Keep Losing Connection To Wireless Router/Modem

Hi, I have an HP NC8430 laptop running Windows XP Home SP2. The laptop
has a built-in wireless adapter which according to Device Manager is a
'Broadcom 802.11g/b WLAN' adapter. On the router/modem front, I've got
a Netgear DG834G which has been working fine with the laptop for the 6
months or so that I've had them.

I'm experiencing weird problems with them just now though - when I
switch on the router is found ok and all seems to be well. I can surf,
etc. ok for several minutes but then my connection drops without any
warning or messages. At this stage windows still tells me I'm
connected to my router however I cannot access its config page (at
192.168.0.1) nor can I ping that IP Address.

If I disconnect then reconnect then it works again fine for a few more
minutes before the same problem occurs again. I've rebooted the laptop
and restarted the router, both to no effect. I've also used an
ethernet cable from the router to laptop instead and this had the
exact same problem.

If I leave a command prompt pinging 192.168.0.1 (ie. -t switch) it
shows 'request timed out' but will then periodically get a reply for
around 10 pings before timing out again.

I've left this overnight but the problem persists. From what I can
tell, my ISP is not reporting any problems in their service at the
moment. Any thoughts what it could be?

Any help much appreciated!

Thanks.

(E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:

>I cannot access its config page (at
>192.168.0.1) nor can I ping that IP Address.

Can you access the config page via a wired CAT5 ethernet connection to
your laptop? That will verify that the router is still functioning.

>If I leave a command prompt pinging 192.168.0.1 (ie. -t switch) it
>shows 'request timed out' but will then periodically get a reply for
>around 10 pings before timing out again.

Huge wireless packet loss. The problem is trying to determine the
cause. The likely culprits are:

1. Ancient version of the firmware in your DG834G ADSL wireless
router. This may not be the cause, but might be contributory. Check
it anyway and install the latest via a WIRED connection, not via
wireless.

2. Lack of sufficiently strong signal. This can come from various
sources, but the weird one that I seem to be finding is that the two
antenna connections on MiniPCI card in your HP laptop have become
unplugged. Open door on bottom of laptop and inspect. Check signal
strength indications on the laptop wireless connection manager. If
you can't find it, how many bars does it show?

3. Interference. If one of your neighbors or the local municipality
has installed a nearby wireless access point, it might be on the same
channel as what you're using. Try switching the DG834G to a different
channel (1, 6, or 11). See FAQ section on interference at:
<http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi#Interference>
Interference has become an all too common problem as home networks and
municipal WLAN's expand.

4. Malicious or clueless user or neighbor. They can create all
manner of havoc if the SSID of your wireless device is somehow
duplicated nearby. If your Netgear DG834G has the default or a
non-unique SSID, kindly change it so that it is unique. You might
also want to test if the neighbors are using the same SSID by turning
off your wireless, and scanning for SSID's with your laptop. (Note:
This is not guaranteed to find an SSID if they have intentionally set
their access point to not broadcast the SSID).

5. Power cycle. I know it's obvious, but I'm including this one
because several times in the last few months, someone has fixed a
problem that was caused by hung or misbehaving router, by simply
cycling the power. Low end wireless devices were not made to stay up
forever and do tend to hang without much provocation. Turn off the
power, wait at least 15 seconds, turn it back on. Note that I didn't
say "turn off the on/off switch". Some devices have power applied
continuously. Pull the plug from the wall, if necessary.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> (E-Mail Removed) hath wroth:
>
> >I cannot access its config page (at
> >192.168.0.1) nor can I ping that IP Address.
>
> Can you access the config page via a wired CAT5 ethernet connection to
> your laptop? That will verify that the router is still functioning.
>
> >If I leave a command prompt pinging 192.168.0.1 (ie. -t switch) it
> >shows 'request timed out' but will then periodically get a reply for
> >around 10 pings before timing out again.
>
> Huge wireless packet loss. The problem is trying to determine the
> cause. The likely culprits are:
>
> 1. Ancient version of the firmware in your DG834G ADSL wireless
> router. This may not be the cause, but might be contributory. Check
> it anyway and install the latest via a WIRED connection, not via
> wireless.
>
> 2. Lack of sufficiently strong signal. This can come from various
> sources, but the weird one that I seem to be finding is that the two
> antenna connections on MiniPCI card in your HP laptop have become
> unplugged. Open door on bottom of laptop and inspect. Check signal
> strength indications on the laptop wireless connection manager. If
> you can't find it, how many bars does it show?
>
> 3. Interference. If one of your neighbors or the local municipality
> has installed a nearby wireless access point, it might be on the same
> channel as what you're using. Try switching the DG834G to a different
> channel (1, 6, or 11). See FAQ section on interference at:
> <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi#Interference>
> Interference has become an all too common problem as home networks and
> municipal WLAN's expand.
>
> 4. Malicious or clueless user or neighbor. They can create all
> manner of havoc if the SSID of your wireless device is somehow
> duplicated nearby. If your Netgear DG834G has the default or a
> non-unique SSID, kindly change it so that it is unique. You might
> also want to test if the neighbors are using the same SSID by turning
> off your wireless, and scanning for SSID's with your laptop. (Note:
> This is not guaranteed to find an SSID if they have intentionally set
> their access point to not broadcast the SSID).
>
> 5. Power cycle. I know it's obvious, but I'm including this one
> because several times in the last few months, someone has fixed a
> problem that was caused by hung or misbehaving router, by simply
> cycling the power. Low end wireless devices were not made to stay up
> forever and do tend to hang without much provocation. Turn off the
> power, wait at least 15 seconds, turn it back on. Note that I didn't
> say "turn off the on/off switch". Some devices have power applied
> continuously. Pull the plug from the wall, if necessary.

