Lifting handset drops ADSL - noisy line in dry weather!

Might sound weird but during wet weather my ADSL connection is good and
I can lift the handset and make and receive calls without losing the
connection.
However a short dry spell and things take a turn for the worse. I get
more and more noise on the line (whistles and crackling) even with just
the phone connected (and I've tried with two different ones.) With
either of the two ADSL modems I have connected (Ozenda ADSL firewall
router and SpeedTouch 330) I can even hear the ADSL signal despite
connecting any one of the three filters I have (two came with the
SpeedTouch one with the Ozenda.) I've also tried connecting straight
into the socket behind the faceplate on my BT socket with all combinations.
With all this different equipment I think I've ruled out a problem after
the BT socket so the problem must be with the line. I've reported the
problem to BT twice. On the first occasion I thought they had done
something because the problem went away and they phoned me to confirm
all was now OK. It stayed good for about five days then the problem
returned. The second time I reported the problem they said they can find
no fault with the line, deleted the fault report on the web pages and
suggested an engineer visits. The problem is if the engineer visits on a
wet day there will be no fault found and I'll get charged for the visit.
Might be a red herring but sometimes if I force a line check on the BT
web pages the fault will clear for a few hours. Also I think the fault
sometimes goes away during the day anyway for brief periods along with
the whistling and crackling.
Has anyone else encountered the same problem or does anyone with
technical knowledge about phone lines and ADSL have any ideas?
Thanks for any help. Mark.

"Mark Vickers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
> Might sound weird but during wet weather my ADSL connection is
> good and I can lift the handset and make and receive calls without
> losing the connection.

On reading this, I couldn't help but think of an earth stake somewhere
drying out, and thus not giving a good 'ground' return.

Having said that, surely ground stakes are not part of a standard line
installation?? Perhaps a BT eng. can shed some light on this!

- Mike

Mike H wrote:
> "Mark Vickers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>> Might sound weird but during wet weather my ADSL connection is
>> good and I can lift the handset and make and receive calls without
>> losing the connection.
>
> On reading this, I couldn't help but think of an earth stake somewhere
> drying out, and thus not giving a good 'ground' return.
>
> Having said that, surely ground stakes are not part of a standard line
> installation?? Perhaps a BT eng. can shed some light on this!
>
> - Mike

It's either a H(igh) R(esistance) connection, probably above ground or
if the over head line is thru a tree or 2 then it could be there.

If you report it to BT, report it as an intermitent noise fault (don't
mention ADSL at any stage) but bare in mind that intermitent faults are
always the hardest to find, so if you can deffinitely prove it's still
noisy in the test socket, just keep banging in the faults..

In article <df70ar$ifp$(E-Mail Removed)>, Mike H
wrote:

> Having said that, surely ground stakes are not part of a standard line
> installation?? Perhaps a BT eng. can shed some light on this!

Shared service, earth-calling PABXs and external extensions were the
main types of line which used an earth connection. They all had to be
abolished prior to the introduction of "modern" exchanges such as
crossbar (TXK1 and TXK3) and electronic (TXE2 and TXE4). That also had
the benefit that lines were no longer polarity-sensitive. The reduction
of line and apparatus maintenance time/cost was significant, offsetting
the initial costs of changing apparatus and increasing the number of
lines.

Earth spikes had been standard provision from time immemorial on all
lines to provide lightning surge protection. The carbon "protectors"
were a common source of low insulation faults and were abolished for new
lines when the 700-series telephone was introduced (c. 1960). Special
provision (gas-discharge tubes) was then made for lightning-sensitive
lines.


--

Jock Mackirdy
Bedford

Jock Mackirdy wrote:

> Shared service, earth-calling PABXs and external extensions were the
> main types of line which used an earth connection. They all had to be
> abolished prior to the introduction of "modern" exchanges such as
> crossbar (TXK1 and TXK3) and electronic (TXE2 and TXE4).

Shared Service could be, and was, provided on TXK1 and TXE2 (don't know
about the others) without any problem. They were mostly removed in the
mid to late 80's when WB900 became available, a preferable although not
completely reliable, way of using one pair for two lines.

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.

Jock Mackirdy wrote:
> In article <df70ar$ifp$(E-Mail Removed)>, Mike H
> wrote:
>
>> Having said that, surely ground stakes are not part of a standard
>> line installation?? Perhaps a BT eng. can shed some light on this!
>
> Shared service, earth-calling PABXs and external extensions were the
> main types of line which used an earth connection. They all had to be
> abolished prior to the introduction of "modern" exchanges such as
> crossbar (TXK1 and TXK3) and electronic (TXE2 and TXE4). That also had
> the benefit that lines were no longer polarity-sensitive. The
> reduction of line and apparatus maintenance time/cost was
> significant, offsetting the initial costs of changing apparatus and
> increasing the number of lines.
>
> Earth spikes had been standard provision from time immemorial on all
> lines to provide lightning surge protection. The carbon "protectors"
> were a common source of low insulation faults and were abolished for
> new lines when the 700-series telephone was introduced (c. 1960).
> Special provision (gas-discharge tubes) was then made for
> lightning-sensitive lines.

