Line too long would ordering a new line help?

Hello,

I live about 3km from the exchange but apparantly my line is around 7km in
length. The odd thing is that the postcode checker says that I should be
able to get broadband. Looking at the exchange map on the BT site shows
that I'm connected to the nearest exchange so my line must loop around
several neighbouring streets before getting to me.

If I ordered a new line would that come in any shorter? Can I specify
that's it's ADSL and if it still can't be used for ADSL can I get BT to
refund?

Or am I left with dial up forever.........

I'd consider midband if it wasn't so expensive.

Dave.

"Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blgoe4$i21$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello,
>
> I live about 3km from the exchange but apparantly my line is around 7km in
> length. The odd thing is that the postcode checker says that I should be
> able to get broadband. Looking at the exchange map on the BT site shows
> that I'm connected to the nearest exchange so my line must loop around
> several neighbouring streets before getting to me.
>
> If I ordered a new line would that come in any shorter? Can I specify
> that's it's ADSL and if it still can't be used for ADSL can I get BT to
> refund?
>
> Or am I left with dial up forever.........
>
> I'd consider midband if it wasn't so expensive.
>
> Dave.
>
>

"Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blgoe4$i21$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello,
>
> I live about 3km from the exchange but apparantly my line is around 7km in
> length. The odd thing is that the postcode checker says that I should be
> able to get broadband. Looking at the exchange map on the BT site shows
> that I'm connected to the nearest exchange so my line must loop around
> several neighbouring streets before getting to me.
>
> If I ordered a new line would that come in any shorter? Can I specify
> that's it's ADSL and if it still can't be used for ADSL can I get BT to
> refund?
>
> Or am I left with dial up forever.........
>
> I'd consider midband if it wasn't so expensive.

Oops - sorry for the first blank post - my finger bounced on the button when
clicking on reply, and the message box that came up had the Send button
where my pointer was, so when the finger bounced, it clicked on that button
as well!

Anyway - Being 3km (as the crow flies) from the exchange is very different
from actual path that your line takes. Its not the distance which is what
they measure, its the loss on the line, which is approximately 1dB per km.
Old limit was 5.5dB, now its 6dB.

A new phone line will most likely be taken from a box in your street, which
would have very similar losses to your existing one. I believe that BT do
not guarantee any line is ADSL compatible and therefore if you order one and
it doesn't meet the required loss, then you've got no comeback.

D

Hi,

In the same boat with the Postcode checker & then finding out I am just
slightly over the maximum Db loss level/distance. Bad news as I already
ordered my modem & splitters.....?!

When I spoke to BT they said they were going to be trailing another method
to get past this problem, but did not seem to think anything meaningful
would be forthcoming this side of Christmas. Until then I am one of the
doomed 6% (where does this figure spring from, is it just encompassing the
ADSL enabled areas because there a many people still fighting to get their
exchanges enabled) on an ADSL enabled exchange area, but over distance.

I would also question if it is financially worth it for BT to
investigate/resolve the problem for just 6% revenue increase, but don't have
access to the figures/logic.

Suppose if this allows future users in more remote areas to order earlier it
may make sense............

Dazzlin


"Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blgoe4$i21$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hello,
>
> I live about 3km from the exchange but apparantly my line is around 7km in
> length. The odd thing is that the postcode checker says that I should be
> able to get broadband. Looking at the exchange map on the BT site shows
> that I'm connected to the nearest exchange so my line must loop around
> several neighbouring streets before getting to me.
>
> If I ordered a new line would that come in any shorter? Can I specify
> that's it's ADSL and if it still can't be used for ADSL can I get BT to
> refund?
>
> Or am I left with dial up forever.........
>
> I'd consider midband if it wasn't so expensive.
>
> Dave.
>
>

"Dazzlin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blh25v$gpd$(E-Mail Removed)...
> When I spoke to BT they said they were going to be trailing another method
> to get past this problem, but did not seem to think anything meaningful
> would be forthcoming this side of Christmas. Until then I am one of the
> doomed 6% (where does this figure spring from, is it just encompassing the
> ADSL enabled areas because there a many people still fighting to get their
> exchanges enabled) on an ADSL enabled exchange area, but over distance.
>
> I would also question if it is financially worth it for BT to
> investigate/resolve the problem for just 6% revenue increase, but don't
have
> access to the figures/logic.

