Invisible wireless router

I'm using a wireless router (BT Voyager 2100 ADSL Wireless Router) for a
home network.
It is connected by Ethernet cable to a desktop PC, which has no wireless
capability itself, & by wireless to a laptop and appears to work well. My
SSID is hidden.
I cannot see the router as a connected device, should I be able to &, if so,
where?
As I understand it the router is a networked "computer" and I would
therefore expect to see it in the network somewhere.

My OS is XP Pro SP2 updated with all High Priority updates

My Network Connections window shows:-

LAN or High-Speed Internet

1394 Connection - LAN or High-Speed Internet - Connected - 1394 Net
Adapter - Phone # or Host Address BLANK - System / (This is a card providing
Firewire sockets & is only used for an external HD at the moment)
Local Area Connection - LAN or High-Speed Internet - Connected - AMD
PCnet-Home Based Network Adapter (Generic) - Phone # or Host Address BLANK -
System

When I look at my local workgroup I can only see the desktop & the laptop -
I have set the window to "Show icons for networked UPnP devices" but this
makes no difference.

Grateful for any help,
--
Regards, Roger

"Time Flies at Old Warden" -
http://www.shuttleworth.org/shuttleworth/index.htm
The British Columbia Aviation Museum - http://www.bcam.net/index.htm
The Commonwealth Air Training Plan Museum -
http://www.airmuseum.ca/contents.html

Roger wrote:

>I'm using a wireless router (BT Voyager 2100 ADSL Wireless Router) for a
>home network.
>It is connected by Ethernet cable to a desktop PC, which has no wireless
>capability itself, & by wireless to a laptop and appears to work well. My
>SSID is hidden.
>I cannot see the router as a connected device, should I be able to &, if so,
>where?
>As I understand it the router is a networked "computer" and I would
>therefore expect to see it in the network somewhere.
>
>My OS is XP Pro SP2 updated with all High Priority updates
>
>My Network Connections window shows:-
>
>LAN or High-Speed Internet
>
>1394 Connection - LAN or High-Speed Internet - Connected - 1394 Net
>Adapter - Phone # or Host Address BLANK - System / (This is a card providing
>Firewire sockets & is only used for an external HD at the moment)
>Local Area Connection - LAN or High-Speed Internet - Connected - AMD
>PCnet-Home Based Network Adapter (Generic) - Phone # or Host Address BLANK -
>System
>
>When I look at my local workgroup I can only see the desktop & the laptop -
>I have set the window to "Show icons for networked UPnP devices" but this
>makes no difference.
>
>Grateful for any help,
>
>
No, a router is not usually a computer. It is a node on your LAN, and has
an IPA like any other node, but it is not usually a computer.
{Computers can
be made to run routing software; in that case a router would also be a
computer.} But, standard SOHO routers are not computers and will not appear
in any list of your LAN's computers.

--
Cheers, Bob

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:45:45 +0000 (UTC), "Roger"
<rj111111-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I'm using a wireless router (BT Voyager 2100 ADSL Wireless Router) for a
>home network.
>It is connected by Ethernet cable to a desktop PC, which has no wireless
>capability itself, & by wireless to a laptop and appears to work well. My
>SSID is hidden.
>I cannot see the router as a connected device, should I be able to &, if so,
>where?
>As I understand it the router is a networked "computer" and I would
>therefore expect to see it in the network somewhere.

No. You will not "see" the router in "Network Neighborhood". The
wireless router has an IP address which is only used for configuring
and managing the device. To be able to "see" it with Network
Neighborhood, the router would need to have NETBIOS services running
on top of TCP/IP. There are a small number that do have this, such as
those that act as NAS (Network Attached Storage) devices, but your
device is not one of those.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Roger" <rj111111-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>I have set the window to "Show icons for networked UPnP devices" but this
>makes no difference.

Does this device support UPnP? That's the only way you are going to
see it, though I don't reccomend turning on UPnP, as it doesn't
produce any useful functions, and it tends to introduce security
holes.

Bob Willard wrote:

> No, a router is not usually a computer. It is a node on your LAN, and has
> an IPA like any other node, but it is not usually a computer.

That's fairly misleading. It's closer to say "is not usually a Windows
computer". A router is, by any reasonable definition, a computer. More
specifically, a router will have a TCP/IP address and therefore be
distinguishable by TCP/IP network software. It will not, however, be part
of a Windows workgroup unless it uses the SMB protocol - which has nothing
to do with being a router though it could exist on a computer that performs
_as_ a router.

> {Computers can
> be made to run routing software; in that case a router would also be a
> computer.} But, standard SOHO routers are not computers and will not
> appear in any list of your LAN's computers.

And that is just plain wrong. My routers do indeed show on all sorts of
lists of my LAN's computers. E.g., they show in the output of the "route"
command from both Linux & Windows clients.
--
derek

If your laptop is working on the internet, then your router is working. If
you want to see some proof that your router is actually there, then run a
program called AirSnare. It is free and rather easy to use. It shows the mac
address of everything that is connected on your network. In fact, I just
checked the program to see if anybody connected to my network while I was
asleep last night. The only mac addresses showing are my desktop, laptop,
router, and wireless adapter--which are the only devices that should be
showing on my network.

http://home.comcast.net/~jay.deboer/airsnare/


"Bob Willard" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news--(E-Mail Removed)...
> Roger wrote:
>
>>I'm using a wireless router (BT Voyager 2100 ADSL Wireless Router) for a
>>home network.
>>It is connected by Ethernet cable to a desktop PC, which has no wireless
>>capability itself, & by wireless to a laptop and appears to work well. My
>>SSID is hidden.
>>I cannot see the router as a connected device, should I be able to &, if
>>so, where?
>>As I understand it the router is a networked "computer" and I would
>>therefore expect to see it in the network somewhere.
>>

Derek Broughton wrote:

>Bob Willard wrote:
>
>
>
>>No, a router is not usually a computer. It is a node on your LAN, and has
>>an IPA like any other node, but it is not usually a computer.
>>
>>
>
>That's fairly misleading. It's closer to say "is not usually a Windows
>computer". A router is, by any reasonable definition, a computer. More
>specifically, a router will have a TCP/IP address and therefore be
>distinguishable by TCP/IP network software. It will not, however, be part
>of a Windows workgroup unless it uses the SMB protocol - which has nothing
>to do with being a router though it could exist on a computer that performs
>_as_ a router.
>
>
>
>>{Computers can
>>be made to run routing software; in that case a router would also be a
>>computer.} But, standard SOHO routers are not computers and will not
>>appear in any list of your LAN's computers.
>>
>>
>
>And that is just plain wrong. My routers do indeed show on all sorts of
>lists of my LAN's computers. E.g., they show in the output of the "route"
>command from both Linux & Windows clients.
>
>
<Sputter sputter>

While your statements are technically correct (as were mine), your arguments
are just micro-nit-picking. I contend that the distinction I made between a
router and a computer was clear and correct, even if it does not conform to
your level of puerile pedantic pedagoguery.

</Sputter sputter>

{I don't get many opportunities to say "puerile pedantic pedagoguery".}

--
Cheers, Bob

> specifically, a router will have a TCP/IP address and therefore be
> distinguishable by TCP/IP network software. It will not, however, be part
> of a Windows workgroup unless it uses the SMB protocol - which has nothing

And...

Given that every PC has a routing table, the first thing that each
machine does is a logical AND of the destination and the mask in order
to determine the network and then it consults the local route table to
make a routing decision. What's that if not a router?

> And that is just plain wrong. My routers do indeed show on all sorts of
> lists of my LAN's computers. E.g., they show in the output of the "route"
> command from both Linux & Windows clients.

And don't forget that if it's uPnP then it could well show up in the XP
network places and that even a Linksys has a processor, memory, runs
linux OS so that makes it a computer.

But I think we know what he meant

> see it, though I don't reccomend turning on UPnP, as it doesn't
> produce any useful functions, and it tends to introduce security
> holes.

Depends on how you define "useful functions".

If you call the ability of an application such as MSN Messenger to
enable voice/video easily with a uPNP router then i'd say that could be
useful to someone that doesn't otherwise know how to do it but equally
yes if you didn't want that behaviour then yes holes aren't good either.

David.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:28:06 -0500, William P.N. Smith
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Roger" <rj111111-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>I have set the window to "Show icons for networked UPnP devices" but this
>>makes no difference.

>Does this device support UPnP? That's the only way you are going to
>see it, though I don't reccomend turning on UPnP, as it doesn't
>produce any useful functions, and it tends to introduce security
>holes.

Egads. I forgot about UPnP. The very first thing I do in the router
configuration is disarm this mis-feature. I've noticed that the
default setting seems to follow a pattern. Originally, almost every
router that had UPnP delivered it enabled by default. Then, the
security experts started suggesting that this is a very bad idea. So,
later firmware updates arrived with UPnP off by default. Eventually,
Microsoft decided that shoving MSN Messenger in your face was more
important than security, and started convincing manufactories to ship
UPnP on by default. Most of the current firmware ships with it on
(again). Of course, I can't easily prove this, but it probably makes
a good conspiracy theory.

Checking... Yep. Linksys WRT54G v5 ships with UPnP enabled.

What I find disgusting is that UPnP (which has very little to do with
Windoze Plug and Play) is actually a potentially useful feature:
http://www.upnp.org
In theory, it could be used to automatically configure clients to
connect to routers, routers connect to ISP's, and configure network
devices from the router. It would be especially useful for home
networking devices that could derive all their settings from a common
server. Kinda like an expanded version of DHCP. However, all it
seems to do after 6 years of "development" is punch 2 holes in the
firewall for each MSN Messenger client.