the last three miles

Hello. I'm building a house in rural area with limited options for
Internet connectivity. DirectTV-based Internet is not an option with
the lag and Verizon's EV-DO Wireless Internet Access user agreement
renders it useless. But three miles away from the residence is a
cell
tower providing the EV-DO service. I contacted the cell tower owner
and was told it would cost me at most a couple hundred per month to
mount a WiMAX antenna on the tower on the lower tiers. Anyone have
experience when dealing with tower operators? I'd have to also
arrange for power and the DSL connection. As I said my residence is
3
miles away. Not in direct line of site obviously. The tower's base
is at 14
meters above sea-level, where as the residence foundation is
approximately 21
meters. The curvature per mile of the earths surface is 8 inches per
mile. I'd prefer not erecting a tower at the residence, but the roof
line of the house is roughly 40 feet above the ground . So, internet-
wise where do I need to go, if I want to attempt wiring all this up
myself. Get the appropriate antenna for the tower, a weather proof
utility box to house I'd suppose the router hardware and the DSL
modem, and the antenna and hardware for the home? Has anyone
attempted something similar? Read any articles of the same?
What other discussion board or forum might I also ask these questions
or surf through in order to come a more informed understanding as how
to pursue this effort?

-Wil

With a tower base at 14 meters and a house base at 21 meters the earths
curvature is not your problem if the two are only 3 miles apart. What is in
between? A hill, trees etc?



Alec


"virtuallight" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> Hello. I'm building a house in rural area with limited options for
> Internet connectivity. DirectTV-based Internet is not an option with
> the lag and Verizon's EV-DO Wireless Internet Access user agreement
> renders it useless. But three miles away from the residence is a
> cell
> tower providing the EV-DO service. I contacted the cell tower owner
> and was told it would cost me at most a couple hundred per month to
> mount a WiMAX antenna on the tower on the lower tiers. Anyone have
> experience when dealing with tower operators? I'd have to also
> arrange for power and the DSL connection. As I said my residence is
> 3
> miles away. Not in direct line of site obviously. The tower's base
> is at 14
> meters above sea-level, where as the residence foundation is
> approximately 21
> meters. The curvature per mile of the earths surface is 8 inches per
> mile. I'd prefer not erecting a tower at the residence, but the roof
> line of the house is roughly 40 feet above the ground . So, internet-
> wise where do I need to go, if I want to attempt wiring all this up
> myself. Get the appropriate antenna for the tower, a weather proof
> utility box to house I'd suppose the router hardware and the DSL
> modem, and the antenna and hardware for the home? Has anyone
> attempted something similar? Read any articles of the same?
> What other discussion board or forum might I also ask these questions
> or surf through in order to come a more informed understanding as how
> to pursue this effort?
>
> -Wil
>

On Jun 29, 7:59 am, "Alec" <alechop...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> With a tower base at 14 meters and a house base at 21 meters the earths
> curvature is not your problem if the two are only 3 miles apart. What is in
> between? A hill, trees etc?
>
> Alec
>
> "virtuallight" <virtualli...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
>
> > Hello. I'm building a house in rural area with limited options for
> > Internet connectivity. DirectTV-based Internet is not an option with
> > the lag and Verizon's EV-DO Wireless Internet Access user agreement
> > renders it useless. But three miles away from the residence is a
> > cell
> > tower providing the EV-DO service. I contacted the cell tower owner
> > and was told it would cost me at most a couple hundred per month to
> > mount a WiMAX antenna on the tower on the lower tiers. Anyone have
> > experience when dealing with tower operators? I'd have to also
> > arrange for power and the DSL connection. As I said my residence is
> > 3
> > miles away. Not in direct line of site obviously. The tower's base
> > is at 14
> > meters above sea-level, where as the residence foundation is
> > approximately 21
> > meters. The curvature per mile of the earths surface is 8 inches per
> > mile. I'd prefer not erecting a tower at the residence, but the roof
> > line of the house is roughly 40 feet above the ground . So, internet-
> > wise where do I need to go, if I want to attempt wiring all this up
> > myself. Get the appropriate antenna for the tower, a weather proof
> > utility box to house I'd suppose the router hardware and the DSL
> > modem, and the antenna and hardware for the home? Has anyone
> > attempted something similar? Read any articles of the same?
> > What other discussion board or forum might I also ask these questions
> > or surf through in order to come a more informed understanding as how
> > to pursue this effort?

