Line length and ADSL

I'm living in a new place (since yesterday) and the ADSL speed is awful:
despite being 2.5 km from the exchange my line length is 8.5 km -
attenuation downstream is 57 db and noise margin is 6 to 8.

I get a master socket synch speed of 3200 kbps with drop outs.

There's no identified fault on the line. I also find that I am tied to
another 12 month contract simply because I have changed my address.

I have a suspicion that my low speed and high attenuation is due to poor
underground cable between house and street cabinet. I've flogged this dead
horse before.

I have called BT twice and got two different answers to contract
cancellation: one was that I would have to pay the remaining line rental for
12 months. The other was that I would only have to pay a £30 fee for
cancellation in the first month.

With Virgin citing speeds of 50 mbps surely it is a no brainer to forget
ADSL?

"Gareth" <hotmail.com@dgareth_remove.com> wrote in message
news:4cd96b57$0$2510$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I'm living in a new place (since yesterday) and the ADSL speed is awful:
> despite being 2.5 km from the exchange my line length is 8.5 km -
> attenuation downstream is 57 db and noise margin is 6 to 8.
>
> I get a master socket synch speed of 3200 kbps with drop outs.
>
> There's no identified fault on the line. I also find that I am tied to
> another 12 month contract simply because I have changed my address.
>
> I have a suspicion that my low speed and high attenuation is due to poor
> underground cable between house and street cabinet. I've flogged this dead
> horse before.
>
> I have called BT twice and got two different answers to contract
> cancellation: one was that I would have to pay the remaining line rental
> for 12 months. The other was that I would only have to pay a £30 fee for
> cancellation in the first month.
>
> With Virgin citing speeds of 50 mbps surely it is a no brainer to forget
> ADSL?

The route used for the BT cable from the exchange to your house may well not
be the most direct - for all sorts of obscure and possibly historical
reasons.

But for a line length of 8.5km I would suggests that your performance
figures are very reasonable. With a good ISP you might get them to resolve
the intermittent faults. The underground cable might be the cause; and
nobody will ever know because if it is resolved the Openreach method will be
by replacement rather than actually measuring the performance of the cable
over time - arguably blind replacement is cheaper.

Whether BT have an alternative cable route to your property might be very
difficult to find out. Very probably they have not; in which case they
would only create a new route for a suitably profitable customer, or one who
would be prepared to pay the real cost of laying the cable (possibly several
hundred thousand pounds, when you consider the need to dig up roads and the
like).

If it is available, FTTC would help. If Virgin can provide a cable service,
even better!

When you ordered the ADSL service, did you receive a speed estimate as part
of the order creation process? The ISPs I deal with provide this
information - I think because of an OFCOM directive telling them to do so.

If you didn't receive a speed estimate you might be able to use that as a
reason for cancellation.

--
Graham J

On 09/11/2010 15:40, Gareth wrote:
> I'm living in a new place (since yesterday) and the ADSL speed is awful:
> despite being 2.5 km from the exchange my line length is 8.5 km -
> attenuation downstream is 57 db and noise margin is 6 to 8.
>
> I get a master socket synch speed of 3200 kbps with drop outs.
>
> There's no identified fault on the line. I also find that I am tied to
> another 12 month contract simply because I have changed my address.
>
> I have a suspicion that my low speed and high attenuation is due to poor
> underground cable between house and street cabinet. I've flogged this
> dead horse before.
>
> I have called BT twice and got two different answers to contract
> cancellation: one was that I would have to pay the remaining line rental
> for 12 months. The other was that I would only have to pay a £30 fee for
> cancellation in the first month.
>
> With Virgin citing speeds of 50 mbps surely it is a no brainer to forget
> ADSL?

For that line length, the attenuation and speed is actually pretty good
(mine is similar but with a line length of only about 3.5 km.)
My router speed is about the same as yours with an actual, real-world
speed of about 2500kbps downstream.
If you can get Virgin cable in your area then perhaps it is a no-brainer
to go to them.
Unfortunately, millions of us - me included - are stuck with bad ol'
ADSL, due to living outside the main towns and cities, which are the
only places that Virgin cares to venture.

George

Gareth wrote:
> I'm living in a new place (since yesterday) and the ADSL speed is awful:
> despite being 2.5 km from the exchange my line length is 8.5 km -
> attenuation downstream is 57 db and noise margin is 6 to 8.
>

that is rather right on the limit for DSL..


> I get a master socket synch speed of 3200 kbps with drop outs.
>

you will. It will probably settle at about 2900 and 9dB with fewer dropouts.

You should expect a BRAS of about 2Mbps.

> There's no identified fault on the line. I also find that I am tied to
> another 12 month contract simply because I have changed my address.
>
> I have a suspicion that my low speed and high attenuation is due to poor
> underground cable between house and street cabinet. I've flogged this
> dead horse before.
>

I am not so sure.
2.5km is a long way..


