"Insufficient line plant"

A friend who runs a garage business wants to get broadband. BT tell him
that he can't have it because there is a DACS on his line, and there are no
spare pairs into his village which would allow removal of the DACS !!!!

This isn't a remote location, it's about 20 miles south of Norwich!

Is there any accepted procedure to persuade BT to install more lines?

--
Graham J

"Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4705f1bb$0$13929$(E-Mail Removed)...
>A friend who runs a garage business wants to get broadband. BT tell him
>that he can't have it because there is a DACS on his line, and there are no
>spare pairs into his village which would allow removal of the DACS !!!!
>
> This isn't a remote location, it's about 20 miles south of Norwich!
>
> Is there any accepted procedure to persuade BT to install more lines?

I'll be interested to hear if anything can be done about this, because my
parents are in the same situation in their cottage in Yorkshire: they are
close enough to the exchange to get broadband (according to the BT
line-length app) but there are very few pairs going to the village so every
line is via a DACS. People can't even get second lines for faxes or dial-up
so as to leave their main line free for voice.

Graham wrote:

> A friend who runs a garage business wants to get broadband. BT tell him
> that he can't have it because there is a DACS on his line, and there are no
> spare pairs into his village which would allow removal of the DACS !!!!
>
> This isn't a remote location, it's about 20 miles south of Norwich!
>
> Is there any accepted procedure to persuade BT to install more lines?

Well .... if we in the UK are ever going to get up to speed maybe there should
be a compulsory requirement for the provision of broadband to the home and
business ?

Graham

"Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

> A friend who runs a garage business wants to get broadband. BT tell him
> that he can't have it because there is a DACS on his line, and there are no
> spare pairs into his village which would allow removal of the DACS !!!!

Maybe the answer would be for someone to build more houses or split a
large house into flats. BT's USO requires them to provide, if requested,
a voice line to each premise. So if there are no spare pairs, BT would
be forced to install new lines to the village. Hopefully while they are
doing this they would put in enough lines to remove the DACS and allow
for future expansion.

"Eeyore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>
> Graham wrote:
>
>> A friend who runs a garage business wants to get broadband. BT tell him
>> that he can't have it because there is a DACS on his line, and there are
>> no
>> spare pairs into his village which would allow removal of the DACS !!!!
>>
>> This isn't a remote location, it's about 20 miles south of Norwich!
>>
>> Is there any accepted procedure to persuade BT to install more lines?
>
> Well .... if we in the UK are ever going to get up to speed maybe there
> should
> be a compulsory requirement for the provision of broadband to the home and
> business ?
>
> Graham

The answer is to complain like hell to BT. Do it in writing and get names.
The further up the chain of command the better.
Their current stated policy is to remove DACS to enable broadband "wherever
possible".
I complained right up to the CEO's office a few years back, before removal
of DACS wasn't their policy.
It worked for me - took them a while to do it but they did.
If there physically aren't enough pairs in the local network for DACS to be
removed, then BT should be putting in place plans to uplift the local
network.
This process should be triggered by complaints such as your friend's.
They shouldn't just sit back and do nothing.
Tell him to start making a nuisance of himself - and involve the press as
well.
I sent a copy of my DACS complaint to the Sunday Times and they ran an
article on my problem and contacted BT.
Anything that gives them bad publicity will help make them shift their
asses!

Best of luck,

George

"George Weston" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "Eeyore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>
>> Graham wrote:
>>
>>> A friend who runs a garage business wants to get broadband. BT tell him
>>> that he can't have it because there is a DACS on his line, and there are
>>> no
>>> spare pairs into his village which would allow removal of the DACS !!!!
>>>
>>> This isn't a remote location, it's about 20 miles south of Norwich!
>>>
>>> Is there any accepted procedure to persuade BT to install more lines?
>>
>> Well .... if we in the UK are ever going to get up to speed maybe there
>> should
>> be a compulsory requirement for the provision of broadband to the home
>> and
>> business ?
>>
>> Graham
>
> The answer is to complain like hell to BT. Do it in writing and get names.
> The further up the chain of command the better.
> Their current stated policy is to remove DACS to enable broadband
> "wherever possible".
> I complained right up to the CEO's office a few years back, before removal
> of DACS wasn't their policy.
> It worked for me - took them a while to do it but they did.
> If there physically aren't enough pairs in the local network for DACS to
> be removed, then BT should be putting in place plans to uplift the local
> network.
> This process should be triggered by complaints such as your friend's.
> They shouldn't just sit back and do nothing.
> Tell him to start making a nuisance of himself - and involve the press as
> well.
> I sent a copy of my DACS complaint to the Sunday Times and they ran an
> article on my problem and contacted BT.
> Anything that gives them bad publicity will help make them shift their
> asses!

