I've been on ADSL for about a week: Scandalously expensive!

I just didn't realise how much data a broadband connection can suck
down. Zen gives a 2Gb download limit on their 8000 Lite package, and I
thought, cor, 2 gigs! But just a few YouTube videos, a BBC Listen
Again, and that's your 2 gigs all used up with the month barely
started. The next package up (£24.99 per month) raises the limit to
20Gb per month, but I'm reading that users have to restrict their
downloading of, say, movie trailers to stay within the limit. The
internet, especially with broadband, is a wunnerful thang, but if it's
so exorbitant to actually use as one wants to, well, it's a bit like a
pig in a poke, really.

When I was on dial-up I paid my £14.99 a month and thereafter
everything was "free", albeit slow. While I couldn't watch Prime
Minister's Questions live, I could download smaller YouTube videos and
watch them later, all for no extra charge. Now I pay for EVERY byte
that comes down the wire.

Zen's argument is, effectively, our hands are tied because that's what
BT charges us wholesale.

Don't other countries, France for example, have a much better pricing
structure, and how on earth will we in the UK under BT ever be able to
afford frequent downloads of DVD movies from the BBC, which seems to
be the way mass entertainment is going?

Decidedly disillusioned.

MM

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:24:39 +0100, MM <(E-Mail Removed)> mused:

>I just didn't realise how much data a broadband connection can suck
>down. Zen gives a 2Gb download limit on their 8000 Lite package, and I
>thought, cor, 2 gigs! But just a few YouTube videos, a BBC Listen
>Again, and that's your 2 gigs all used up with the month barely
>started.

That's some usage. I'd say I was a reasonably heavy user and rarely go
over 1 gig or so in a Month.

Are you sure you haven't got somethign on the network that is
continually streaming traffic? Any P2P apps running 24\7, VoIP with
some rather excessive keep alive settings?

--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 15-Aug-2007, MM <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> When I was on dial-up I paid my £14.99 a month and thereafter
> everything was "free", albeit slow.

SurfTime was even better, 16 quid a quarter, off-peak, unmetered.
Streaming media does use a lot of bandwidth, and your ISP has
to pay for it.
There are some, including the most advertised ISP's, that seem
a bargain, free router, free phone calls, etc until having been
suckered into a 12 mth contract, you find that their news servers
are a joke, and they often the buy bandwidth from shiddy carriers.
So there are countries and websites you can't reach due to
faulty routers, congestion etc.
One way, pathping ends at Denver Colorado, going the other way
at Brussels BRU1. Google for the full router ID and Google comes
up with lots of problems about these routers.
ISP's doen't have to buy from BT, I used to buy in private
fibre circuits, and play the various carriers against each other.
BT, C&W, NTL/Telewest, etc.
Things will improve, it's just that we, as a country, have a lousy
infrastructure as compared with the Far East and some
parts of Europe.
Zen and Nildram/Pipex seem well regarded.

MM wrote:

> I just didn't realise how much data a broadband connection can suck
> down. Zen gives a 2Gb download limit on their 8000 Lite package, and I
> thought, cor, 2 gigs! But just a few YouTube videos, a BBC Listen
> Again, and that's your 2 gigs all used up with the month barely
> started. The next package up (£24.99 per month) raises the limit to
> 20Gb per month, but I'm reading that users have to restrict their
> downloading of, say, movie trailers to stay within the limit. The
> internet, especially with broadband, is a wunnerful thang, but if it's
> so exorbitant to actually use as one wants to, well, it's a bit like a
> pig in a poke, really.
>
> When I was on dial-up I paid my £14.99 a month and thereafter
> everything was "free", albeit slow. While I couldn't watch Prime
> Minister's Questions live, I could download smaller YouTube videos and
> watch them later, all for no extra charge. Now I pay for EVERY byte
> that comes down the wire.
>
> Zen's argument is, effectively, our hands are tied because that's what
> BT charges us wholesale.
>
> Don't other countries, France for example, have a much better pricing
> structure, and how on earth will we in the UK under BT ever be able to
> afford frequent downloads of DVD movies from the BBC, which seems to
> be the way mass entertainment is going?
>
> Decidedly disillusioned.