I'd add only this:

6. Defective wireless card.


I had one of these lately that turned out to be the root cause of
large, inconsistent packet loss from that workstation to several
different routers all in the same room with the client.


--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

(E-Mail Removed) (Todd H.) hath wroth:

>I'd add only this:

Oh, there's a few more that I didn't bother listing. I try to list
the most probable (and most interesting) first, in order of descending
likelyhood. The duplicate SSID theory is my current favorite. My
last war driving expedition through Santa Cruz yielded about 450
access points with about 120 named "linksys", 30 named "default", and
rest fairly random. What I found interesting was that of the 120
named "linksys", about 50 of them were set to not broadcast the SSID.
That means the owner has some clue about wireless security (i.e. had
read an article on the subject somewhere), but failed to understand
the importance of having a unique SSID.

>6. Defective wireless card.
>
>I had one of these lately that turned out to be the root cause of
>large, inconsistent packet loss from that workstation to several
>different routers all in the same room with the client.

Sure, but unlikely. The owners HP/Compaq NC8430 laptop is of recent
vintage.
<http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/321957-321957-64295-321838-3329741-1839150.html>
He's running XP SP2 so he doesn't have Vista to blame. It's possible
that the brand new machine is defective, but it's unlikely. I've had
warranty issues on new equipment with displays, hard disk drives,
CD/DVD drives, and the [deleted expletive] power supply connector, but
not the wireless card. The closest I've come are a few machines where
the dealer managed to knock loose the antenna connections while
installing additional RAM which is sometimes located UNDER the MiniPCI
card.

I have had problems in the past with older wireless devices the
exhibit erratic performance. If the process of elimination points to
the MiniPCI card, I can usually conjur a replacement (I have a fair
sized collection) before I attack the firmware and drivers. Card
replacemnt has never solved the problem for me, but it's so easy to
do, that I just can't resist[1]. Most older MiniPCI cards rely on
main CPU to do much of the work. However, newer cards have just about
everything buried in the cards firmware. I quick update to the latest
firmware usually solves the problem.


[1] I tend to try what's easiest first, not what's most probable.
That's not the official politically correct method of troubleshooting
according to the textbook and flow charts, but it's the most
interesting for me. The only trick is to remember to never try
anything you can't undo.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> (E-Mail Removed) (Todd H.) hath wroth:
>
> >I'd add only this:
>
> Oh, there's a few more that I didn't bother listing. I try to list
> the most probable (and most interesting) first, in order of descending
> likelyhood. The duplicate SSID theory is my current favorite. My
> last war driving expedition through Santa Cruz yielded about 450
> access points with about 120 named "linksys", 30 named "default", and
> rest fairly random. What I found interesting was that of the 120
> named "linksys", about 50 of them were set to not broadcast the SSID.
> That means the owner has some clue about wireless security (i.e. had
> read an article on the subject somewhere), but failed to understand
> the importance of having a unique SSID.
>
> >6. Defective wireless card.
> >
> >I had one of these lately that turned out to be the root cause of
> >large, inconsistent packet loss from that workstation to several
> >different routers all in the same room with the client.
>
> Sure, but unlikely. The owners HP/Compaq NC8430 laptop is of recent
> vintage.
> <http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF25a/321957-321957-64295-321838-3329741-1839150.html>
> He's running XP SP2 so he doesn't have Vista to blame.

Last week I posted about a 7 month old Dell running XP SP2 that after
about 7 hours of troubleshooting including an hour with Dell's support
a new wireless card they finally agreed to send me fixed all the guy's
problems. This laptop never worked right on wireless for the entire 7
months the guy had it, so he bought it that way out of the box.

My point is simply "while unlikely, yes, impossible, no."

Now don't worry, I didn't give you any demerits for not including it
in your list Jeff. It is indeed unusual. You're a great contributor
here, and I'm not intending to tarnish your ego. Just adding a
possibility that very recently was the problem for me in a situation
with identical symptoms.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

(E-Mail Removed) (Todd H.) hath wroth:

>Last week I posted about a 7 month old Dell running XP SP2 that after
>about 7 hours of troubleshooting including an hour with Dell's support
>a new wireless card they finally agreed to send me fixed all the guy's
>problems. This laptop never worked right on wireless for the entire 7
>months the guy had it, so he bought it that way out of the box.
>
>My point is simply "while unlikely, yes, impossible, no."

Ok, I'll grant that it's possible but highly improbable.

Was this Dell laptop a new unit or one of the referbs from Dell
Outlet?
<http://www.delloutlet.com>
I was successfully buying refurbished hardware this way until somewhat
before last Christmas. The site had been purged during the Christmas
buying season (so as not to compete with the new products). When the
inventory magically returned in January, I started buying again. The
first three laptops (Inspiron 6000) my customers purchased all had
something broken or missing. The problems were quickly resolved, but
my customers and I was not thrilled with the loss of time and the use
of the laptops. All the Intel 2200BG(???) cards worked just fine. I
have no idea of the current quality levels. Hopefully, bringing back
Michael Dell as CEO might improve the customer experience.

>Now don't worry, I didn't give you any demerits for not including it
>in your list Jeff. It is indeed unusual. You're a great contributor
>here, and I'm not intending to tarnish your ego.

My gigantic, over-inflated, and bullet proof ego is not affected by
tarnish or criticism. I've been wrong before and will probably
continue the tradition. As always, criticism and additional input are
always welcome.

>Just adding a
>possibility that very recently was the problem for me in a situation
>with identical symptoms.

Well, if it had been a brand new shiny HP laptop right out of the box,
I would agree that a defective MiniPCI adapter might be a possible
problem. The original poster also mentioned that it had worked
together with the DG834m router for about 6 months. The OP also
mentioned that it sorta returns a few packets, sometimes, which
implies that it's still somewhat functional. Infant mortality
failures usually happen almost immediately. Therefore, my best guess
is some manner of external influence.

I once did have to deal with a blown MiniPCI card. However, the owner
admitted that he was experimenting with external antennas and has
managed to destroy the input devices or the RF connectors.

Incidentally, one problem I see constantly is the XP computer with
almost no updates since it was first installed. For XP and W2K users,
the update process has become an ordeal. Many users have had problems
or have succumbed to "not change anything". What I find are seriously
out of date operating systems. Some vendors (i.e. IBM, Sony) have
substantial vendor specific utilities and drivers, including wireless
client managers, that are traditionally broken on arrival and must be
updated. Even users who believe they are up to date, often
accidentally neglect these vendor specific utilities. I recently
fixed an IBM A31p laptop with an "IBM High-Rate Wireless Adapter" that
never did work correctly (for about 3 years), by simply installing a
huge mess of IBM vendor updates.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> (E-Mail Removed) (Todd H.) hath wroth:
>
> >Last week I posted about a 7 month old Dell running XP SP2 that after
> >about 7 hours of troubleshooting including an hour with Dell's support
> >a new wireless card they finally agreed to send me fixed all the guy's
> >problems. This laptop never worked right on wireless for the entire 7
> >months the guy had it, so he bought it that way out of the box.
> >
> >My point is simply "while unlikely, yes, impossible, no."
>
> Ok, I'll grant that it's possible but highly improbable.
>
> Was this Dell laptop a new unit or one of the referbs from Dell
> Outlet?
> <http://www.delloutlet.com>

It was purchased brand new, and was promptly brought up to date with
all Windows Updates. The owner was frustrated with it for 7 months
before bringing it to me. I brought all drivers and wireless
management tools up to date and , the wireless could not be made to
work reliably. It could see networks, try to join networks, would be
successful some of the time, but would enjoy 30-50% packetloss when
pinging hte default gateway on the wireless router sitting in the same
room with it. Identical results with 3 different routers and in 3
different phsical addresses (his house, his work, my place).
Meanwhile different laptops in the same room all enjoyed 0% packet
loss. That's when we knew to go after a possible hardware issue after
the driver and supporting software was all totally up to date.
Futzing with all this crap took about 5-7 hours. An hour convincing
Dell to send us a replacement wireless card... next day the card came,
popped it in, and all problems were gone.

It happens.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/