How many subscribers are typically multiplexed over a single DACS and a
single pair back to the exchange?

Does the chance of success depend on the number of subscribers? If so, my
parents' village may be doomed because there are only about 15 houses in the
village itself - with outlying farms along some of the roads in/out. Is
there more chance of getting (for example) 50 new pairs to serve 50 new
lines than to get 5 new pairs to serve 5 new lines?

"Mortimer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "George Weston" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>> "Eeyore" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>
>>>
>>> Graham wrote:
>>>
>>>> A friend who runs a garage business wants to get broadband. BT tell
>>>> him
>>>> that he can't have it because there is a DACS on his line, and there
>>>> are no
>>>> spare pairs into his village which would allow removal of the DACS !!!!
>>>>
>>>> This isn't a remote location, it's about 20 miles south of Norwich!
>>>>
>>>> Is there any accepted procedure to persuade BT to install more lines?
>>>
>>> Well .... if we in the UK are ever going to get up to speed maybe there
>>> should
>>> be a compulsory requirement for the provision of broadband to the home
>>> and
>>> business ?
>>>
>>> Graham
>>
>> The answer is to complain like hell to BT. Do it in writing and get
>> names. The further up the chain of command the better.
>> Their current stated policy is to remove DACS to enable broadband
>> "wherever possible".
>> I complained right up to the CEO's office a few years back, before
>> removal of DACS wasn't their policy.
>> It worked for me - took them a while to do it but they did.
>> If there physically aren't enough pairs in the local network for DACS to
>> be removed, then BT should be putting in place plans to uplift the local
>> network.
>> This process should be triggered by complaints such as your friend's.
>> They shouldn't just sit back and do nothing.
>> Tell him to start making a nuisance of himself - and involve the press as
>> well.
>> I sent a copy of my DACS complaint to the Sunday Times and they ran an
>> article on my problem and contacted BT.
>> Anything that gives them bad publicity will help make them shift their
>> asses!
>
> How many subscribers are typically multiplexed over a single DACS and a
> single pair back to the exchange?
>
> Does the chance of success depend on the number of subscribers? If so, my
> parents' village may be doomed because there are only about 15 houses in
> the village itself - with outlying farms along some of the roads in/out.
> Is there more chance of getting (for example) 50 new pairs to serve 50 new
> lines than to get 5 new pairs to serve 5 new lines?

Two lines per DACS box, IIRC.
BT's policy now is to not fit any more DACS units, so if some more demand
for lines was made in the village and all the DACS boxes/circuits were
already used up, they would have to provide new line plant to meet the
demand (and hopefully do away with the exiting DACSes at the same time).
How about canvassing the residents in your parents' village and get them to
apply for second lines in their houses? :-)
George
>
>

"George Weston" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>> How many subscribers are typically multiplexed over a single DACS and a
>> single pair back to the exchange?
>>
>> Does the chance of success depend on the number of subscribers? If so, my
>> parents' village may be doomed because there are only about 15 houses in
>> the village itself - with outlying farms along some of the roads in/out.
>> Is there more chance of getting (for example) 50 new pairs to serve 50
>> new lines than to get 5 new pairs to serve 5 new lines?
>
> Two lines per DACS box, IIRC.
> BT's policy now is to not fit any more DACS units, so if some more demand
> for lines was made in the village and all the DACS boxes/circuits were
> already used up, they would have to provide new line plant to meet the
> demand (and hopefully do away with the exiting DACSes at the same time).
> How about canvassing the residents in your parents' village and get them
> to apply for second lines in their houses? :-)

When the residents asked (individually but all at around the same time) a
few years ago, they were told that all the houses had one phone line, and
BT's obligation was only to provide one line (subsequent ones being on a
best-endeavours basis). There were no spare pairs and no extra capacity on
the existing pairs (so presumably every pair had a DACS driving two lines),
and BT did not intend ever to supply any more pairs, so there could never be
any new lines.

