How long should it take to sync?

Between mains power cuts (every couple of weeks around here, lately) I have
a reliable ADSLMax connection from Zen running at 160 - 224 kbps downstream
and 448 kbps upstream, on a line about 11 km long. Noise margin d/s cycles
slowly between 6 & 12 db (better at night), and is always 12 db u/s. The
problem is that it takes my Netgear DG834 router anything up to 12 hours to
re-sync after a power-off (voluntary or involuntary). I have tried a
Draytek 2800 with various firmwares, but it has never synced at all in
periods up to 36 hours.

Is it normal to take that long to re-sync with a 6 - 12 db noise margin, and
if not is there anything I can do to speed up the synchronisation process
from power-on?

Trev

"Trev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:455b4b4a$0$18048$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Between mains power cuts (every couple of weeks around here, lately) I
> have a reliable ADSLMax connection from Zen running at 160 - 224 kbps
> downstream and 448 kbps upstream, on a line about 11 km long. Noise
> margin d/s cycles slowly between 6 & 12 db (better at night), and is
> always 12 db u/s. The problem is that it takes my Netgear DG834 router
> anything up to 12 hours to re-sync after a power-off (voluntary or
> involuntary). I have tried a Draytek 2800 with various firmwares, but it
> has never synced at all in periods up to 36 hours.
>
> Is it normal to take that long to re-sync with a 6 - 12 db noise margin,
> and if not is there anything I can do to speed up the synchronisation
> process from power-on?

You could get a UPS and stop the router from being powered off.
How long are the power cuts?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Trev <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Between mains power cuts (every couple of weeks around here, lately)
> I have a reliable ADSLMax connection from Zen running at 160 - 224
> kbps downstream and 448 kbps upstream, on a line about 11 km long. Noise
> margin d/s cycles slowly between 6 & 12 db (better at night),
> and is always 12 db u/s. The problem is that it takes my Netgear
> DG834 router anything up to 12 hours to re-sync after a power-off
> (voluntary or involuntary). I have tried a Draytek 2800 with various
> firmwares, but it has never synced at all in periods up to 36 hours.
>
> Is it normal to take that long to re-sync with a 6 - 12 db noise
> margin, and if not is there anything I can do to speed up the
> synchronisation process from power-on?
>
> Trev

After a reset, my router invariably re-synchs with the line in 30 seconds or
less. [I haven't actually timed it because it hasn't been an issue - but
that is my best estimate from watching it]. Having got the synch light on,
it can then take anything from a few seconds to forever to log on to my
PlusNet ADSL account.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On 15 Nov 2006, "Trev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Is it normal to take that long to re-sync

That does seem an inordinately long time... As it happens, some friends in
a rural location (on the edge of a village) have had significant problems
with their connection (also, as it happens, with Zen on DSL Max). They
are not half as far as you from their exchange (Frodsham) and have in
fact been getting sync speeds of 3000 kbps on the downstream side, but
relatively poor speed tests, and had also been getting some lengthy
periods of downtime, like yours.

>if not is there anything I can do to speed up the synchronisation process
>from power-on?

Has Zen suggested anything? In the case of my friends, I was told that a
week or so ago the SNR level was increased (from the default 6 db level)
so the exchange will attempt to sync with a higher threshold of signal
against noise, with the resulting lower sync speed. I was speaking
to one of the family last week (24 hours into this increased level)
and suggested they monitor how stable the connection was over weekend,
rather than try to get suggestions for "improvement" from me without them
seeing the difference over a longer period - 24 hours seemed far too short
IMO for them to know if it really was being more stable or not...

After all, it was the problem _once down_ of not coming back online for
several hours which was their _significant_ problem, and speed was a
secondary issue. They've even been tempted to switch ISP (to go back to
a 'stable' 2000 kbps) if Zen won't let them (I am unsure whether Zen will
allow it, and indeed I don't know what speed they were on before they asked
to go to DSL Max - it was their pushy son {age 12, I think} who pestered
for them to get a faster connection, and all have hated the effect of the
switch, though from past checks they did previously have a poor stability
level, IMO, but the reconnections were prompt, whilst with DSL Max it was
taking hours at a time to get back online).

There are also some electric fences in the areas around them, which may
have had some detrimental effects, and that's another area which they
were going to investigate... so different, but also problematic,
and you're not alone !!

"dennis@home" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:k%I6h.982$(E-Mail Removed).. .
>
> "Trev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:455b4b4a$0$18048$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Between mains power cuts (every couple of weeks around here, lately) I
>> have a reliable ADSLMax connection from Zen running at 160 - 224 kbps
>> downstream and 448 kbps upstream, on a line about 11 km long. Noise
>> margin d/s cycles slowly between 6 & 12 db (better at night), and is
>> always 12 db u/s. The problem is that it takes my Netgear DG834 router
>> anything up to 12 hours to re-sync after a power-off (voluntary or
>> involuntary). I have tried a Draytek 2800 with various firmwares, but it
>> has never synced at all in periods up to 36 hours.
>>
>> Is it normal to take that long to re-sync with a 6 - 12 db noise margin,
>> and if not is there anything I can do to speed up the synchronisation
>> process from power-on?
>
> You could get a UPS and stop the router from being powered off.

True, but probably overkill for my needs. There is always the 0845 dial-up
if really necessary.

> How long are the power cuts?

