Maintaining a Connection Across Suspend/Sleep (Newbie)

I've recently installed a wireless system - pretty simple environment.

- Cable Modem
- Netgear WNR834B
- Two Recent Vintage Dell Laptops (Vista Home Premium) wirelessly
connected
- DHCP enabled for all devices and have not disabled SSID broadcasting
- Latest level of WPA available on my hardware is enabled

I'm running into a non-repeatable (but recurring) problem. The norm for both
of these computers is to be in "Sleep Mode". Often when coming out they are
connected just fine. Other times they seem to be "connected" (as Wireless
Network Connection status shows a strong signal), but nothing is sent or
received. And the "Diagnose" process selected out of the "Wireless Network
Connection Status" window always shows a problem.

To get out of this any of the following has worked at one time or the other

- do nothing for a couple minutes
- Go into the Diagnose path in the Vista "Wireless Network Connection
Status" window and try one of the several presented options (usually get a
new IP address or reset the connection). It can take a few tries here
sometimes.
- Disable and re-enable the wireless adapter and re-connect
- Shut down and re-start

For my personal purposes this isn't a huge problem. But my wife wants to
"open the lid and look at her email". A relatively cut and dried set of
restart procedures would be OK for her, but I have not yet identified these.

Given the above usage scenarios these problems do not surprise me. But I
have to believe that there is a better solution than what I have found so
far. What should I be changing here?

Thanks.

dave

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:21:17 -0500, "Dave Lee"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed)>:

>I've recently installed a wireless system - pretty simple environment.
>
> - Cable Modem
> - Netgear WNR834B
> - Two Recent Vintage Dell Laptops (Vista Home Premium) wirelessly
>connected
> - DHCP enabled for all devices and have not disabled SSID broadcasting
> - Latest level of WPA available on my hardware is enabled
>
>I'm running into a non-repeatable (but recurring) problem. The norm for both
>of these computers is to be in "Sleep Mode". Often when coming out they are
>connected just fine. Other times they seem to be "connected" (as Wireless
>Network Connection status shows a strong signal), but nothing is sent or
>received. And the "Diagnose" process selected out of the "Wireless Network
>Connection Status" window always shows a problem.
>
>To get out of this any of the following has worked at one time or the other
>
> - do nothing for a couple minutes
> - Go into the Diagnose path in the Vista "Wireless Network Connection
>Status" window and try one of the several presented options (usually get a
>new IP address or reset the connection). It can take a few tries here
>sometimes.
> - Disable and re-enable the wireless adapter and re-connect
> - Shut down and re-start
>
>For my personal purposes this isn't a huge problem. But my wife wants to
>"open the lid and look at her email". A relatively cut and dried set of
>restart procedures would be OK for her, but I have not yet identified these.
>
>Given the above usage scenarios these problems do not surprise me. But I
>have to believe that there is a better solution than what I have found so
>far. What should I be changing here?

When your laptop goes to sleep it disappears from the wireless.
Implemented well, it should be closing any connections.

When your laptop wakes up, it needs to reestablish those connections.

Properly written wireless drivers do work that way -- it's seamless.
That's how my IBM ThinkPad works.

You can try updating your wireless drivers to the latest drivers, but
otherwise you'll have to try different wireless adapter(s), or configure
your wife's computer not to go to sleep when the lid is closed.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

"John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:21:17 -0500, "Dave Lee"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>>I've recently installed a wireless system - pretty simple environment.
>>
>> - Cable Modem
>> - Netgear WNR834B
>> - Two Recent Vintage Dell Laptops (Vista Home Premium) wirelessly
>>connected
>> - DHCP enabled for all devices and have not disabled SSID broadcasting
>> - Latest level of WPA available on my hardware is enabled
>>
>>I'm running into a non-repeatable (but recurring) problem. The norm for
>>both
>>of these computers is to be in "Sleep Mode". Often when coming out they
>>are
>>connected just fine. Other times they seem to be "connected" (as Wireless
>>Network Connection status shows a strong signal), but nothing is sent or
>>received. And the "Diagnose" process selected out of the "Wireless Network
>>Connection Status" window always shows a problem.
>>
>>To get out of this any of the following has worked at one time or the
>>other
>>
>> - do nothing for a couple minutes
>> - Go into the Diagnose path in the Vista "Wireless Network Connection
>>Status" window and try one of the several presented options (usually get a
>>new IP address or reset the connection). It can take a few tries here
>>sometimes.
>> - Disable and re-enable the wireless adapter and re-connect
>> - Shut down and re-start
>>
>>For my personal purposes this isn't a huge problem. But my wife wants to
>>"open the lid and look at her email". A relatively cut and dried set of
>>restart procedures would be OK for her, but I have not yet identified
>>these.
>>
>>Given the above usage scenarios these problems do not surprise me. But I
>>have to believe that there is a better solution than what I have found so
>>far. What should I be changing here?
>
> When your laptop goes to sleep it disappears from the wireless.
> Implemented well, it should be closing any connections.
>
> When your laptop wakes up, it needs to reestablish those connections.
>
> Properly written wireless drivers do work that way -- it's seamless.
> That's how my IBM ThinkPad works.
>
> You can try updating your wireless drivers to the latest drivers, but
> otherwise you'll have to try different wireless adapter(s), or configure
> your wife's computer not to go to sleep when the lid is closed.
>
> --
> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
> Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Thanks, John. That is a very reasonable analysis. I've checked for updated
drivers and there are none available.

