of ISPs and routers

Might well change to IDNet soon as I'm getting a bit fed up with Tiscali.
Now, I run 1 of 2 modems: Thompson 'frog' and Zoom PCI ADSL card; each
connects etc. at the same speed (about 1.8M) and has, a couple of years ago,
managed 3.1M (the max. that the line can take and before T or BT started to
throttle it).

I don't think that I'd do better on a router, but perhaps more pertinently
the advice here is to leave the router on for X days. I switch off
everything every time I go out or don't use the PC for more than a couple of
hours, so I guess that a router wouldn't have time to do its thing.

If I did have a router, would it be troublesome if switched off after a few
hours?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 09/09/2010 17:15, kraftee wrote:
>
>
> "PeterC" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> Might well change to IDNet soon as I'm getting a bit fed up with Tiscali.
>> Now, I run 1 of 2 modems: Thompson 'frog' and Zoom PCI ADSL card; each
>> connects etc. at the same speed (about 1.8M) and has, a couple of
>> years ago,
>> managed 3.1M (the max. that the line can take and before T or BT
>> started to
>> throttle it).
>>
>> I don't think that I'd do better on a router, but perhaps more
>> pertinently
>> the advice here is to leave the router on for X days. I switch off
>> everything every time I go out or don't use the PC for more than a
>> couple of
>> hours, so I guess that a router wouldn't have time to do its thing.
>>
>> If I did have a router, would it be troublesome if switched off after
>> a few
>> hours?
>
> Well you aren't really giving the DSLAM a chance to find a stable sync
> speed, and from there a stable thru put if you keep turning your
> connection off and the exchange may well see it as a fault and so reduce
> your cap in order to try and make it more stable (stay on longer) which
> it can't because you keep turning the modem off.
>
> It's your choice.....

1. Get away from Tiscali (which is now part of Craphone Whorehouse/Talk
Talk anyway).
2. Find a good ISP and move to it.
3. Bin the frog modem and get a proper (non-USB) router - your ISP of
choice may well provide one as part of their package. Even if not, you
could buy one for fify-ish quid.
4. OK, switch everything else off when you go out if you must but ALWAYS
leave the router on 24/7. It doesn't use much juice and it benefits from
being able to be in synch with the exchange at all times, as Kraftee has
said.

George

On 09/09/2010 22:17, PeterC wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 17:15:54 +0100, kraftee wrote:
>
>> "PeterC"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> Might well change to IDNet soon as I'm getting a bit fed up with Tiscali.
>>> Now, I run 1 of 2 modems: Thompson 'frog' and Zoom PCI ADSL card; each
>>> connects etc. at the same speed (about 1.8M) and has, a couple of years
>>> ago,
>>> managed 3.1M (the max. that the line can take and before T or BT started
>>> to
>>> throttle it).
>>>
>>> I don't think that I'd do better on a router, but perhaps more pertinently
>>> the advice here is to leave the router on for X days. I switch off
>>> everything every time I go out or don't use the PC for more than a couple
>>> of
>>> hours, so I guess that a router wouldn't have time to do its thing.
>>>
>>> If I did have a router, would it be troublesome if switched off after a
>>> few
>>> hours?
>>
>> Well you aren't really giving the DSLAM a chance to find a stable sync
>> speed, and from there a stable thru put if you keep turning your connection
>> off and the exchange may well see it as a fault and so reduce your cap in
>> order to try and make it more stable (stay on longer) which it can't because
>> you keep turning the modem off.
>>
>> It's your choice.....
>
> OK, thanks for the explanation. There seems to be a weakness in the whole
> system if it can't simply adjust in a matter of a few minutes - I guess
> because of the unsuitability of the infrastructure WRT adsl.
>
> In that case I'll opt for the non-router approach and turn off. It's a habit
> formed when I used to spend a lot of time away from home and didn't want
> anything on except the fridge-freezer and, in Winter, the boiler set to 10C.

OK, if you prefer to live by habits rather than rational thought... :-(

On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:20:34 +0100, George Weston wrote:
>>
>> OK, thanks for the explanation. There seems to be a weakness in the
>> whole system if it can't simply adjust in a matter of a few minutes - I
>> guess because of the unsuitability of the infrastructure WRT adsl.
>>
>> In that case I'll opt for the non-router approach and turn off. It's a
>> habit formed when I used to spend a lot of time away from home and
>> didn't want anything on except the fridge-freezer and, in Winter, the
>> boiler set to 10C.
>
> OK, if you prefer to live by habits rather than rational thought... :-(

I disagree. Do you not fail to see the green credentials in shutting an
unused electrical item off? Should a BT system punish you for that? Who
designs this stuff? Retarded chimpanzees? BT is a company of waste and
stupidity - and that's just their 'best brains'!

It is quite one thing to shut off a number of Juniper and Cisco routers
in a data centre, and entirely something else to power off a domestic
'router' when it is not in use to save unnecessary waste. It is entirely
unreasonable to punish someone for acting in such a responsibly fashion.
All this before even considering the obvious security issues and risks of
'always on - even when it does not need to be'.





