How long does it take.....

to get a refund for downtime?

Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.

I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
time' and that's all.

Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.

Thanks

"user" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
> to get a refund for downtime?
>
> Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
> was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
> things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.
>
> I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
> the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
> take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
> still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
> time' and that's all.
>
> Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
> to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.
>
> Thanks

BT are bloody useless. That is the long and the short of it.

"steeler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

:
:"user" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
:news:(E-Mail Removed). ..
:> to get a refund for downtime?
:>
:> Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
:> was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
:> things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.
:>
:> I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
:> the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
:> take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
:> still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
:> time' and that's all.
:>
:> Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
:> to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.
:>
:> Thanks
:
:BT are bloody useless. That is the long and the short of it.
:
Thanks, found out how useless they are over the failed migration,
insisting there was no problem with the line or authenticating for 6
1/2 weeks, then suddenly one day decided that there was a problem
authenticating and fixed it in a couple of hours!! Go figure.

Suppose I will be waiting for hell to freeze over before getting back
the money I paid for the ADSL not received.

Cheers

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, user
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>to get a refund for downtime?
>
>Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
>was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
>things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.
>
>I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
>the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
>take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
>still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
>time' and that's all.
>
>Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
>to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.
>
>Thanks

I am assuming that the "refund" is a refund of the charges Entanet made
for the period you were without broadband service, and not
"compensation" over and above that.

If my assumption is correct, then as the contract for service is between
you and Entanet, I think they should have refunded you already. Your
contract is not with BT wholesale (BTW) and hence your right to a refund
is nothing to do with BTW.

Whether Etanet can claim some or all of any money they had paid to BTW
during the period you were without service is between them and BTW (and
presumably depends on exactly why, and whose responsibility it was, you
were in that position). You should not have to wait while they negotiate
money out of BTW.

The implication of their response is that when they get it back they are
going to refund to you the money they paid to BT for your connection -
not the money you paid to them. The two sums are very different as you
pay them not only for the BT wholesale connection, but also a share of
their big pipes, the internal costs for the administration and operation
of their services and the profit they make. You want all of that back,
not just the BTW component.

The only reason I can see for a lengthy delay would be if BT wholesale
are disputing whether or not you were receiving service during that
period.

If Entanet have already agreed that you did not receive service from
them, then you should get your refund from them. A formal complain about
the delay in payment suggesting that you will be following the Ofcom
escalation process might get some action (see the Ofcom site) .

The alternative is if you have an admission from Entanet that they did
not deliver the service, stick a small claim through the online court
system (or at least threaten to).

There may be issues between Etanet and BTW, but they can't use them as
an excuse not to pay you. Your contract is with them.

Regards
--
Peter R Cook

"Invalid" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8mMpdADQgSfGFw$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, user
> <(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>>to get a refund for downtime?
>>
>>Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
>>was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
>>things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.
>>
>>I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
>>the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
>>take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
>>still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
>>time' and that's all.
>>
>>Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
>>to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.
>>
>>Thanks
>
> I am assuming that the "refund" is a refund of the charges Entanet made
> for the period you were without broadband service, and not "compensation"
> over and above that.
>
> If my assumption is correct, then as the contract for service is between
> you and Entanet, I think they should have refunded you already. Your
> contract is not with BT wholesale (BTW) and hence your right to a refund
> is nothing to do with BTW.
>
> Whether Etanet can claim some or all of any money they had paid to BTW
> during the period you were without service is between them and BTW (and
> presumably depends on exactly why, and whose responsibility it was, you
> were in that position). You should not have to wait while they negotiate
> money out of BTW.
>
> The implication of their response is that when they get it back they are
> going to refund to you the money they paid to BT for your connection -
> not the money you paid to them. The two sums are very different as you pay
> them not only for the BT wholesale connection, but also a share of their
> big pipes, the internal costs for the administration and operation of
> their services and the profit they make. You want all of that back, not
> just the BTW component.
>
> The only reason I can see for a lengthy delay would be if BT wholesale are
> disputing whether or not you were receiving service during that period.
>
> If Entanet have already agreed that you did not receive service from them,
> then you should get your refund from them. A formal complain about the
> delay in payment suggesting that you will be following the Ofcom
> escalation process might get some action (see the Ofcom site) .
>
> The alternative is if you have an admission from Entanet that they did not
> deliver the service, stick a small claim through the online court system
> (or at least threaten to).
>
> There may be issues between Etanet and BTW, but they can't use them as an
> excuse not to pay you. Your contract is with them.
>
> Regards
> --
> Peter R Cook