Yes, there are trees and only slight bit of roll to the ground between
the tower and residence. But no mountains or substantial buildings.
I'm in the flat, rural area of the state. With WiMax having a range I
believe of 30 or 50 miles, I suspect there would be no problem with
the topo.. I was just giving all the information I have. What I need
is a recipe to follow, and the source for the gear (antennas, utility
box for router and modem). I'm not sure how well EV-DO service
relates, but I get about 2 to 3 bars of service on a smart phone
probably drawing service from this tower. I think from digging I've
done so far the non-point-to-point WiMax antennas look like the ones
cellular providers use. Long, candy bar shaped antennas. Would I
basically get one of those or similar, a position on the tower on the
side favorable to the residence and then blanket the area? I suppose
I could then offset my costs by reselling connectivity to the other
residence in the coverage area. Subject to the terms of the DSL
subscription agreement of course. Anyone else do this? What was your
success in offsetting costs? Is there any way to tune so that I get
a larger amount of the bandwidth when needed versus houses better
positioned to gobble up all the bandwidth, or do I have to worry about
that sorta thing? Or should I attempt to do point-to-point?
Requiring something like a Pringles can antenna or something else?
If I do point-to-point do you basically have to see antenna from the
other antenna? If it does, it would sound like this would need a
tower at the residence. As you can see I have limited knowledge,
thus the questions.

-Wil

"virtuallight" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
> Hello. I'm building a house in rural area with limited options for
> Internet connectivity. DirectTV-based Internet is not an option with
> the lag

Direct tv is not the only sat option. And besides for voip the sat delay
should not be an issue.

> and Verizon's EV-DO Wireless Internet Access user agreement
> renders it useless.

Seems alot of people do not see it like that.
What are you planning to do with this connection.

> But three miles away from the residence is a
> cell
> tower providing the EV-DO service. I contacted the cell tower owner
> and was told it would cost me at most a couple hundred per month to
> mount a WiMAX antenna on the tower on the lower tiers.

Sounds about right.

> Anyone have
> experience when dealing with tower operators?

Which one. American and crown are both good companies.

> I'd have to also
> arrange for power and the DSL connection.

Yep


> As I said my residence is
> 3
> miles away. Not in direct line of site obviously. The tower's base
> is at 14
> meters above sea-level, where as the residence foundation is
> approximately 21
> meters. The curvature per mile of the earths surface is 8 inches per
> mile. I'd prefer not erecting a tower at the residence, but the roof
> line of the house is roughly 40 feet above the ground .

You need to look at the frensel clearance here. Depending on your frequency
you may have to go higher.
Being that the tower is at 14agl, and you are at 21, and you are limited to
the lower rungs, I would try to get as high on the tower as you are allowed,
say 20 to 30 feet, 40 feet would be better.


> So, internet-
> wise where do I need to go, if I want to attempt wiring all this up
> myself. Get the appropriate antenna for the tower, a weather proof
> utility box to house I'd suppose the router hardware and the DSL
> modem, and the antenna and hardware for the home? Has anyone
> attempted something similar? Read any articles of the same?
> What other discussion board or forum might I also ask these questions
> or surf through in order to come a more informed understanding as how
> to pursue this effort?

You may want to contact a local radio shop, or an IT shop.
>
> -Wil
>

> DirectTV-based Internet is not an option with
> the lag

Have you looked at Hughes or WildBlue ?

On Jun 29, 10:26 am, "Dana" <raff...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "virtuallight" <virtualli...@hushmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:(E-Mail Removed) ups.com...
>
> > Hello. I'm building a house in rural area with limited options for
> > Internet connectivity. DirectTV-based Internet is not an option with
> > the lag
>
> Direct tv is not the only sat option. And besides for voip the sat delay
> should not be an issue.

Isn't any sat solution going to incur a delay up, down, back up, back
down. I found DirectTV a year or so back was only useful for Web and
email. You couldn't do anything that required a constant stream.

>
> > and Verizon's EV-DO Wireless Internet Access user agreement
> > renders it useless.
>
> Seems alot of people do not see it like that.
> What are you planning to do with this connection.

Serve. You can't serve anything, or doing anything beyond web and
email on Verizon's EV-DO.

"MAY NOT be used for any other purpose. Examples of prohibited uses
include, without limitation, the following: (i) continuous uploading,
downloading, or streaming of audio or video programming or games; (ii)
server devices or host computer applications, including, but not
limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds,
automated machine to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file-
sharing; or (iii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or
dedicated data connections. This means, by way of example only, that
checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired
songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but
downloading movies using P2P file-sharing services and/or redirecting
television programming content for viewing on laptops is prohibited. A
person engaged in prohibited uses continuously for one hour could
typically use 100 to 200 MB, or, if engaged in prohibited uses for 10
hours a day, 7 days a week, could use more than 5 GB in a month."

