------------------------------
Understanding the ISA 2004 Access Rule Processing
http://www.isaserver.org/articles/IS...cessRules.html

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Guidance
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2004.asp
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/t...dance/2000.asp

Microsoft Internet Security & Acceleration Server: Partners
http://www.microsoft.com/isaserver/partners/default.asp
-----------------------------------------------------

Ted,

>>Ok. Is it "web based",...
>No it is not.
If this database application is not web based, can you tell us what's
it in? Access? Foxpro? SQL 2002? Your database application maybe
the one slowing down your network. How big is the database file(s)?


Again, I'm sure having 2-3 employees listen to streaming news on the
Internet will not slow down your network. It will slow down your
Internet speed by max out the Internet download bandwidth. But has
nothing to do with max your LAN bandwidth.