long distance non line of sight (no antenna) indoor solutions?

Trying to connect TWO ground level indoor city office suite that are
20 miles (32 km) apart wirelessly. They are not in line of sight. At
one site, no equipment can be placed outdoor, and no antenna can be
put up. Ideally no outdoor equipment or antenna at second site either.
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
(I initially looked at proxim tsunami 10, but kinda expensive, etc...)

leased lines?

"John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Trying to connect TWO ground level indoor city office suite that are
> 20 miles (32 km) apart wirelessly. They are not in line of sight. At
> one site, no equipment can be placed outdoor, and no antenna can be
> put up. Ideally no outdoor equipment or antenna at second site either.
> Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
> (I initially looked at proxim tsunami 10, but kinda expensive, etc...)

John wrote:
> Trying to connect TWO ground level indoor city office suite that are
> 20 miles (32 km) apart wirelessly. They are not in line of sight. At
> one site, no equipment can be placed outdoor, and no antenna can be
> put up. Ideally no outdoor equipment or antenna at second site either.
> Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
> (I initially looked at proxim tsunami 10, but kinda expensive, etc...)

Depending on your location, we are in an area that has Verizon
BroadbandAccess (avg 500 Kb) and have the Audivox pc5220 cards at each end
(along with VPN software) always on x.25 wireless connection. When we want
to add additional offices, or people with laptops, no problem, takes about a
day to set up a new system.
In case you are curious, it's a real estate firm, we keep adding offices in
new areas, and the agents love mobile access to the network with their
laptops.

Thanks for the replies, we are hoping to get away from paying monthly
fee of the leased lines or wireless service providers. From my
understanding the Verizon service will require the computer to connect
to the tele-co's cell network then to your own company's VPN via
internet. But, thanks for the info; if anyone can suggest something
else (another product, etc), it would be great.

"Peter Pan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
> John wrote:
> > Trying to connect TWO ground level indoor city office suite that are
> > 20 miles (32 km) apart wirelessly. They are not in line of sight. At
> > one site, no equipment can be placed outdoor, and no antenna can be
> > put up. Ideally no outdoor equipment or antenna at second site either.
> > Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
> > (I initially looked at proxim tsunami 10, but kinda expensive, etc...)
>
> Depending on your location, we are in an area that has Verizon
> BroadbandAccess (avg 500 Kb) and have the Audivox pc5220 cards at each end
> (along with VPN software) always on x.25 wireless connection. When we want
> to add additional offices, or people with laptops, no problem, takes about a
> day to set up a new system.
> In case you are curious, it's a real estate firm, we keep adding offices in
> new areas, and the agents love mobile access to the network with their
> laptops.

Is there anywhere part way that both can see (tall buildings/mountains/etc?)
Out west we use reapeters to get an indirect line of sight...Any possibility
of that for your situation?


John wrote:
> Thanks for the replies, we are hoping to get away from paying monthly
> fee of the leased lines or wireless service providers. From my
> understanding the Verizon service will require the computer to connect
> to the tele-co's cell network then to your own company's VPN via
> internet. But, thanks for the info; if anyone can suggest something
> else (another product, etc), it would be great.
>
> "Peter Pan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:<(E-Mail Removed)>...
>> John wrote:
>>> Trying to connect TWO ground level indoor city office suite that are
>>> 20 miles (32 km) apart wirelessly. They are not in line of sight. At
>>> one site, no equipment can be placed outdoor, and no antenna can be
>>> put up. Ideally no outdoor equipment or antenna at second site
>>> either. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
>>> (I initially looked at proxim tsunami 10, but kinda expensive,
>>> etc...)
>>
>> Depending on your location, we are in an area that has Verizon
>> BroadbandAccess (avg 500 Kb) and have the Audivox pc5220 cards at
>> each end (along with VPN software) always on x.25 wireless
>> connection. When we want to add additional offices, or people with
>> laptops, no problem, takes about a day to set up a new system.
>> In case you are curious, it's a real estate firm, we keep adding
>> offices in new areas, and the agents love mobile access to the
>> network with their laptops.

(E-Mail Removed) (John) wrote in news:8280e9ff.0502251006.2dfca8c6
@posting.google.com:

> Trying to connect TWO ground level indoor city office suite that are
> 20 miles (32 km) apart wirelessly. They are not in line of sight. At
> one site, no equipment can be placed outdoor, and no antenna can be
> put up. Ideally no outdoor equipment or antenna at second site either.
> Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
> (I initially looked at proxim tsunami 10, but kinda expensive, etc...)

there is absolutely no way this will work w/o outdoor antenna's.

Even the Proxim Tsunami's will require external antennas and LOS.

"John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Trying to connect TWO ground level indoor city office suite that are
> 20 miles (32 km) apart wirelessly. They are not in line of sight. At
> one site, no equipment can be placed outdoor, and no antenna can be
> put up. Ideally no outdoor equipment or antenna at second site either.
> Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
> (I initially looked at proxim tsunami 10, but kinda expensive, etc...)

Due to my lack of knowledge and faulty understanding, I just figured
the device can use their case as an antenna, or work without an
antenna. As an aside, I also get confused with terms such as: 0dbi
gain antenna, build-in antenna, integrated antenna, embedded antenna,
etc. Got lots to learn... Ideally, I am looking for a set of device to
wirelessly connect my indoor suite that's 20 miles away; that has no
line of sight, using only small-short build-in/integrated/embedded
antenna from the device. Many thanks for for your suggestions and
solutions.

"DLink Guru" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<UibUd.40607$EL5.1388@trnddc05>...
> Even the Proxim Tsunami's will require external antennas and LOS.
>
> "John" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > Trying to connect TWO ground level indoor city office suite that are
> > 20 miles (32 km) apart wirelessly. They are not in line of sight. At
> > one site, no equipment can be placed outdoor, and no antenna can be
> > put up. Ideally no outdoor equipment or antenna at second site either.
> > Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.
> > (I initially looked at proxim tsunami 10, but kinda expensive, etc...)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:39:56 -0800, John wrote:

> Due to my lack of knowledge and faulty understanding, I just figured the
> device can use their case as an antenna, or work without an antenna. As an
> aside, I also get confused with terms such as: 0dbi gain antenna, build-in
> antenna, integrated antenna, embedded antenna, etc. Got lots to learn...
> Ideally, I am looking for a set of device to wirelessly connect my indoor
> suite that's 20 miles away; that has no line of sight, using only
> small-short build-in/integrated/embedded antenna from the device. Many
> thanks for for your suggestions and solutions.

To cover a 20 mile path via wireless you will need outdoor antennas. Even
with a repeater on a mountain/building near the mid-way point of your
path, you will still need to have an outdoor antenna above and away to
protect everyone from RF exposure.

Though some products like the Orthogon Systems Gemini radios will work
non-line-of-sight, there still has to be an RF path--I don't think they
will be too successful installed at ground level at that distance. You can
learn more at http://www.orthogonsystems.com My company is installing some
of these and they work as an Ethernet bridge. What each radio sees on the
wire goes out the antenna and what is received at the antenna is put on
the wire. They can tie two hubs together thus bridging two offices on the
same segment/subnet or be tied to a router at each end, or whatever.

- Nate >>

--

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds,
the pessimist fears this is true."

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. At this time, I guess it's
just not possible to get "a set of device to wirelessly connect my
indoor suite that's 20 miles away; that has no line of sight, using
only small-short build-in/integrated/embedded/internal antenna from
the device". It seems, if no (or almost no) antenna is a must, then
the best solutions today is to go thru the big teleco's cell network
(a middleman's network with monthly fees) into the internet then
connect the two sites together. Thank you.