Installing broadband in a civic building on a phone line that I don't own

Hi,

The local heritage society maintains a heritage centre in a room of the
town hall. We have been given a donation which we wish to use to get a
broadband connection put into the heritage centre.

The town hall has a caretaker's office with a phone and we have been
given permission to get broadband installed on this line. The only
restriction is that we must not run up the phone bill for which
broadband is absolutely ideal - the town council will continue to pay BT
for it's phone line and we will pay the ISP for the broadband.

Great, so far......

The phone wiring in the town hall is "interesting". It dates from 1974,
however the caretaker's office has been moved twice since then resulting
in multiple extensions and branches to the cable. Given that the wiring
is crappy and we will not have control over the phones (and hence cannot
guarantee the correct use of microfilters) a faceplate splitter would
seem to be indicated. Unfortunately there does not appear to be an NTE5
on the line so we will need to get BT involved.

Now for the questions....

Are there any potential pitfalls in getting broadband put onto a phone
line that I don't own. (The owner is fully co-operative but not
technically knowledgeable so we cannot ask him to make the arrangements
on our behalf).

Which is best - do I contact BT to put an NTE5 in and then add my own
faceplate splitter, or do I ask the ISP for a BT install and let them
make all the arrangements? Which is most cost effective?

Given that the line will probably be a business line, not a domestic
line, does that change anything? Will it affect the installation costs?

There are a number of possible places when the line might be entering
the building, none of them near the heritage centre. Should I ask BT to
put the NTE5 where I want it (in the heritage centre) or should I let
them put it where they want (presumably at the point of entry) and then
run a length of good quality cable myself to take the unfiltered signal
to the heritage centre. The deciding factor is almost certainly going to
be cost, at what point do BT start charging for extra cabling, and how
much do they charge? How is this affected if I have paid the ISP for a
BT install rather than paying BT to just install a phone socket?

I realise that the correct answer to my questions is going to be call
BT/ISP and ask, but I'd like to be forewarned in case there are any pits
that I might fall into along the way, particularly in relation to the
fact that it's not my phone line.

Has anyone been in this situation? Does anyone have any pearls of wisdom
to share?

TIA.
Martin.

On 30-Sep-2006, Martin Wiseman <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Has anyone been in this situation? Does anyone have any pearls of wisdom
> to share?

I take it that BT is not your preferred ISP, to make life simpler.
BT will almost certainly, if they install an NTE5 put at the point of
entry of their cable, and charge an arm and a leg for any extra
wiring. (You can DIY and go down floors if you ride on top of the
lift paying out cable as it decends)
So it depends on the layout of the building. Can you run a cable
from the entry point to where you want, building risers and ducts
etc?
(Secure) wireless might be an option, also consider power line
distribution.
Short of seeing the site it's an open ended question.
With an ISP and BT involved each will blame the other if there
are problems, if it's only BT then it's one point of contact for
the inevitable runaround, and the BT calls will probably be free.

> The local heritage society maintains a heritage centre in a room of
> the town hall. We have been given a donation which we wish to use to
> get a broadband connection put into the heritage centre.
>
> The town hall has a caretaker's office with a phone and we have been
> given permission to get broadband installed on this line. The only
> restriction is that we must not run up the phone bill for which
> broadband is absolutely ideal - the town council will continue to pay
> BT for it's phone line and we will pay the ISP for the broadband.
>
> Great, so far......

> The phone wiring in the town hall is "interesting". It dates from
> 1974, however the caretaker's office has been moved twice since then
> resulting in multiple extensions and branches to the cable. Given
> that the wiring is crappy and we will not have control over the
> phones (and hence cannot guarantee the correct use of microfilters) a
> faceplate splitter would seem to be indicated. Unfortunately there
> does not appear to be an NTE5 on the line so we will need to get BT
> involved.
> Now for the questions....
>
> Are there any potential pitfalls in getting broadband put onto a phone
> line that I don't own. (The owner is fully co-operative but not
> technically knowledgeable so we cannot ask him to make the
> arrangements on our behalf).

Except that BT don't usually allow the phone and broadband accounts to be in
different names. If they realise this you may have a problem.

> Which is best - do I contact BT to put an NTE5 in and then add my own
> faceplate splitter, or do I ask the ISP for a BT install and let them
> make all the arrangements? Which is most cost effective?