Only problem is that those where very seldom connected to earth, so they
took the earth terminal away so the gas disharge tube was only connected
from A to B (even though there was still an earth terminal in the NTE) &
now even the discharge tube has been removed in favour of a diode, once
again connected between A & B legs (the earth terminal having been
removed ). AFAIR the only equipment accesable to the CAL man,
containing a earth connection point, is the in the block 80b or the RF3
connection blocks (or the larger internal DP type blocks, 301 etc of
course)...

Earth discharge protection/over voltage protection is something which is
sadly lacking in the BT local loop nowadays, I've even known a 240v
flash over (during a house fire) to be able to get back to the exchange
card & damage that.

The only voltage protection devices still used are in hot sites (power
stations) where all circuits have to go thru line protectors (unless the
lev 2 says other wise, go figure) so things like ADSL & Redcare are
effictively blocked & specialised modules have to be used for BTHighway
or ISDN but even with those they can have problems.

Now I'm sure that someone is going to tell me that what I'm saying is
incorrect practice, or not correct by the regulations (i.e long multi
span lines are supposed to have earth discharge prtotection etc) but
what's in the book & what happens outside in the big bad world is & can
be completely different (even the 'fuses' used in the exchanges are
being replaced by metal bridging pieces if not already done so)...

Ian Bartholomew wrote:
> Jock Mackirdy wrote:
>
>> Shared service, earth-calling PABXs and external extensions were the
>> main types of line which used an earth connection. They all had to be
>> abolished prior to the introduction of "modern" exchanges such as
>> crossbar (TXK1 and TXK3) and electronic (TXE2 and TXE4).
>
> Shared Service could be, and was, provided on TXK1 and TXE2 (don't
> know about the others) without any problem. They were mostly removed
> in the mid to late 80's when WB900 became available, a preferable
> although not completely reliable, way of using one pair for two lines.

Except for when the batteries go flat of course...

Kraftee wrote:

> Except for when the batteries go flat of course...

A not uncommon occurrence.

Are WB900s still in use? One of my last jobs(?) with BT, just before I
left 10 years ago, was escorting a contractor round to a number of the
local exchanges so he could do mods on the, then new, DACS equipment
racks. I got that impression then that WB900s would soon be a thing of
the past.

--
Ian

Use the Reply-To address to contact me.
Mail sent to the From address is ignored.

Ian Bartholomew wrote:
> Kraftee wrote:
>
>> Except for when the batteries go flat of course...
>
> A not uncommon occurrence.
>
> Are WB900s still in use? One of my last jobs(?) with BT, just before
> I left 10 years ago, was escorting a contractor round to a number of
> the local exchanges so he could do mods on the, then new, DACS
> equipment racks. I got that impression then that WB900s would soon
> be a thing of the past.

Like everything they're only being taken out if & when they go faulty,
there has never been a project to replace them with DACS, or to put them
onto proper copper..

"Mark Vickers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:df6pja$enn$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Might sound weird but during wet weather my ADSL connection is good and I
> can lift the handset and make and receive calls without losing the
> connection.
> However a short dry spell and things take a turn for the worse. I get more
> and more noise on the line (whistles and crackling) even with just the
> phone connected (and I've tried with two different ones.) With either of
> the two ADSL modems I have connected (Ozenda ADSL firewall router and
> SpeedTouch 330) I can even hear the ADSL signal despite connecting any one
> of the three filters I have (two came with the SpeedTouch one with the
> Ozenda.) I've also tried connecting straight into the socket behind the
> faceplate on my BT socket with all combinations.
> With all this different equipment I think I've ruled out a problem after
> the BT socket so the problem must be with the line. I've reported the
> problem to BT twice. On the first occasion I thought they had done
> something because the problem went away and they phoned me to confirm all
> was now OK. It stayed good for about five days then the problem returned.
> The second time I reported the problem they said they can find no fault
> with the line, deleted the fault report on the web pages and suggested an
> engineer visits. The problem is if the engineer visits on a wet day there
> will be no fault found and I'll get charged for the visit.
> Might be a red herring but sometimes if I force a line check on the BT web
> pages the fault will clear for a few hours. Also I think the fault
> sometimes goes away during the day anyway for brief periods along with the
> whistling and crackling.
> Has anyone else encountered the same problem or does anyone with technical
> knowledge about phone lines and ADSL have any ideas?
> Thanks for any help. Mark.

I had the same problem, turned out to be a bad crimp in the green cabinet.
In the hot sunny weather this cab would get very warm and somthing moved
very very slighltly.....