Looking for cheap/small/quiet GNU/Linux server

I'm looking for a cheap and small box on which I could setup a few deamons
for things like DNS, DHCP, web-cache, LPR, ...

It seems my best option in terms of price/size/heat/noise/... is to aim for
something like a Linksys router and install a completely different firmware.
The only info I've found until now about such things is at
http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html. Is there some further effort in
this direction, maybe with other boxes as well ?


Stefan


PS: Part of the motivation is that I want a DHCP server where I can force
some machine's IP address by providing the server with a set of
predefined MAC->IP mapping. All Linksys-like boxes I've found until now
have a DHCP server but offer no way to predefine some MAC->IP mappings.
So I'd also be interested to hear about routers which offer such
capabilities.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:40:41 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:

>
> I'm looking for a cheap and small box on which I could setup a few deamons
> for things like DNS, DHCP, web-cache, LPR, ...
>
> It seems my best option in terms of price/size/heat/noise/... is to aim for
> something like a Linksys router and install a completely different firmware.
> The only info I've found until now about such things is at
> http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html. Is there some further effort in
> this direction, maybe with other boxes as well ?
>
>
> Stefan
>
>
> PS: Part of the motivation is that I want a DHCP server where I can force
> some machine's IP address by providing the server with a set of
> predefined MAC->IP mapping. All Linksys-like boxes I've found until now
> have a DHCP server but offer no way to predefine some MAC->IP mappings.
> So I'd also be interested to hear about routers which offer such
> capabilities.

www.mini-itx.com you can find decent prices on barebones systems at
www.idotpc.com

>> I'm looking for a cheap and small box on which I could setup a few deamons
>> for things like DNS, DHCP, web-cache, LPR, ...
>>
>> It seems my best option in terms of price/size/heat/noise/... is to aim for
>> something like a Linksys router and install a completely different firmware.
>> The only info I've found until now about such things is at
>> http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html. Is there some further effort in
>> this direction, maybe with other boxes as well ?
>>
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>
>> PS: Part of the motivation is that I want a DHCP server where I can force
>> some machine's IP address by providing the server with a set of
>> predefined MAC->IP mapping. All Linksys-like boxes I've found until now
>> have a DHCP server but offer no way to predefine some MAC->IP mappings.
>> So I'd also be interested to hear about routers which offer such
>> capabilities.

> www.mini-itx.com you can find decent prices on barebones systems at
> www.idotpc.com

But motherboard+powersupply+flashdisk+enclosure makes it *much* more
expensive than a WRT54g.


Stefan

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 15:07:16 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:

>>> I'm looking for a cheap and small box on which I could setup a few deamons
>>> for things like DNS, DHCP, web-cache, LPR, ...
>>>
>>> It seems my best option in terms of price/size/heat/noise/... is to aim for
>>> something like a Linksys router and install a completely different firmware.
>>> The only info I've found until now about such things is at
>>> http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html. Is there some further effort in
>>> this direction, maybe with other boxes as well ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>>
>>> PS: Part of the motivation is that I want a DHCP server where I can force
>>> some machine's IP address by providing the server with a set of
>>> predefined MAC->IP mapping. All Linksys-like boxes I've found until now
>>> have a DHCP server but offer no way to predefine some MAC->IP mappings.
>>> So I'd also be interested to hear about routers which offer such
>>> capabilities.
>
>> www.mini-itx.com you can find decent prices on barebones systems at
>> www.idotpc.com
>
> But motherboard+powersupply+flashdisk+enclosure makes it *much* more
> expensive than a WRT54g.
>
>
> Stefan

Sorry, but that url does not get me anywhere. Anyway, I bought a barebones
M10k, got memory, hard disk, cd-rw at OfficeMax and BestBuy, and came in
at about $400 after the rebates.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:40:41 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> I'm looking for a cheap and small box on which I could setup a few deamons
> for things like DNS, DHCP, web-cache, LPR, ...
>
> It seems my best option in terms of price/size/heat/noise/... is to aim for
> something like a Linksys router and install a completely different firmware.
> The only info I've found until now about such things is at
> http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html. Is there some further effort in
> this direction, maybe with other boxes as well ?
>
> PS: Part of the motivation is that I want a DHCP server where I can force
> some machine's IP address by providing the server with a set of
> predefined MAC->IP mapping. All Linksys-like boxes I've found until now
> have a DHCP server but offer no way to predefine some MAC->IP mappings.
> So I'd also be interested to hear about routers which offer such
> capabilities.

Sounds like you want to assign static IP addresses. If that's the case,
why not just define them in /etc/hosts? or NIS? or some other name server.
The whole idea behind DHCP was to be able to assign dynamic IP addresses.

Not looking to argue with you about what you want to do, because there's
always lots to learn from any new/different approach.