Were you really that unaware of your likely download volume ?

In view of your recent enlightenment you may well want to explore your options.
I suggest you get a firm idea of your monthly usage first.

Idnet's equivalent package which I'm on includes 5 GB for the same money and
they're an equally good ISP. Their next package up is 10GB more generous than
Zen for the same price too.

I suspect you may have been more disillusioned if you'd signed up for one of the
many ISPs who make claims about 'unrestricted use' but who don't really have
enough capacity for their customers btw.

Graham

Lurch wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:24:39 +0100, MM <(E-Mail Removed)> mused:
>
>> I just didn't realise how much data a broadband connection can suck
>> down. Zen gives a 2Gb download limit on their 8000 Lite package, and I
>> thought, cor, 2 gigs! But just a few YouTube videos, a BBC Listen
>> Again, and that's your 2 gigs all used up with the month barely
>> started.
>
> That's some usage. I'd say I was a reasonably heavy user and rarely go
> over 1 gig or so in a Month.
>
> Are you sure you haven't got somethign on the network that is
> continually streaming traffic? Any P2P apps running 24\7, VoIP with
> some rather excessive keep alive settings?
>
I gig in a month general web surfing is heavy, but once you start moving
on to streaming media, use if itunes etc, 1 gig is nothing, 2 gigs is
nothing, the price of ADSL is scandalous, but then again its the price
we pay to live in rip of Britain, where company's think they can rip us
off as they see fit.

Eddy

MM <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>Don't other countries, France for example, have a much better pricing
>structure, and how on earth will we in the UK under BT ever be able to
>afford frequent downloads of DVD movies from the BBC, which seems to
>be the way mass entertainment is going?
>
>Decidedly disillusioned.
>
>MM

35 Euros a month +21% VAT excluding line rental for 10GB a month in Belgium
from Belgacom.

Also meant to be an 8GB line but the of the 2 I have ones maxes out a 1.6
and the other at 3.2.

I love to see the press in UK always talk about how much
better/cheaper/quicker it is on mainland Europe. If only it was so :-)

Mind you I have one line with 4 people doing heavy surfing/emailing (No
YouTube though) and that averages out at about 3-5 GB a month so you usage
does seem pretty hefty to me.

Similar story in Germany and much more expensive in Switzerland.

Andy

> But just a few YouTube videos, a BBC Listen Again...

Define a "few", and how long were you on Listen Again for?

Kev

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:51:39 +0100, Lurch
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:24:39 +0100, MM <(E-Mail Removed)> mused:
>
>>I just didn't realise how much data a broadband connection can suck
>>down. Zen gives a 2Gb download limit on their 8000 Lite package, and I
>>thought, cor, 2 gigs! But just a few YouTube videos, a BBC Listen
>>Again, and that's your 2 gigs all used up with the month barely
>>started.
>
>That's some usage. I'd say I was a reasonably heavy user and rarely go
>over 1 gig or so in a Month.
>
>Are you sure you haven't got somethign on the network that is
>continually streaming traffic? Any P2P apps running 24\7, VoIP with
>some rather excessive keep alive settings?

For instance, I've discovered that YouTube has many videos giving
piano-playing tutorials. Each of these can be anything from 2MB
through 10 or 15MB. Even if I download them so that I can replay them
over and over locally the bytes mount up rapidly. Then there's
programmes from the BBC. On dial-up I'd listen to Any Questions and
Any Answers on the web, via the listen again facility, if I wasn't at
home when the broadcast happened. Didn't cost any extra to listen on
line; now every streamed byte comes off my allowance. Last night I
found a piano forum that included a link to some pretty fancy music
software, so I watched the demo video online, squirming all the while
because I knew it was gonna be 30MB minimum (10 minutes viewing or
so). The internet experience is not supposed to be like this! This is
like not spending one's bus fare on that last bag of chips before
going home. I reckon I could easily use up 20Gb without trying very
hard. Another example: I am very interested in Germany and the Wall
and so on. There is much online footage of the days leading up to and
beyond the collapse of East Germany, but again I could get through a
month's worth in no time.