But I wonder if this is the root cause (hoping might be a better term, I
guess). I say this because when I resume operation and look at my wireless
status window the "duration" counter has clearly been reset. And I have seen
this problem on my own XPS (with a different wireless card). But it isn't as
repeatable on that system.

I'm guessing here that the ultimate answer is probably a new wireless card
if I can't get Dell to address this.

Thanks for all the effort that you put on this board.

dave

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:13:43 -0500, "Dave Lee"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed)>:

>Thanks, John. That is a very reasonable analysis. I've checked for updated
>drivers and there are none available.
>
>But I wonder if this is the root cause (hoping might be a better term, I
>guess). I say this because when I resume operation and look at my wireless
>status window the "duration" counter has clearly been reset. And I have seen
>this problem on my own XPS (with a different wireless card). But it isn't as
>repeatable on that system.
>
>I'm guessing here that the ultimate answer is probably a new wireless card
>if I can't get Dell to address this.
>
>Thanks for all the effort that you put on this board.

You're welcome. Thanks for taking the time to say thanks, and sorry
I couldn't be more helpful.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

Dave Lee wrote:
> "John Navas" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:21:17 -0500, "Dave Lee"
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> <(E-Mail Removed)>:
>>
>>> I've recently installed a wireless system - pretty simple
>>> environment. - Cable Modem
>>> - Netgear WNR834B
>>> - Two Recent Vintage Dell Laptops (Vista Home Premium) wirelessly
>>> connected
>>> - DHCP enabled for all devices and have not disabled SSID
>>> broadcasting - Latest level of WPA available on my hardware is enabled
>>>
>>> I'm running into a non-repeatable (but recurring) problem. The norm
>>> for both
>>> of these computers is to be in "Sleep Mode". Often when coming out
>>> they are
>>> connected just fine. Other times they seem to be "connected" (as
>>> Wireless Network Connection status shows a strong signal), but
>>> nothing is sent or received. And the "Diagnose" process selected
>>> out of the "Wireless Network Connection Status" window always shows
>>> a problem. To get out of this any of the following has worked at one
>>> time or
>>> the other
>>>
>>> - do nothing for a couple minutes
>>> - Go into the Diagnose path in the Vista "Wireless Network
>>> Connection Status" window and try one of the several presented
>>> options (usually get a new IP address or reset the connection). It
>>> can take a few tries here sometimes.
>>> - Disable and re-enable the wireless adapter and re-connect
>>> - Shut down and re-start
>>>
>>> For my personal purposes this isn't a huge problem. But my wife
>>> wants to "open the lid and look at her email". A relatively cut and
>>> dried set of restart procedures would be OK for her, but I have not
>>> yet identified these.
>>>
>>> Given the above usage scenarios these problems do not surprise me.
>>> But I have to believe that there is a better solution than what I
>>> have found so far. What should I be changing here?
>>
>> When your laptop goes to sleep it disappears from the wireless.
>> Implemented well, it should be closing any connections.
>>
>> When your laptop wakes up, it needs to reestablish those connections.
>>
>> Properly written wireless drivers do work that way -- it's seamless.
>> That's how my IBM ThinkPad works.
>>
>> You can try updating your wireless drivers to the latest drivers, but
>> otherwise you'll have to try different wireless adapter(s), or
>> configure your wife's computer not to go to sleep when the lid is
>> closed. --
>> Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet:
>> <http://Wireless.wikia.com> John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi:
>> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi> Wi-Fi How To:
>> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo> Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:
>> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

That's pretty much exactly what happened with mine, on xp i went with intel
proset instead of windows zero config, and for vista I went with a wifi
dongle (you can have BOTH built in wireless and a USB dongle with it's own
software, real handy when you get a directional usb and use it when
travelling)