The Linksys is cute, but you might want a bit more expandability? Small
disk? Printer port(s)? Memory expansion? Serial port(s)? etc.

What I've done for "cheap machines" is pickup some old "junkers" from a
local used computer store, years ago. They cost me $50/ea, and with extra
stuff from my "junk box" (and a couple of new parts) I was able to put
together an internet gateway, similar to what you describe. Some people go
"dumpster diving" (dunno if for real, or just an expression), or find
someone getting rid of an old machine. I doubt that computer store
tradeins are worth much these days? Just a gimmick to get 'em in the store.

If you don't run a GUI, then Linux is pretty happy and productive on an
older machine, even 386 or 486 (or PODP?). Doesn't take much to feed
characters out to a printer, etc.

--
Juhan Leemet
Logicognosis, Inc.

> Sorry, but that url does not get me anywhere. Anyway, I bought
> a barebones M10k, got memory, hard disk, cd-rw at OfficeMax and BestBuy,
> and came in at about $400 after the rebates.

As compared to a wrt54g which goes for $100.


Stefan


PS: Admittedly I wouldn't want a harddrive and cdrw because it eats up too
much energy and space and makes too much noise, but even if you remove
those, it still ends up much more expensive.

> Sounds like you want to assign static IP addresses.

No I don't. I want the machines to "just work" whether I'm at home or at
work, so they should just use DHCP all the time (and yes, at home they'll
always get the same IP, so it's a static IP but obtained dynamically).

> If that's the case, why not just define them in /etc/hosts? or NIS?
> or some other name server. The whole idea behind DHCP was to be able to
> assign dynamic IP addresses.

The idea was to distribute IP addresses dynamically. They might very well
always be the same. The standard dhcpd in Linux can do that without any
problem, but the one used in most/all routers is much dumber.

> The Linksys is cute, but you might want a bit more expandability? Small
> disk? Printer port(s)? Memory expansion? Serial port(s)? etc.

I want 0 noise and very small form factor. I don't care about expansion.
The only thing that I might consider useful is a USB port (which some
routers offer), but it's pretty far down the list of my priorities.

> What I've done for "cheap machines" is pickup some old "junkers" from a
> local used computer store, years ago. They cost me $50/ea, and with extra
> stuff from my "junk box" (and a couple of new parts) I was able to put
> together an internet gateway, similar to what you describe. Some people go
> "dumpster diving" (dunno if for real, or just an expression), or find
> someone getting rid of an old machine. I doubt that computer store
> tradeins are worth much these days? Just a gimmick to get 'em in the store.

It ends up usually much louder than a router, and the form factor is
simply incomparable.


Stefan

Stefan Monnier <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> I'm looking for a cheap and small box on which I could setup a few
> deamons for things like DNS, DHCP, web-cache, LPR, ...

> It seems my best option in terms of price/size/heat/noise/... is to
> aim for something like a Linksys router and install a completely
> different firmware.

It's slightly awkward to start from an existing finished product, as
these are not generally intended for the purpose and it's often tricky
to get your own image in, find driver source, etc. You certainly
wouldn't want to productize something built this way from a Linuxsys
device, although it would be an OK path for a hobby project.

Try Soekris, which sells a line of relatively cheap (circa $200)
x86-based minirouter-style hardware, shipped with no software. There
are active communities of Linux and *BSD people making software for
it, so you could roll your own (it's just a PC with a serial console
after all) or start with an image from someone else's project.

There are a number of companies shipping similar appliance/router
hardware, some on x86, and many more on non-x86 processors. For
one-offs it's often easier to use x86, but for more substantial
products the overhead of having to cross-compile and deal with a
non-mainstream cpu tends not to matter as much.

--
Grant Taylor
Embedded Linux Consultant
http://www.picante.com/

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:31:53 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Sounds like you want to assign static IP addresses.
>
> No I don't. I want the machines to "just work" whether I'm at home or at
> work, so they should just use DHCP all the time (and yes, at home they'll
> always get the same IP, so it's a static IP but obtained dynamically).

Then why does it matter whether they get the same IP address? Let them get
any IP address the router gives them and use that? That presupposes that
all of your initiated connections are "outbound" (i.e. from a workstation)
from whatever X IP address you have. The router will know to route any
responses back to you at your assigned IP address.

--
Juhan Leemet
Logicognosis, Inc.

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:22:55 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Sorry, but that url does not get me anywhere. Anyway, I bought
>> a barebones M10k, got memory, hard disk, cd-rw at OfficeMax and BestBuy,
>> and came in at about $400 after the rebates.
>
> As compared to a wrt54g which goes for $100.

So, sounds like you've already made up your mind, and we're getting a lot
of "yes, but..." to any suggestions. Why don't you just buy the wrt54g and
stop bothering all these nice people? 8^)

--
Juhan Leemet
Logicognosis, Inc.