Intriguingly, when there were tentative plans to build a couple of new
houses, one of the reasons that the plans never went ahead was that it would
never be possible to give the houses telephone lines. This suggests that BT
did not intend even to honour the "one line per house", which I thought was
a non-negotiable statutory obligation.

I think this was in the days before the exchange supported ADSL, when people
wanted scond lines for dial-up internet or fax, so the need to un-DACS the
lines to support ADSL didn't arise, but it is now an issue.

BT's line tester says that various numbers in the village should support
broadband at (I think) 2 Mbps, so line length is evidently not an issue, but
that there may be (ie there is!) incompatible equipment on the line.

"Mortimer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

<snip>
> When the residents asked (individually but all at around the same time) a
> few years ago, they were told that all the houses had one phone line, and
> BT's obligation was only to provide one line (subsequent ones being on a
> best-endeavours basis). There were no spare pairs and no extra capacity on
> the existing pairs (so presumably every pair had a DACS driving two
> lines), and BT did not intend ever to supply any more pairs, so there
> could never be any new lines.

That would be the case but it's amazing how BT can react when faced with a
media onslaught.
All the more reason to complain - a concerted effort by all villagers
directed towards national and local media (including the local BBC/ITV
stations) might well make a difference. All it would take would be a bit of
co-ordinating and letter-writing. Also involve the local parish, district
and county councillors, and the local MP. They will all add weight to your
campaign.

> Intriguingly, when there were tentative plans to build a couple of new
> houses, one of the reasons that the plans never went ahead was that it
> would never be possible to give the houses telephone lines. This suggests
> that BT did not intend even to honour the "one line per house", which I
> thought was a non-negotiable statutory obligation.

The planning process does not take into account the availability or
otherwise of telephone service as a valid reason for or against granting
planning permission. I know this, as I am a Community Councillor involved in
making recommendations for planning applications in my part of Wales (in
England they are called parish councillors).
However, it could well be that the person or persons who proposed to build
the new houses decided not to do so for this reason? I don't think this
would be the case, as they'd be throwing away the chance to make a few quid,
so my gut instinct is that this is a bit of a rural (as opposed to an urban)
myth.
>
> I think this was in the days before the exchange supported ADSL, when
> people wanted scond lines for dial-up internet or fax, so the need to
> un-DACS the lines to support ADSL didn't arise, but it is now an issue.

All the more reason to complain.

> BT's line tester says that various numbers in the village should support
> broadband at (I think) 2 Mbps, so line length is evidently not an issue,
> but that there may be (ie there is!) incompatible equipment on the line.

Again, all the more reason to complain.
The forecast speed is greater than that in my remote-ish village.
My forecast speed was 1Mbps but I am actually achieving 2Mbps to 3Mbps on a
daily basis.
(Current speed is 2.3Mbps).

Go for it!

George

"Mortimer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Graham" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:4705f1bb$0$13929$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>A friend who runs a garage business wants to get broadband. BT tell him
>>that he can't have it because there is a DACS on his line, and there are
>>no spare pairs into his village which would allow removal of the DACS !!!!
>>
>> This isn't a remote location, it's about 20 miles south of Norwich!
>>
>> Is there any accepted procedure to persuade BT to install more lines?
>
> I'll be interested to hear if anything can be done about this, because my
> parents are in the same situation in their cottage in Yorkshire: they are
> close enough to the exchange to get broadband (according to the BT
> line-length app) but there are very few pairs going to the village so
> every line is via a DACS. People can't even get second lines for faxes or
> dial-up so as to leave their main line free for voice.
>

The solution is in the users hands.. find the people with two lines and
persuade them to drop one line and get broadband. Then start a community
WiFi service for the ones that remain using the broadband.