> Given that the line will probably be a business line, not a domestic
> line, does that change anything? Will it affect the installation
> costs?
> There are a number of possible places when the line might be entering
> the building, none of them near the heritage centre. Should I ask BT
> to put the NTE5 where I want it (in the heritage centre) or should I
> let them put it where they want (presumably at the point of entry)
> and then run a length of good quality cable myself to take the
> unfiltered signal to the heritage centre. The deciding factor is
> almost certainly going to be cost, at what point do BT start charging
> for extra cabling, and how much do they charge? How is this affected
> if I have paid the ISP for a BT install rather than paying BT to just
> install a phone socket?
> I realise that the correct answer to my questions is going to be call
> BT/ISP and ask, but I'd like to be forewarned in case there are any
> pits that I might fall into along the way, particularly in relation
> to the fact that it's not my phone line.
>
> Has anyone been in this situation? Does anyone have any pearls of
> wisdom to share?

BT will normally only deal with the account holder so you may have a problem
there. From what you have said any of the cabling work will be chargeable by
BT. IMHO the best solution would be to have the NTE5 socket where you want
it and fit a Clarity IT type faceplate. This would mean that all phone
sockets would automatically be filtered and you could just plug your
router/modem in without further wiring.

Peter Crosland

>
> Except that BT don't usually allow the phone and broadband accounts to be
> in different names. If they realise this you may have a problem.
>

I have broadband with Zen but I did start with BT and I am not the line
account holder.

I am sure you can get arround that if it is a problem, the council seem to
be very helpful to you.

"Peter Crosland" <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:


> Except that BT don't usually allow the phone and broadband accounts to be in
> different names. If they realise this you may have a problem.

Given that, as has be pointed out several times, for broadband BT's
customer is the ISP *not* the end-user, why should BT even need to
know the name of the broadband account (ie the name of the ISP's
customer)? The ISP is paying them to provide ADSL on the given phone
line and they (the part of BT providing broadband) will not talk to
the end-user, so the name on the broadband account should be
irrelevant.

On 1-Oct-2006, "It's Me" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> I am sure you can get arround that if it is a problem, the council seem to
> be very helpful to you.

I'm a little surprised that a town hall and civic building has only one
phone line, and does not already have broadband.
If there is more than one phone line your options increase, there
may even be a building junction box (Distribution Point DP). If an
existing broadband, then a router may suffice.
I presume that a new phone line just for BB is out, if not, it
could be terminated where convenient for you, and probably
with an NTE5 as part of the install.

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> On 30-Sep-2006, Martin Wiseman <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone been in this situation? Does anyone have any pearls of wisdom
>> to share?
>
> I take it that BT is not your preferred ISP, to make life simpler.

It might have, at one time, made life simpler. It doesnt now, BT Broadband
and BT wholesale are as now as alien to each other as Tiscali is to BT
Wholesale.

BT broadband customer service has been offshored in the same way most others
have, indian customer service drones reading script, which they *will not*
deviate from.

How many times i have being told to reinstall the drivers for my 'router' by
the idiots at tiscali and BT.

Gaz

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> .. (You can DIY and go down floors if you ride on top of the
> lift paying out cable as it decends)

You certainly cannot do that; neither the IEE Wiring Regulations nor,
probably, the lift maintainer, allow any cables in a lift shaft other
than those related to the lift installation.

Owain

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> I'm a little surprised that a town hall and civic building has only one
> phone line, and does not already have broadband.

It's quite possible the caretaker's phone is the only direct exchange
line and everything else is supplied by ISDN into a PABX

> I presume that a new phone line just for BB is out, if not, it
> could be terminated where convenient for you, and probably
> with an NTE5 as part of the install.

Would be the easiest option.

Owain

Martin Wiseman wrote:
> The town hall has a caretaker's office with a phone and we have been
> given permission to get broadband installed on this line. ...
> The phone wiring in the town hall is "interesting". It dates from 1974,
> however the caretaker's office has been moved twice since then resulting
> in multiple extensions and branches to the cable. ...
> There are a number of possible places when the line might be entering
> the building, none of them near the heritage centre. Should I ask BT to
> put the NTE5 where I want it (in the heritage centre) or should I let
> them put it where they want (presumably at the point of entry) and then
> run a length of good quality cable myself to take the unfiltered signal
> to the heritage centre.

I would get the NTE5 put at the point of entry and connect your router
there (in a lockable wallbox). Then connect all the phone
wiring/extensions to the filtered output of the NTE5. Run 1 Cat5 cable
(or even fibre) to a switch in the heritage centre.

This has the advantages that the phone extensions cannot inadvertently
become unfiltered and possibly compromise your broadband, and that your
heritage centre does not have access to the phone line, cannot plug in a
phone, and cannot be accused at a later date of making any calls.

Only drawback is you would need to arrange power to the wallbox.

Owain