Have to agree with all of this. The contract is with you and your service
provider, not BTW. It seems like your provider have managed to bullshit you
for the best part of 4 months that it is all big bad BT's fault. I suggest
you issue a County Court Summons against your SP, that usually does the
trick.

As for BT being 'bloody useless', I don't agree. They do as they are
instructed to do in the compliance framework they are obliged to by Ofcom.
If BT were to switch off their whole network (copper and fibre), you would
soon seen just how useful they actually are and just how much stuff relies
makes use of the them. I suggest it is your choice in SP's that is, to use
your phrase 'Bloody useless'.

In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, user
<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
>"steeler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>:
>:"user" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>:news:(E-Mail Removed) ...
>:> to get a refund for downtime?
>:>
>:> Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
>:> was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
>:> things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.
>:>
>:> I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
>:> the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
>:> take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
>:> still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
>:> time' and that's all.
>:>
>:> Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
>:> to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.
>:>
>:> Thanks
>:
>:BT are bloody useless. That is the long and the short of it.
>:
>Thanks, found out how useless they are over the failed migration,
>insisting there was no problem with the line or authenticating for 6
>1/2 weeks, then suddenly one day decided that there was a problem
>authenticating and fixed it in a couple of hours!! Go figure.
>
>Suppose I will be waiting for hell to freeze over before getting back
>the money I paid for the ADSL not received.
>
>Cheers
Interesting.

Are you quite sure it was BTW who found there was a problem and fixed
it? It's not exactly unknown for ISP's to pass on the blame for their
own problems to BTW!

(AIUI) The authentication process is a joint venture between BT and the
ISP. A problem at either would cause authentication to fail.

(From http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/equip2.htm#authentication)
"The BT RADIUS server authenticates the domain part of the username and
from this determines the ISP's Central and associated router. The ISP's
RADIUS then authenticates the enduser by their username and password.
Once both of these have been verified an IP address is assigned to the
user."

I suspect the discussion between BTW and Entanet concerns exactly which
bit of the authentication was failing!! If it was BTW's identification
and routing of your connection as an Entanet customer, then Entanet
would certainly be entitled to ask for a refund of the charges they paid
to BTW for a working service on your behalf. If on the other hand it
turned out to be Entanet's authentication of your account and password
that was at fault, then BTW would claim that they had met the terms of
their contract with Entanet - and (rightly) want paying.

In either case (as I said in a previous post) your contract is with
Entanet - your refund is their responsibility. Chase them, don't be
fobbed off by them passing on responsibility to BTW. BTW can't and won't
pay you any money - you don't have a contract with them.
--
Peter R Cook

In news: (E-Mail Removed) - user wrote :
>> to get a refund for downtime?
>>
>> Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
>> was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
>> things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.
>>
>> I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
>> the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
>> take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
>> still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
>> time' and that's all.
>>
>> Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
>> to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.
>>
>> Thanks

Talk to Etanet not the resell it's Etanet that will refund you not the
resell or BT.