So, its all but a useless service in my mind. I'm a software
engineer, who commutes into the city... I need Internet for my job.


>
> Which one. American and crown are both good companies.
>

Think it was Crown.

>
> You need to look at the frensel clearance here. Depending on your frequency
> you may have to go higher.
> Being that the tower is at 14agl, and you are at 21, and you are limited to
> the lower rungs, I would try to get as high on the tower as you are allowed,
> say 20 to 30 feet, 40 feet would be better.
>

Okay, fresnel clearance. Good information. This one word had led me
to a wealth of
information:
line of sight (LOS) coverage, non line of sight (NLOS) coverage, et
cetera... LOS needs most of the Fresnel zone, et cetera. I would
suppose I would need to focus on a NLOS system.

> You may want to contact a local radio shop, or an IT shop.

Hmm, I was thinking of MAKE'ing this (designing, installing the ground
equipment) myself, instead of paying for it....

-Wil

On Jun 29, 11:07 am, "rieker" <rieker5.nospam.e...@google.com> wrote:
> > DirectTV-based Internet is not an option with
> > the lag
>
> Have you looked at Hughes or WildBlue?

Don't all sat solutions suffer from the lag up, down, up again, down
again. On would think this would occur especially on negotiation,
and while your operating something like VoIP would have the same
delay as a say a sat phone. Wasn't DirectTV previously Hughes. (The
last of the Howard Hughes companies, i think. I think there maybe
Hughes Research left, but I don't think much is left of his
companies. I may be wrong.) And you can't serve over these products,
can you?

-Wil

On Jun 29, 1:51 pm, virtuallight <virtualli...@hushmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 29, 11:07 am, "rieker" <rieker5.nospam.e...@google.com> wrote:
>
> > > DirectTV-based Internet is not an option with
> > > the lag
>
> > Have you looked at Hughes or WildBlue?
>
> Don't all sat solutions suffer from the lag up, down, up again, down
> again. On would think this would occur especially on negotiation,
> and while your operating something like VoIP would have the same
> delay as a say a sat phone. Wasn't DirectTV previously Hughes. (The
> last of the Howard Hughes companies, i think. I think there maybe
> Hughes Research left, but I don't think much is left of his
> companies. I may be wrong.) And you can't serve over these products,
> can you?
>
> -Wil

Especially, up. Usually, up is a mere trickle. I mean, if all I do
is down this would suffice, but I need up. I know people who have
gone so far to hatch plans to pay for DSL at closest nearby connection
and the pay the phone company for a twisted pair for the purpose of an
alarm to run data over, when sat service failed to deliver on
expectations...

-Wil

-Wil.

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:39:00 -0000, in alt.internet.wireless ,
virtuallight <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Serve. You can't serve anything, or doing anything beyond web and
>email on Verizon's EV-DO.
>
>"MAY NOT be used for any other purpose. Examples of prohibited uses
>include, without limitation, the following: (i) continuous uploading,
>downloading, or streaming of audio or video programming or games; (ii)
>server devices or host computer applications, including, but not
>limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds,
>automated machine to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file-
>sharing;

(snippage)

They're using the word "serve" differently to you. In my reading this
T&C is designed to prevent you running P2P or similar, where you would
saturate the uplink. My isp has a similar term and they've publically
clarified that if you are running a mail server or small webserver
they won't have any issues.

I would suggest you ask them to clarify if its ok for you to run your
server. Obviously if you're planning to run a business off the line
you should be talking about a businessgrade connection anyway.

--
Mark McIntyre

On Jun 29, 9:26 am, "Dana" <raff...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Direct tv is not the only sat option. And besides for voip the sat delay
> should not be an issue.
>


Um, ahem. Sat delay (lag) is a HUGE issue with voip. And all SAT has
lag. Minimum is 600+ ms and over 1000 is common. When it works at
all, the delay can be maddening for voip. .

Apart from that, I am happy enough with Hughesnet business plan ($100
month) that I can't imagine going to the trouble to rent tower space
and try to bring in your own connection via wifi. Sounds very
ambitious.

How bad can EVDO be? You must be running a serious internet business?
Need VPN or something like that ?

Fine, you have already decided. I do believe that line of sight is
going to be a make or break issue at 2.4 Ghz and 3 miles, but somebody
else will know better...

Steve