> I have called BT twice and got two different answers to contract
> cancellation: one was that I would have to pay the remaining line rental
> for 12 months. The other was that I would only have to pay a £30 fee for
> cancellation in the first month.
>
> With Virgin citing speeds of 50 mbps surely it is a no brainer to forget
> ADSL?

If you have cable available, of course. But do you?

Virgin ain't digging up any streets...

"Michael Chare" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:-(E-Mail Removed).. .
> "Gareth" <hotmail.com@dgareth_remove.com> wrote in message news:4cd96b57$0$2510$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I'm living in a new place (since yesterday) and the ADSL speed is awful: despite being 2.5 km from the exchange my line length is
>> 8.5 km - attenuation downstream is 57 db and noise margin is 6 to 8.
>>
>> I get a master socket synch speed of 3200 kbps with drop outs.
>>
>
> Connecting to the master socket and using a filtered faceplate if you have extensions may improve matters.
>
>
>> With Virgin citing speeds of 50 mbps surely it is a no brainer to forget ADSL?
>
> If that was an option why did you not take it?

Behold. My lads VM performance at his student digs in Kensington, Liverpool

http://bbbbbbmm.netfirms.com/f8lure.jpg

The red areas indicate serious packet loss.
It's been like that every day since the start of term (I have the graphs to prove it)
Today is the first time I can say there has been any marked improvement, he has just about enough upload
throughput for me to hear him on Skype without his voice breaking up.
This is VM XXL 50Mb/s
The upload is so borked speedtest.net refuses to measure it most of the time.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
> "Michael Chare" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:-(E-Mail Removed).. .
>> "Gareth" <hotmail.com@dgareth_remove.com> wrote in message news:4cd96b57$0$2510$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> I'm living in a new place (since yesterday) and the ADSL speed is awful: despite being 2.5 km from the exchange my line length is
>>> 8.5 km - attenuation downstream is 57 db and noise margin is 6 to 8.
>>>
>>> I get a master socket synch speed of 3200 kbps with drop outs.
>>>
>> Connecting to the master socket and using a filtered faceplate if you have extensions may improve matters.
>>
>>
>>> With Virgin citing speeds of 50 mbps surely it is a no brainer to forget ADSL?
>> If that was an option why did you not take it?
>
> Behold. My lads VM performance at his student digs in Kensington, Liverpool
>
> http://bbbbbbmm.netfirms.com/f8lure.jpg
>
> The red areas indicate serious packet loss.
> It's been like that every day since the start of term (I have the graphs to prove it)
> Today is the first time I can say there has been any marked improvement, he has just about enough upload
> throughput for me to hear him on Skype without his voice breaking up.
> This is VM XXL 50Mb/s
> The upload is so borked speedtest.net refuses to measure it most of the time.
>
there ya go.

Cheap and fast = totally fucked.

In article <4cd96b57$0$2510$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gareth <hotmail.co
m@dgareth_remove.com> writes

>I'm living in a new place (since yesterday) and the ADSL speed is awful:
>despite being 2.5 km from the exchange my line length is 8.5 km -
>attenuation downstream is 57 db and noise margin is 6 to 8.
>
>I get a master socket synch speed of 3200 kbps with drop outs.

Which router are you using? Some are better at handling long lines than
others.

The Netgear DG834GT is well known for making the best of a poor line,
and is very tweakable with the DGTeam firmware. I got mine new from
fleabay for 2 quid. Branded $ky with $ky firmware but easy to re-flash.
Got to be worth a go for a couple quid.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 09/11/10 15:40, Gareth wrote:
> With Virgin citing speeds of 50 mbps surely it is a no brainer to forget
> ADSL?

Only if you can get it and are prepared to pay the premium for it.
Personally, I'm happy with paying £5.99pm for my ~6mbps ADSL.

"Mike Tomlinson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> In article <4cd96b57$0$2510$(E-Mail Removed)>, Gareth <hotmail.co
> m@dgareth_remove.com> writes
>
>>I'm living in a new place (since yesterday) and the ADSL speed is awful:
>>despite being 2.5 km from the exchange my line length is 8.5 km -
>>attenuation downstream is 57 db and noise margin is 6 to 8.
>>
>>I get a master socket synch speed of 3200 kbps with drop outs.
>
> Which router are you using? Some are better at handling long lines than
> others.
>
> The Netgear DG834GT is well known for making the best of a poor line,
> and is very tweakable with the DGTeam firmware. I got mine new from
> fleabay for 2 quid. Branded $ky with $ky firmware but easy to re-flash.
> Got to be worth a go for a couple quid.

I'm using a Netgear DGN2000. It's not as good feature wise as the DG834 but
it did give a better previous noise performance than the DG834 just before
my DG834 died.

I might try a different router just to clarify whether or not there is a
difference.

"Graham." <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ibcg0n$bk9$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> Behold. My lads VM performance at his student digs in Kensington,
> Liverpool
>
> http://bbbbbbmm.netfirms.com/f8lure.jpg
>
> The red areas indicate serious packet loss.

Surely this is a technical fault. Have you had any success in prompting
Virgin to fix it?