The 6% was indeed an average and did come from all ADSL enabled exchanges
(from information supplied by BT to OFTEL)

I don't know how long ago you spoke to BT but the figure has actually been
reduced to 3% now after BT altered the maximum Db level they would accept to
provide a 512Kb service.

BT altered their line test limits at midday on the 24th September - so if
you failed with an order placed before then I suggest you reorder and see if
you pass under their new line loss limits.

Regards
Sunil

"Dazzlin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blh25v$gpd$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi,
>
> In the same boat with the Postcode checker & then finding out I am just
> slightly over the maximum Db loss level/distance. Bad news as I already
> ordered my modem & splitters.....?!
>
> When I spoke to BT they said they were going to be trailing another method
> to get past this problem, but did not seem to think anything meaningful
> would be forthcoming this side of Christmas. Until then I am one of the
> doomed 6% (where does this figure spring from, is it just encompassing the
> ADSL enabled areas because there a many people still fighting to get their
> exchanges enabled) on an ADSL enabled exchange area, but over distance.

Ooooh, that's quite exciting. I'm sure it's more complicated that this but
why can't they fit signal boosters into the outlying junction boxes?

>
> I would also question if it is financially worth it for BT to
> investigate/resolve the problem for just 6% revenue increase, but don't
have
> access to the figures/logic.
>
> Suppose if this allows future users in more remote areas to order earlier
it
> may make sense............

I suspect the government have a fair bit to do with how much trouble BT has
to go to.

>
> Dazzlin
>
>
> "Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:blgoe4$i21$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I live about 3km from the exchange but apparantly my line is around 7km
in
> > length. The odd thing is that the postcode checker says that I should
be
> > able to get broadband. Looking at the exchange map on the BT site shows
> > that I'm connected to the nearest exchange so my line must loop around
> > several neighbouring streets before getting to me.
> >
> > If I ordered a new line would that come in any shorter? Can I specify
> > that's it's ADSL and if it still can't be used for ADSL can I get BT to
> > refund?
> >
> > Or am I left with dial up forever.........
> >
> > I'd consider midband if it wasn't so expensive.
> >
> > Dave.
> >
> >
>
>

"Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blh662$m2$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > When I spoke to BT they said they were going to be trailing another
method
> > to get past this problem, but did not seem to think anything meaningful
> > would be forthcoming this side of Christmas. Until then I am one of the
> > doomed 6% (where does this figure spring from, is it just encompassing
the
> > ADSL enabled areas because there a many people still fighting to get
their
> > exchanges enabled) on an ADSL enabled exchange area, but over distance.
>
> Ooooh, that's quite exciting. I'm sure it's more complicated that this
but
> why can't they fit signal boosters into the outlying junction boxes?

Expense - would cost about $500 for a signal booster and they would have to
be fitted *per line*

Regards
Sunil

"David Hearn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blh017$461$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:blgoe4$i21$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hello,
> >
> > I live about 3km from the exchange but apparantly my line is around 7km
in
> > length. The odd thing is that the postcode checker says that I should
be
> > able to get broadband. Looking at the exchange map on the BT site shows
> > that I'm connected to the nearest exchange so my line must loop around
> > several neighbouring streets before getting to me.
> >
> > If I ordered a new line would that come in any shorter? Can I specify
> > that's it's ADSL and if it still can't be used for ADSL can I get BT to
> > refund?
> >
> > Or am I left with dial up forever.........
> >
> > I'd consider midband if it wasn't so expensive.
>
> Oops - sorry for the first blank post - my finger bounced on the button
when
> clicking on reply, and the message box that came up had the Send button
> where my pointer was, so when the finger bounced, it clicked on that
button
> as well!
>
> Anyway - Being 3km (as the crow flies) from the exchange is very different
> from actual path that your line takes. Its not the distance which is what
> they measure, its the loss on the line, which is approximately 1dB per km.
> Old limit was 5.5dB, now its 6dB.
>
> A new phone line will most likely be taken from a box in your street,
which
> would have very similar losses to your existing one. I believe that BT do
> not guarantee any line is ADSL compatible and therefore if you order one
and
> it doesn't meet the required loss, then you've got no comeback.
>
> D
>
>

That's not *strictly* true, if you specify at the time of ordering that the
line is specifically for
ADSL use only then you do have some comeback. I failed my initial line test,
ordered a second
line (which subsequently failed) and managed to get all my money
back...here's what I did -

1) Call up the sales people, order your new line and *specifically* says
that you want it for
ADSL use only and if it doesn't pass the line tests then you'll want the
line removed and the charges
dropped and that you want that clause on the order sheet. If Operator #1
says they can't
do that, end the call politely and try again...it took me about 3 goes
before I got an operator who
would accept that clause (she also confirmed that it wasn't the first time
she'd had someone request it).