Chris

--
Cheap As Chips Broadband http://yeah.kick-butt.co.uk
Superb hosting & domain name deals http://host.kick-butt.co.uk

Invalid <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

:In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, user
:<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
:>"steeler" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:>
:>:
:>:"user" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
:>:news:(E-Mail Removed) t...
:>:> to get a refund for downtime?
:>:>
:>:> Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
:>:> was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
:>:> things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.
:>:>
:>:> I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
:>:> the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
:>:> take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
:>:> still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
:>:> time' and that's all.
:>:>
:>:> Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
:>:> to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.
:>:>
:>:> Thanks
:>:
:>:BT are bloody useless. That is the long and the short of it.
:>:
:>Thanks, found out how useless they are over the failed migration,
:>insisting there was no problem with the line or authenticating for 6
:>1/2 weeks, then suddenly one day decided that there was a problem
:>authenticating and fixed it in a couple of hours!! Go figure.
:>
:>Suppose I will be waiting for hell to freeze over before getting back
:>the money I paid for the ADSL not received.
:>
:>Cheers
:Interesting.
:
:Are you quite sure it was BTW who found there was a problem and fixed
:it? It's not exactly unknown for ISP's to pass on the blame for their
wn problems to BTW!
:
AIUI) The authentication process is a joint venture between BT and the
:ISP. A problem at either would cause authentication to fail.
:
From http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/equip2.htm#authentication)
:"The BT RADIUS server authenticates the domain part of the username and
:from this determines the ISP's Central and associated router. The ISP's
:RADIUS then authenticates the enduser by their username and password.
:Once both of these have been verified an IP address is assigned to the
:user."

Problem was, as I remember, I could not even get past BT's radius.
Entanet could not even see me trying to logon. They could logon using
my details, but I could not. AFAIK it was BT's identification and
routing which caused the problem. There was no problem with the logon
details, all was correct.

:If on the other hand it
:turned out to be Entanet's authentication of your account and password
:that was at fault, then BTW would claim that they had met the terms of
:their contract with Entanet - and (rightly) want paying.

That's fair enough.

:In either case (as I said in a previous post) your contract is with
:Entanet - your refund is their responsibility. Chase them, don't be
:fobbed off by them passing on responsibility to BTW. BTW can't and won't
ay you any money - you don't have a contract with them.

Thanks, I will have to contact them again and chase it up.

Cheers

Invalid <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

:In message <(E-Mail Removed)>, user
:<(E-Mail Removed)> writes
:>to get a refund for downtime?
:>
:>Middle of January I migrated out from Zen to Entanet [UKFSN] but it
:>was a failed migration and was 'offline' for nearly 7 weeks while
:>things went backwards and forwards between BT and Entanet.
:>
:>I know Entanet have put it forward to BT wholesale for a refund for
:>the downtime due to failed migration, but exactly how long does it
:>take to come through, as it is now near enough 4 months later and
:>still no refund. Have asked Entanet, but all you get is 'it takes
:>time' and that's all.
:>
:>Just wondering if others here have been through the process of having
:>to be refunded for downtime, how long they had to wait.
:>
:>Thanks
:
:I am assuming that the "refund" is a refund of the charges Entanet made
:for the period you were without broadband service, and not
:"compensation" over and above that.

Yes, you are correct.

<sniped but read thoroughly>

:If Entanet have already agreed that you did not receive service from
:them, then you should get your refund from them. A formal complain about
:the delay in payment suggesting that you will be following the Ofcom
:escalation process might get some action (see the Ofcom site) .

Yes I have all the emails regarding the downtime and also the email
stating that my connection was 'fixed'.

I will have a good look at Ofcom's web site and take the matter up
with them after the weekend.

:The alternative is if you have an admission from Entanet that they did
:not deliver the service, stick a small claim through the online court
:system (or at least threaten to).

OK, thanks for the advice, I will take this on board if I am forced
down this road.

:There may be issues between Etanet and BTW, but they can't use them as
:an excuse not to pay you. Your contract is with them.

Agreed.

:Regards

Many thanks Peter for the very useful information, I will take your
suggestions on board and try to sort this out.

"Marc Eting" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:
:Have to agree with all of this. The contract is with you and your service
rovider, not BTW. It seems like your provider have managed to bullshit you
:for the best part of 4 months that it is all big bad BT's fault. I suggest
:you issue a County Court Summons against your SP, that usually does the
:trick.

Thank you for your comments, appreciated.