Line attenuation results

This is driving me mad. Can anyone advise as to how to actually get BT
to do a test and give me the line attenuation information?

I've been pushed around from department to department and all I ever
get is "you can't have Broadband", presumably (the exchange is
enabled) based on the line length, which the fault reporting people at
151 tell me is 6km. This is on the limit, and I know people very close
to where I live who have passed the test with longer line lengths, so
I'd like someone to actually do the test and tell me the results. I
know you used to be able to get this from 17070, but not any more.

Presumably any ISP I go to will just rely on this black or white
information without instituting a test from BT themselves?

And another thing......

I have two lines in my house. The original one, which is the 6km line,
and another one, used only for voice/fax, which was installed about a
year ago. I don't know the exact details of how the connections work,
but it was run from the green junction box around the corner, as, I
assume, is my original line. But the fault line department tell me the
second line is 8km from the exchange.

Am I right that, if its possible to have that kind of discrepancy for
two lines running to the same house, its also possible to reconnect
the second line (or even have a replacement third line installed) so
that it may be *less* than 6km? Until I get some sort of response on
the attenuation I don't know whether this will make any difference,
since, if the line is noisy, the noise could be further down the line.

Any advice on what I can do next?

Thanks

Brian

"bigbrian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> This is driving me mad. Can anyone advise as to how to actually get BT
> to do a test and give me the line attenuation information?

Don't ask BT for the line test results.

Apply for ADSL via an ISP and if you fail ask them if they will contact BT
Wholesale and ask for the results for you. (some, mainly smaller ISP's are
more willing to do this for you)

> I've been pushed around from department to department and all I ever
> get is "you can't have Broadband", presumably (the exchange is
> enabled) based on the line length, which the fault reporting people at
> 151 tell me is 6km. This is on the limit, and I know people very close
> to where I live who have passed the test with longer line lengths, so
> I'd like someone to actually do the test and tell me the results. I
> know you used to be able to get this from 17070, but not any more.
>
> Presumably any ISP I go to will just rely on this black or white
> information without instituting a test from BT themselves?

As I am sure you know, line distance is really irrelevant, its line quality
that counts.

ISP's will place an order for you but it sounds like you will be rejected by
BT's automated ordering system based on the records they have for your line.

The way to get around this and actually have a test carried out (if you fail
the "normal way") is to ask your ISP to carry out a "manual order" - this
means it bypasses the 1st stage of BT's automated ordering system and they
will carry out a physical test. (again some ISP's are more willing to do
"manual orders")

If you have no luck, BT are looking at seeing if it is "technically viable"
to extend the the limits further - though don't expect much on this soon

> I have two lines in my house. The original one, which is the 6km line,
> and another one, used only for voice/fax, which was installed about a
> year ago. I don't know the exact details of how the connections work,
> but it was run from the green junction box around the corner, as, I
> assume, is my original line. But the fault line department tell me the
> second line is 8km from the exchange.
>
> Am I right that, if its possible to have that kind of discrepancy for
> two lines running to the same house, its also possible to reconnect
> the second line (or even have a replacement third line installed) so
> that it may be *less* than 6km?

Yes, its possible.

Your only other choice is if you are a borderline fail, see if BT will
accept a order for a new telephone line which you specify "must be suitable
for ADSL use".

If BT install it (their choice) and its not suitable for ADSL - they will
remove it and you won't have to pay the installation charge for a new line

Regards
Sunil

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 15:51:03 +0000, bigbrian wrote:


> This is driving me mad. Can anyone advise as to how to actually get BT
> to do a test and give me the line attenuation information?
>
> I've been pushed around from department to department and all I ever get
> is "you can't have Broadband", presumably (the exchange is enabled)
> based on the line length, which the fault reporting people at 151 tell
> me is 6km. This is on the limit, and I know people very close to where I
> live who have passed the test with longer line lengths, so I'd like
> someone to actually do the test and tell me the results. I know you used
> to be able to get this from 17070, but not any more.
>
> Presumably any ISP I go to will just rely on this black or white
> information without instituting a test from BT themselves?
>
> And another thing......
>
> I have two lines in my house. The original one, which is the 6km line,
> and another one, used only for voice/fax, which was installed about a
> year ago. I don't know the exact details of how the connections work,
> but it was run from the green junction box around the corner, as, I
> assume, is my original line. But the fault line department tell me the
> second line is 8km from the exchange.
>
> Am I right that, if its possible to have that kind of discrepancy for
> two lines running to the same house, its also possible to reconnect the
> second line (or even have a replacement third line installed) so that
> it may be *less* than 6km? Until I get some sort of response on the
> attenuation I don't know whether this will make any difference, since,
> if the line is noisy, the noise could be further down the line.
>
> Any advice on what I can do next?
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian

Here's some idea of the gear that BT use:

http://www.tmcnet.com/bizwatch/news/091900e.htm

basically you spend 10 million dollars on Teradyne computerised digital signal
analysis equipment and point it at each line in turn. Line length itself
is of course merely indicative of likely signal quality not definitive,
10 million dollars buys you something more advanced than a tape measure.