--
BT Openreach Engineers - all they need to supply for work is their own
socks and pants





--
BT Openreach Engineers - all they need to supply for work is their own
socks and pants

Comtroll wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:20:34 +0100, George Weston wrote:
>>> OK, thanks for the explanation. There seems to be a weakness in the
>>> whole system if it can't simply adjust in a matter of a few minutes - I
>>> guess because of the unsuitability of the infrastructure WRT adsl.
>>>
>>> In that case I'll opt for the non-router approach and turn off. It's a
>>> habit formed when I used to spend a lot of time away from home and
>>> didn't want anything on except the fridge-freezer and, in Winter, the
>>> boiler set to 10C.
>> OK, if you prefer to live by habits rather than rational thought... :-(
>
> I disagree. Do you not fail to see the green credentials in shutting an
> unused electrical item off? Should a BT system punish you for that? Who
> designs this stuff? Retarded chimpanzees? BT is a company of waste and
> stupidity - and that's just their 'best brains'!
>
> It is quite one thing to shut off a number of Juniper and Cisco routers
> in a data centre, and entirely something else to power off a domestic
> 'router' when it is not in use to save unnecessary waste. It is entirely
> unreasonable to punish someone for acting in such a responsibly fashion.
> All this before even considering the obvious security issues and risks of
> 'always on - even when it does not need to be'.
>
>
>
>
>
BT need long periods of ADSL to collect the statistics on the line and
set the nose margin amd BRAS to what they consider to be the best
customer experience.

If you switch the router off, they have no long term statistics and the
line may well end up operating sub optimally.

That's your choice.

Perhaps you also consider the weather to be something someone ought to
do something about. Or perhaps the tides?

There was a guy like you once, Name of Cnut. Remarkably similar to yours.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 05:04:14 +0000, Comtroll wrote:

> I disagree. Do you not fail to see the green credentials in shutting an
> unused electrical item off?

It's not unused.
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 06:16:46 +0100, The Natural Twat Philosopher wrote:

> BT need long periods of ADSL to collect the statistics on the line and
> set the nose margin amd BRAS to what they consider to be the best
> customer experience.

How would you know Mike Black - he of phoney degree, masters and
doctorate. The best response to *anything you post* is FUCK OFF TROLL!




--
BT Openreach Engineers - all they need to supply for work is their own
socks and pants {lunch not included}





--
BT Openreach Engineers - all they need to supply for work is their own
socks and pants

On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 05:49:23 +0000, Comtroll wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 05:42:31 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 05:04:14 +0000, Comtroll wrote:
>>
>>> I disagree. Do you not fail to see the green credentials in shutting
>>> an unused electrical item off?
>>
>> It's not unused.
>
> Then allow BT to pay for the power.

Why? If you don't like it, turn it off and take the consequences.

Ye canna change the laws of physics...

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 22:17:43 +0100, PeterC wrote:

>In that case I'll opt for the non-router approach and turn off. It's a habit
>formed when I used to spend a lot of time away from home and didn't want
>anything on except the fridge-freezer and, in Winter, the boiler set to 10C.

It doesn't make any difference if it's a router or just a modem. You
need to leave it switched on for ten days so that the DSLAM at the
exchange can analyse the line characteristics and then set your fault
thresholds. It needs a continuous connection for those ten days to do
that.

For fault conditions it needs to see 10 disconnects in an hour to
decide that the line is flapping so once the ten days are up it doesn't
really matter if you switch it off when not in use. Of course then it
won't see the line degrading, as it will.

Someone posted a link to a BT document that explained all of this
recently but I can't remember where it was.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com

On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:20:34 +0100, George Weston wrote:

>>>> If I did have a router, would it be troublesome if switched off after a
>>>> few
>>>> hours?
>>>
>>> Well you aren't really giving the DSLAM a chance to find a stable sync
>>> speed, and from there a stable thru put if you keep turning your connection
>>> off and the exchange may well see it as a fault and so reduce your cap in
>>> order to try and make it more stable (stay on longer) which it can't because
>>> you keep turning the modem off.
>>>
>>> It's your choice.....
>>
>> OK, thanks for the explanation. There seems to be a weakness in the whole
>> system if it can't simply adjust in a matter of a few minutes - I guess
>> because of the unsuitability of the infrastructure WRT adsl.
>>
>> In that case I'll opt for the non-router approach and turn off. It's a habit
>> formed when I used to spend a lot of time away from home and didn't want
>> anything on except the fridge-freezer and, in Winter, the boiler set to 10C.
>
> OK, if you prefer to live by habits rather than rational thought... :-(

Yes :-)
Is there a way of just entering 'reasonable' settings into a router, e.g.
within 'best', so that it connects at those each time? If this line at
'best' can manage 3.1M and the router were to be set at 2.8M etc. would that
hold?

I might just try the older stuff that I have - the frog and the card - and
if that works reasonably it'll do.
I'd be happy with 2.5M, some contention and no throttling as that'd suffice
for my purposes.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway