intermittent ADSL (long)

I've had ADSL since about April 2004. In September the service became really
poor, days would pass without a connection.

We tried everything, plugging the router directly into the master socket,
trying an ordinary ADSL modem and several other things that are the standard
elimination procedure. BT say they've checked the line and found nothing.

We changed from Bulldog as we were convinced it was them, thanks to the
rantings of many disgruntled users on ADSLGuide.org. We switched over to
Fast4 and had a much better experience, though it is still intermittent at
times.

When the connection goes down, the router "diagnose" facility will return:

ADSL Line: Fail
PPP Test: Fail
ISP Link: Fail
DNS Test: Fail

or

ADSL Line: Pass
PPP Test: Fail
ISP Link: Fail
DNS Test: Fail

Using another modem returns the same (or equivalent) messages.

However, the problem is so intermittent that it's hard to get the same
response from "diagnose" twice!

Does anybody have any advice or ideas on what the problem is?

Here is some dialogue between me and the ISP, in case it helps you help me:

We have been asked by BT to ask you for the answers to the following
questions:
1. Does the loss of connection occur only at certain times of the day or
is it continuous? If only at certain times, please state the time.
2. How long has the problem been occurring for, when did it start?
3. What is the EU doing at the time of the fault? E.g. downloading large
files / does it only drop when idle?
4. When the EU loses connection is sync lost on the modem/router? I.e.
does the ADSL link light start flashing or does it remain solid green?
5. Does the EU have any other equipment on the line that may affect
service, such as a fax machine/ Is PSTN service OK?
6. Could the EU connect PC/modem/router to master socket, leaving all
other equipment disconnected and see if the problem still happens?
7. Has the EU modem/router been changed within last two years?
8. Has the micro filter being changed to prove if it is a problem?
9. Is the EU on a particular website when it drops?
10. Is the session actually disconnecting (requiring EU to login again),
or is it degrading to almost nothing (session stays up, but hardly
usable)?
11. Can the EU reconnect again straight away, or do they have to reboot?
12. Does the EU use any other protocols and applications other than
Web-browser, email and FTP?
13. Does the EU get an error code when they log on again?
14. Have filters been added to all used points?
15. Is there an alarm system on the property, which utilises the phone
line?
16. Has the customer anything else connected to their PC besides the
modem/router?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi - thanks for your continued support efforts. Below are my responses to
the 16 questions. It looks to me that BT really need to run a diagnostic on
the line or send an engineer out because as it stands, I'm paying money for
what has degraded to an almost non-existent service.
I do appreciate your help so keep up the good work!

1. There is no pattern.
2. Problem started in September
3. Makes no difference.
4. Sometimes the ADSL Link fails, other times the PPP link, DNS link or ISP
link fails. It is usually the ADSL Link fails though.
5. Normal telephone is fine. The only thing connected is a single telephone
which is connected through the microfilter.
6. Have tried this, with no change to quality of service. Still just as bad.
7. Was brand new in March when ADSL was originally installed.
8. Yes I have tried another micro filter and the problem remains - last
check was ASDL Line Fail or ADSL Line Pass and PPP Test Fail
9. Happens at any time. Often cannot obtain any website whatsoever from
outset.
10. Router reports "Idle" or "connecting" or "handshake" on rare occasions
it will be very very slow
11. Sometimes rebooting can help other times it makes no difference. Same
goes for unplugging/plugging back in the router.
12. No
13. Just the router diagnostics ADSL Link Fail, PPP Fail, DNS Fail or ISP
Link Fail.
14. Only one point used, master socket and filter is used there.
15. There is no such alarm system fitted to the property.
16. Nothing else connected.

We have been asked by BT to ask you for the answers to the following
questions:
1. Does the loss of connection occur only at certain times of the day or
is it continuous? If only at certain times, please state the time.
2. How long has the problem been occurring for, when did it start?
3. What is the EU doing at the time of the fault? E.g. downloading large
files / does it only drop when idle?
4. When the EU loses connection is sync lost on the modem/router? I.e.
does the ADSL link light start flashing or does it remain solid green?
5. Does the EU have any other equipment on the line that may affect
service, such as a fax machine/ Is PSTN service OK?
6. Could the EU connect PC/modem/router to master socket, leaving all
other equipment disconnected and see if the problem still happens?
7. Has the EU modem/router been changed within last two years?
8. Has the micro filter being changed to prove if it is a problem?
9. Is the EU on a particular website when it drops?
10. Is the session actually disconnecting (requiring EU to login again),
or is it degrading to almost nothing (session stays up, but hardly
usable)?
11. Can the EU reconnect again straight away, or do they have to reboot?
12. Does the EU use any other protocols and applications other than
Web-browser, email and FTP?
13. Does the EU get an error code when they log on again?
14. Have filters been added to all used points?
15. Is there an alarm system on the property, which utilises the phone
line?
16. Has the customer anything else connected to their PC besides the
modem/router?

fishman <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I've had ADSL since about April 2004. In September the service became really
> poor, days would pass without a connection.
>
> We tried everything, plugging the router directly into the master socket,
> trying an ordinary ADSL modem and several other things that are the standard
> elimination procedure. BT say they've checked the line and found nothing.
>
> We changed from Bulldog as we were convinced it was them, thanks to the
> rantings of many disgruntled users on ADSLGuide.org. We switched over to
> Fast4 and had a much better experience, though it is still intermittent at
> times.
>
> When the connection goes down, the router "diagnose" facility will return:
>
> ADSL Line: Fail

AIUI.
This can only mean that there is a problem with the modem/line/exchange.

Have you tried disconnecting everything, and plugging hte modem in at the
master socket?

Extension wiring or filter faults can cause this.

fishman wrote:
> I've had ADSL since about April 2004. In September the service became
> really poor, days would pass without a connection.

<rest of long and interesting post snipped>

Welcome to the club! My experiences (10 days now) are different in
some respects, but just as frustrating as yours. I posted here at
15/01/2005 21:14 "Slow (and erratic) downloading". I received 4 replies
(for which I'm grateful) but none has helped towards a solution.
A major (and particularly puzzling) feature of my problem (which is
confined to downloading - uploading speeds are always ok) is that all is
perfect between about 0815hrs. and 1615hrs. Outside those hours it's
often impossible to d/l an ordinary web-page. I expect I may have to
resort to my standby PAYG dial-up connection to get this post away
today - my ADSL service effectively ceased at 1630hrs..
Your list of 16 questions is particularly useful, and I'll be
preparing my answers to them so that I can send them to my ISP, setting
them out in question-and-answer form - with me both asking the question
and giving the answer.
I'll look with great interest for answers to your post.

--
DB.

We are having somewhat similar issues, though generally not connection
drops.
We moved house back in March and everything was fine up until then. Since
then we have had some periods where the router has been rebooted and takes
anywhere up to nearly a day to get synchronisation back. I've logged
several incidents where it has happened and have proof of the times but so
far nothing has come of it.
We have been through three routers, even more filters, just as many wires
etc. Everything our end has been replaced. When the problem isn't there,
everything works hunkey dorey. When the problem is there, nothing I can do
will get synchronisation back.
We have a BT engineer booked out tomorrow morning, I expect him to turn up,
find everything working and go away again and then my ISP will have to
battle with BT to get them to believe it really is something wrong their
end.

--
Colin
*Drop DEAD from the email address to reply*

"cw" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns95E2C1556FBE4cwfidei@212.159.2.85...
> We are having somewhat similar issues, though generally not connection
> drops.
> We moved house back in March and everything was fine up until then. Since
> then we have had some periods where the router has been rebooted and takes
> anywhere up to nearly a day to get synchronisation back. I've logged
> several incidents where it has happened and have proof of the times but so
> far nothing has come of it.
> We have been through three routers, even more filters, just as many wires
> etc. Everything our end has been replaced. When the problem isn't there,
> everything works hunkey dorey. When the problem is there, nothing I can do
> will get synchronisation back.

it sounds like a wiring / poor connection issue. if you can try
disconnecting everything past the master BT socket.

FWIW i was having similar issues for a relatives house, but at a lower
level - link would generally come up, but then drop out after 10 minutes in
the evening.

The link was running at 62 dB loss, but only 3 dB margin. The router would
only work plugged into 1 specific socket, others gave much worse results.

we got rid of the old home highway (on a different pair, not hosting ADSL),
since we thought we could be getting cross interference - made no difference

eventually we got BT in, and they found wiring problems in the house between
the master socket and the 4 or 5 extentions which were causing signal
problems.

They swapped some pairs / cores around, and fitted a master socket filter
rather than the 3 micro filters we had put in. everything has worked well
since.

> We have a BT engineer booked out tomorrow morning, I expect him to turn
up,
> find everything working and go away again and then my ISP will have to
> battle with BT to get them to believe it really is something wrong their
> end.
>
> --
> Colin
> *Drop DEAD from the email address to reply*
--
Regards

Stephen Hope - return address needs fewer xxs

"Ian Stirling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

> Have you tried disconnecting everything, and plugging hte modem in at the
> master socket?
>
> Extension wiring or filter faults can cause this.

Yes if you read my rather long original post in full, you'd have seen that I
tried plugging the modem direct to the master socket. I've tried two modems,
both of which will report the same ASDL Line or PPP Test "fail".

I've tried two different microfilters and I've tried it with nothing else
plugged into the line as well.

fishman wrote:
> "Ian Stirling" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>
>> Have you tried disconnecting everything, and plugging hte modem in
>> at the master socket?
>>
>> Extension wiring or filter faults can cause this.
>
> Yes if you read my rather long original post in full, you'd have seen
> that I tried plugging the modem direct to the master socket. I've
> tried two modems, both of which will report the same ASDL Line or PPP
> Test "fail".
> I've tried two different microfilters and I've tried it with nothing
> else plugged into the line as well.

You still haven't answered the question, as if you just plug into the master
socket any extension wiring which is connected to the back of the faceplate
is still attatched & it is that which you need to disconnect...

In other words have you removed the faceplate & tested from the test socket
behind it??

"kraftee" <kraftee@spamoff& die.com> wrote

> You still haven't answered the question, as if you just plug into the
> master socket any extension wiring which is connected to the back of the
> faceplate is still attatched & it is that which you need to disconnect...
>
> In other words have you removed the faceplate & tested from the test
> socket behind it??

Makes more sense this time.

The master socket is brand new and has no extensions coming off it. But I
haven't tried taking off the faceplate. I'll try that later and report back
on here.

"stephen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:H_gHd.1029$MG1.144
@newsfe4-win.ntli.net:

> it sounds like a wiring / poor connection issue. if you can try
> disconnecting everything past the master BT socket.
>

Wiring it ain't. When I said everything had been replaced several times I
meant EVERYTHING. Wires and all. When the problem is evident, nothing will
get the connection working. Not even plugging directly into the master
socket makes any difference.
My line loss statistics are pretty damn good when the connection is up and
we do not suffer from disconnects. The problem we have would appear to only
ocurr when the router is powered off and powered back on again. It is as
though the DSLAM at the exchange is holding the old connection open and
ignoring any attempts to establish a new one for a random length of time.
After a couple of hours on site today that was about all the BT engineer
could say (he turned up nearly an hour after the allocated timeslot and I'm
told he was somewhat rude at first and automatically assumed it was a
wiring problem because it was self install).

The worst part of it is that this is an intermittant problem with no
apparant pattern so there is bugger all chance of tracking it down. If I
could figure out some way to force the connection back when it goes down I
wouldn't mind so much but it really is a pain when it is off for hours on
end.

--
Colin
*Drop DEAD from the email address to reply*

On 20 Jan 2005 19:38:03 GMT, cw <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>When the problem is evident, nothing will
>get the connection working. Not even plugging directly into the master
>socket makes any difference.

is that the test socket ? or the front plate still connected to all
the extensions socket ?

Phil
--
spamcop.net address commissioned 18/06/04
Come on down !