2) Call back the next day under some pretext or other and during the course
of your conversation ask the
Operator to confirm what is written on your order...this is important
because you need to 100% confirm that
the ADSL clause is actually in there.

3) Sit patiently and wait for your installation date, when it arrives make
lots of cups of tea/coffee for the Engineer
since its not his fault that your first line failed the test.

4) Now here's where you might feel like banging your head against the
wall....it seems that new lines *may* take
up to 42 days to be registered within BT's online ADSL suitability checker.
Now since many ISP's use this (or other systems
linked to this) your ISP might fail at the first hurdle to even confirm your
line *might* pass the test. The trick here is to
hassle your ISP (politely) to get a manual check done...be persistent here,
the ISP will blame BT, but the ISP *can*
get it done....mine did eventually. Otherwise the alternative is to wait up
to 42 days to find out your new line has failed too...very annoying!

5) If all's well, you now have a working ADSL line, congratulations. If
not...then like me, you now have to start trying to get your
money back....take a deep breath, think calming thoughts...and dial BT again

6) The "trick" here is to be calm, polite and knowledgeable. Being angry
won't get you anywhere....knowing your facts will. Explain
to the operator what has happened. Tell them that since you stated at the
time of ordering that the line had to be suitable for ADSL or you didn't
want to pay for it. If you're *very* lucky they'll say "no problem, I'll do
that for you now"....if you're not so lucky they'll say "I'll have to speak
to
my supervisor". At which point the supervisor will say "We don't do that".

This is where being calm and polite comes into play, just state clearly
again that they shouldn't have taken your order if they could not fulfil
their
side of the "deal". Again, if you're lucky the supervisor will agree and
you'll get your refund, if not...then it's time to have some fun....

Tell them that according to their *own* website, BT say they will refund all
money if the Broadband service can't be provided....this will invariable
be followed by a pause...some muttering at the other end of the
line...followed by "where does it say that?"......

You can then point them at a section on their website (which isn't at all
easy to find..but persistence always pays off in the end) which states -

"BT's Conditions for Telephone Service will apply to provision of
telephony service, subject to the following modifications, which applies
only where BT determines that a PSTN line is ordered solely for
the purpose of accessing the BT Broadband service:

(i) if, following line test it is discovered that BT Broadband Service
cannot be provided,
BT will allow the Customer to terminate the PSTN service without paying
the relevant cancellation charges, and refund any connection charges paid.
However, BT will bill for any use of the telephony service in the interim."

(I can provide the link for anyway who *needs* it...I don't wish to post it
directly here incase it's "moved" to a less easy to find place!).

Now here they may argue that you didn't order the BT Broadband service (if
you went for another ISP as I did), at which point you start to mutter the
words "monopoly" and "OFTEL"....at this point the Supervisor decided I was
taking up far too much of their time and agreed to *fully* refund all my
charges.

The moral of the story is....its by no means *guaranteed* that you can get
your money back, the point is that BT's own rules and wordings make it
sufficiently ambiguous enough for you to pursue it.

Hope this helps,

John.

"John Edward Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blh8kk$btf2v$(E-Mail Removed)...
> 4) Now here's where you might feel like banging your head against the
> wall....it seems that new lines *may* take
> up to 42 days to be registered within BT's online ADSL suitability
checker.

The latest version of BT's ADSL checker normally updates this sort of
information with 24 hours.

Regards
Sunil

"Sunil Sood" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:blhc3d$c67uh$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "John Edward Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:blh8kk$btf2v$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > 4) Now here's where you might feel like banging your head against the
> > wall....it seems that new lines *may* take
> > up to 42 days to be registered within BT's online ADSL suitability
> checker.
>
> The latest version of BT's ADSL checker normally updates this sort of
> information with 24 hours.
>
> Regards
> Sunil
>
>

Glad to hear they've changed it...it certainly didn't a few months back when
I was going through "the process"