"Dave Lee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've recently installed a wireless system - pretty simple environment.
>
> - Cable Modem
> - Netgear WNR834B
> - Two Recent Vintage Dell Laptops (Vista Home Premium) wirelessly
> connected
> - DHCP enabled for all devices and have not disabled SSID broadcasting
> - Latest level of WPA available on my hardware is enabled
>
> I'm running into a non-repeatable (but recurring) problem. The norm for
> both of these computers is to be in "Sleep Mode". Often when coming out
> they are connected just fine. Other times they seem to be "connected" (as
> Wireless Network Connection status shows a strong signal), but nothing is
> sent or received. And the "Diagnose" process selected out of the "Wireless
> Network Connection Status" window always shows a problem.
>
> To get out of this any of the following has worked at one time or the
> other
>
> - do nothing for a couple minutes
> - Go into the Diagnose path in the Vista "Wireless Network Connection
> Status" window and try one of the several presented options (usually get a
> new IP address or reset the connection). It can take a few tries here
> sometimes.
> - Disable and re-enable the wireless adapter and re-connect
> - Shut down and re-start
>
> For my personal purposes this isn't a huge problem. But my wife wants to
> "open the lid and look at her email". A relatively cut and dried set of
> restart procedures would be OK for her, but I have not yet identified
> these.
>
> Given the above usage scenarios these problems do not surprise me. But I
> have to believe that there is a better solution than what I have found so
> far. What should I be changing here?
>
> Thanks.
>
> dave

An interesting additional piece of data here. The problem behavior is now
pretty consistent. It is (mostly) on my wife's machine and when you are
connected wirelessly and go into sleep mode, when coming out (even after
only a few seconds) you see the following

1) The Wireless Network Connection Status window (which was open and on top)
will show up and then disappear after around 5-10 seconds.

2) WHen I go back into Network stuff I am only connected locally (had not
noticed that before, but that seems to be the consistent behavior now)

3) This is the new part (and I have seen it twice - only timed it once). If
I wait for 9 minutes (3 minutes is not enough as I've tried that a couple
times) I go from local to Internet on IPv4 connectivity! 9 minutes is a long
time! I saw this (untimed) once on the other side of the house where the
signal was alternating between fair and good. But I timed it in the same
room as the router (strength excellent), so I don't think it is a signal
thing.

I'm posting this in case it brings up other thoughts. I'm now in the Dell
support Queue and will see if that goes anywhere.

dave

Re: The attached stuff

FWIW, Dell Support has basically given up and directed me to a different
wireless card (according to Dell Support this one is built-in so it is an
exchange
problem - damn.

I'll probably do a bit more work here just to be sure, but resolution with
my
existing hardware seems unlikely.

dave

"Dave Lee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Dave Lee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I've recently installed a wireless system - pretty simple environment.
>>
>> - Cable Modem
>> - Netgear WNR834B
>> - Two Recent Vintage Dell Laptops (Vista Home Premium) wirelessly
>> connected
>> - DHCP enabled for all devices and have not disabled SSID broadcasting
>> - Latest level of WPA available on my hardware is enabled
>>
>> I'm running into a non-repeatable (but recurring) problem. The norm for
>> both of these computers is to be in "Sleep Mode". Often when coming out
>> they are connected just fine. Other times they seem to be "connected" (as
>> Wireless Network Connection status shows a strong signal), but nothing is
>> sent or received. And the "Diagnose" process selected out of the
>> "Wireless Network Connection Status" window always shows a problem.
>>
>> To get out of this any of the following has worked at one time or the
>> other
>>
>> - do nothing for a couple minutes
>> - Go into the Diagnose path in the Vista "Wireless Network Connection
>> Status" window and try one of the several presented options (usually get
>> a new IP address or reset the connection). It can take a few tries here
>> sometimes.
>> - Disable and re-enable the wireless adapter and re-connect
>> - Shut down and re-start
>>
>> For my personal purposes this isn't a huge problem. But my wife wants to
>> "open the lid and look at her email". A relatively cut and dried set of
>> restart procedures would be OK for her, but I have not yet identified
>> these.
>>
>> Given the above usage scenarios these problems do not surprise me. But I
>> have to believe that there is a better solution than what I have found so
>> far. What should I be changing here?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> dave
>
> An interesting additional piece of data here. The problem behavior is now
> pretty consistent. It is (mostly) on my wife's machine and when you are
> connected wirelessly and go into sleep mode, when coming out (even after
> only a few seconds) you see the following
>
> 1) The Wireless Network Connection Status window (which was open and on
> top) will show up and then disappear after around 5-10 seconds.
>
> 2) WHen I go back into Network stuff I am only connected locally (had not
> noticed that before, but that seems to be the consistent behavior now)
>
> 3) This is the new part (and I have seen it twice - only timed it once).
> If I wait for 9 minutes (3 minutes is not enough as I've tried that a
> couple times) I go from local to Internet on IPv4 connectivity! 9 minutes
> is a long time! I saw this (untimed) once on the other side of the house
> where the signal was alternating between fair and good. But I timed it in
> the same room as the router (strength excellent), so I don't think it is a
> signal thing.
>
> I'm posting this in case it brings up other thoughts. I'm now in the Dell
> support Queue and will see if that goes anywhere.
>
> dave