I can't see how you can categorise yourself as a reasonably heavy
user, but use only around 1 gig a month! If I didn't want broadband
speed I could have stuck with dial-up for the mundane everyday stuff
(loading web pages, email, these newsgroups).

Finally, I even have to pay now for software upgrades! Whether it's
the daily dose into AVG or Spybot, a new version of Opera or Firefox,
all used to be "free" with dial-up! And some upgrades are another
whacking 10MB or so. I note that some ISPs provide cheaper rates for
off-peak downloads, but Zen doesn't support that.

MM

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:02:03 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Zen and Nildram/Pipex seem well regarded.

Oh, I have nothing bad to say about Zen's service. I am very impressed
with their outfit, and if it's true that they are getting whacked with
high wholesale prices from BT, there's probably not a lot they can do.
Therefore, the people that need a kick in the nutz are BT, yet again.
What a shower!

MM

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 12:07:13 +0100, Eeyore
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>
>MM wrote:
>
>> I just didn't realise how much data a broadband connection can suck
>> down. Zen gives a 2Gb download limit on their 8000 Lite package, and I
>> thought, cor, 2 gigs! But just a few YouTube videos, a BBC Listen
>> Again, and that's your 2 gigs all used up with the month barely
>> started. The next package up (£24.99 per month) raises the limit to
>> 20Gb per month, but I'm reading that users have to restrict their
>> downloading of, say, movie trailers to stay within the limit. The
>> internet, especially with broadband, is a wunnerful thang, but if it's
>> so exorbitant to actually use as one wants to, well, it's a bit like a
>> pig in a poke, really.
>>
>> When I was on dial-up I paid my £14.99 a month and thereafter
>> everything was "free", albeit slow. While I couldn't watch Prime
>> Minister's Questions live, I could download smaller YouTube videos and
>> watch them later, all for no extra charge. Now I pay for EVERY byte
>> that comes down the wire.
>>
>> Zen's argument is, effectively, our hands are tied because that's what
>> BT charges us wholesale.
>>
>> Don't other countries, France for example, have a much better pricing
>> structure, and how on earth will we in the UK under BT ever be able to
>> afford frequent downloads of DVD movies from the BBC, which seems to
>> be the way mass entertainment is going?
>>
>> Decidedly disillusioned.
>
>Were you really that unaware of your likely download volume ?

Yes. Absolutely.

>In view of your recent enlightenment you may well want to explore your options.
>I suggest you get a firm idea of your monthly usage first.

How can I possibly know what my monthly usage is going to be in
advance?!! I might see something I want to take a look at or download.
I've even downloaded a whole Linux iso in the past. Took about a
weekend on dial-up, mind you.

>Idnet's equivalent package which I'm on includes 5 GB for the same money and
>they're an equally good ISP. Their next package up is 10GB more generous than
>Zen for the same price too.

What is the quality of Idnet's service provision, user portal etc? Do
they have a monthly payment facility by credit card?

>I suspect you may have been more disillusioned if you'd signed up for one of the
>many ISPs who make claims about 'unrestricted use' but who don't really have
>enough capacity for their customers btw.

I chose Zen being a newbie and not knowing what problems I might
encounter. Zen has a reputation for excellent service and that has
proved to be the case. Getting the Speedtouch configured and broadband
working was an absolute doddle, but now that I have *that* experience
behind me, I have a benchmark against which I can try other
alternatives. Providing an ISP provides monthly billing and often (I
note) no transfer fee, it's not going to cost me anything to try out
several different providers. (I certainly would never sign up for an
annual contract.)

MM