Usually less than an hour.

I was hoping there was something I could tweak in the router setup...

Trev wrote in message
455b4b4a$0$18048$(E-Mail Removed):

> Between mains power cuts (every couple of weeks around here, lately)
> I have a reliable ADSLMax connection from Zen running at 160 - 224
> kbps downstream and 448 kbps upstream, on a line about 11 km long. Noise
> margin d/s cycles slowly between 6 & 12 db (better at night),
> and is always 12 db u/s. The problem is that it takes my Netgear
> DG834 router anything up to 12 hours to re-sync after a power-off
> (voluntary or involuntary). I have tried a Draytek 2800 with various
> firmwares, but it has never synced at all in periods up to 36 hours.
>
> Is it normal to take that long to re-sync with a 6 - 12 db noise
> margin, and if not is there anything I can do to speed up the
> synchronisation process from power-on?

Interesting that it takes so long and yet eventually it does succeed in
connecting.

I wouldn't have thought that a noise margin of 12 dB downstream is anything
to get worried about. My Netgear DG834GT reports 14.9 dB down / 24 dB up, so
the downstream margin is only about 3 dB better than yours. I get 8 Mbps /
488 Kbps. This is for a line that's probably about 300 metres from the
exchange.

Your problem may be more the attenuation than the noise margin. This is
probably where my results are significantly better than yours: 7 dB down / 6
dB up.

Given that your noise margin varies at differnt times during the day, have
you ever found that your router seems to sync more quickly during times of
higher noise margin? Obviously if it's taking 12 hours to resync, you don't
want to do any comparative tests at different times of day if it's going to
take that long to re-connect after each test!

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:15:35 -0000, "Trev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Is it normal to take that long to re-sync

no, 20s or so, perhaps a minute if the conditions aren't good.

12 hours to resync is more like 12 hours waiting for the conditions to
be such that a resync is achievable.

Phil
--
http://www.notspot.info/ - if you can't get the Broadband you want.

Phil Thompson wrote in message
(E-Mail Removed):

> On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:15:35 -0000, "Trev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Is it normal to take that long to re-sync
>
> no, 20s or so, perhaps a minute if the conditions aren't good.
>
> 12 hours to resync is more like 12 hours waiting for the conditions to
> be such that a resync is achievable.

I've just tested my Netgear DG834GT. With a "ping -t" to an external site
running continuously, timings were as follows:

Test run 1
==========

Elapsed
time

0 sec router turned on
19 sec ADSL light stops flashing orange and turns steady green
96 sec ping -t starts getting replies


Test run 2
==========

Elapsed
time

0 sec router turned on
19 sec ADSL light stops flashing orange and turns steady green
20 sec ping -t starts getting replies


Test run 3
==========

Elapsed
time

0 sec router turned on
19 sec ADSL light stops flashing orange and turns steady green
35 sec ping -t starts getting replies



So the time to show a steady ADSL light (corresponding to "LCP is allowed to
come up" in the log) is constant 19 seconds. There is then a variable time
for CHAP authentication to succeed, presumably dependent on how long it
takes my ISP (PlusNet) to validate the logon.

On 15 Nov 2006, "Trev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> You could get a UPS and stop the router from being powered off.
>
>True, but probably overkill for my needs. There is always the 0845 dial-up
>if really necessary.

understood, but some low cost UPS are under 50 quid, and the low power use
of a router should be handled for several hours (just make sure you don't
plug anything else in as well, just in case... a laptop running off its
internal battery, and using a cable connection into the router would be
an ideal option, if power disruptions were ever to be more commonplace
(where my Mum was living they seemed quite common, but she just went
to bed and put the {battery} radio on for company!)

"NoNeedToKnow" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 15 Nov 2006, "Trev" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
[..]

> Has Zen suggested anything?

I haven't put this specific question to them, yet, though I have mentioned
the problem many times when they go through the "Have you reset the router?"
routine in the process of getting my connection to work at all...

> In the case of my friends, I was told that a
> week or so ago the SNR level was increased (from the default 6 db level)
> so the exchange will attempt to sync with a higher threshold of signal
> against noise, with the resulting lower sync speed. I was speaking
> to one of the family last week (24 hours into this increased level)
> and suggested they monitor how stable the connection was over weekend,
> rather than try to get suggestions for "improvement" from me without them
> seeing the difference over a longer period - 24 hours seemed far too short
> IMO for them to know if it really was being more stable or not...
>
> After all, it was the problem _once down_ of not coming back online for
> several hours which was their _significant_ problem, and speed was a
> secondary issue.

Exactly.

> They've even been tempted to switch ISP (to go back to
> a 'stable' 2000 kbps) if Zen won't let them (I am unsure whether Zen will
> allow it, and indeed I don't know what speed they were on before they
> asked
> to go to DSL Max - it was their pushy son {age 12, I think} who pestered
> for them to get a faster connection, and all have hated the effect of the
> switch, though from past checks they did previously have a poor stability
> level, IMO, but the reconnections were prompt, whilst with DSL Max it was
> taking hours at a time to get back online).

Interesting. I switched from Home 250, which had become unusable although it
was OK a year ago. But it always took hours to sync after a reset.

>
> There are also some electric fences in the areas around them, which may
> have had some detrimental effects, and that's another area which they
> were going to investigate... so different, but also problematic,
> and you're not alone !!

Thanks!