Regards

Eric Lee

"bigbrian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> This is driving me mad. Can anyone advise as to how to actually get BT
> to do a test and give me the line attenuation information?
>
> I've been pushed around from department to department and all I ever
> get is "you can't have Broadband", presumably (the exchange is

I`m in the same predicament as yourself (see 5.65km thread below), i spent
most of the day being ushered around BT`s "Help" lines only to be told by an
"Expert" from their Broadband dept. that it`s black or white and you have to
accept the answer when you enter your phone number. They tell me that`s what
they do too! I`ve been in contact with Zen who also not surprisingly said
`No`, so i`ve asked them for more details from BT re. my line
noise/capacitance etc as Sunil suggests. I would have let this one go except
one of their more helpful tecchie guys informed me that my line length was
5.65km, we all know the limit now goes to 6km. I would indeed be surprised
if my line exceeds 60db, my dial-up is always over 45k.
But what to do now?? Could i contact my small local exchange directly or
what, BT`s Help Lines don`t want to be bothered.
I mentioned a `new` line to our Expert as well, only to be told it probably
wouldn`t be any better than what i have...............
Hope you have better luck!

rgds,
Roy.

satscene wrote:
> "bigbrian" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> This is driving me mad. Can anyone advise as to how to actually
>> get BT to do a test and give me the line attenuation information?
>>
>> I've been pushed around from department to department and all I
>> ever get is "you can't have Broadband", presumably (the exchange
>> is
>
> I`m in the same predicament as yourself (see 5.65km thread below),
> i spent most of the day being ushered around BT`s "Help" lines only
> to be told by an "Expert" from their Broadband dept. that it`s
> black or white and you have to accept the answer when you enter
> your phone number. They tell me that`s what they do too! I`ve been
> in contact with Zen who also not surprisingly said `No`, so i`ve
> asked them for more details from BT re. my line noise/capacitance
> etc as Sunil suggests. I would have let this one go except one of
> their more helpful tecchie guys informed me that my line length was
> 5.65km, we all know the limit now goes to 6km. I would indeed be
> surprised if my line exceeds 60db, my dial-up is always over 45k.
> But what to do now?? Could i contact my small local exchange
> directly or what, BT`s Help Lines don`t want to be bothered.
> I mentioned a `new` line to our Expert as well, only to be told it
> probably wouldn`t be any better than what i have...............
> Hope you have better luck!
>
> rgds,
> Roy.

Roy your forgeting it's not just line loss, you have to factor in the signal
to noise ratio as well.

If you like talking to bricks & mortar (or timber depending on the
construction) then by all means talk to the local exchange, in other words
the likelyhood of anybody actually being there is limited & whether they can
actual be of any help is near to zero.

The only way you can get further is by getting an ISP to actually do a
manual order, you may be succesful but here again you may not. It's the
only way, wasting your time trying to chase it to ground by phoning up BT is
exactly that, a waste of time. In most cases you will not even be BT's
customer as you'll be the end user of an ISP who is BT's customer.

There are locations in this area whic are less than 1km from an exchange &
can't have any DSL service & others at a similar distance where you can only
get RADSL so you aren't alone.

I failed my line test at 3.75km from the exchange (hence using NTL) & I
personally have tested & passed lines which were 7km from the same exchange.
It's the way it the thing works out in reality even if it's not the way we
want them...

I personally have tested & passed lines which were 7km from the same
exchange.
> It's the way it the thing works out in reality even if it's not the way we
want them...

how did the customer get you to do this, BT wont send me an engineer?

Decal

Decal wrote:
> I personally have tested & passed lines which were 7km from the same
> exchange.
>> It's the way it the thing works out in reality even if it's not
>> the way we want them...
>
> how did the customer get you to do this, BT wont send me an
> engineer?
>
> Decal

In the good old days, all premises were visited, but with people complaining
about the cost of the visit (hence the higher install price) this has been
stopped for most residential installs as the end users don't won't to spend
the cash...

"Kráftéé" <(E-Mail Removed)> "In the good old days, all premises
were visited, but with people complaining about the cost of the visit (hence
the higher install price) this has been stopped for most residential
installs as the end users don't won't to spend the cash..."

So so true. the avaerage engineer visit cost being around £80
statistically - thats £80 lost for every fail OR a revenue return of a few
£££ a month from an isp. Thats just not good business sense - but
frustrating for many customers.

I'm sure all BT staff could think of particular instances of stupidity
locally to them. In my 'patch' we have a wonderful new development
"Beggarwood" off of Dummer Exchange in Hampshire. What is ironic is all the
little farmhouses fall within reach of adsl but this new estate of several
thosand houses does not. BT Planning stupidity on this one. Cable run 7km
and just out of limit. The stupidity - the feed runs past all the houses it
feeds for 1km to the cab, then back 1km to the homes. More suitable
positioning of the cab would have meant 90% of the estate would have got
ADSL but as it is 10% do.

Corking.

In article <LaoIb.6942$(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
(Michael Jackson) wrote:

> In my 'patch' we have a wonderful new development
> "Beggarwood" off of Dummer Exchange in Hampshire. What is ironic is
> all the
> little farmhouses fall within reach of adsl but this new estate of
> several
> thosand houses does not.

Not quite true - the first tranche are within reach, but from Canberra
onwards - not a prayer by line length!

The even more ludicrous thing - on actual line *loss* the whole estate
is coverable, since the actual cable is in good nick. But will BT bend
the rules to get the customers? Nope!

I have ADSL here in Bronze but then my line length is 5.9km.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting bandwidth since 1981

begin Once upon a time there was a badly broken newsreader...

In article <(E-Mail Removed) m>,
(E-Mail Removed) (Paul Cummins) wrote:


> --
> Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
> Wasting bandwidth since 1981
>
> begin Once upon a time there was a badly broken newsreader...
>

X-Newsreader: Ameol 2 version 2.53.2014 - http://www.ameol.com/

So there was !


- Steve