Increasing wireless internet signal between buildings

I have wireless Internet in my office. I would like to send the
signal over to my house, which is about 120 feet away. I've tried a
LinkSys Wireless G-Router, which provides a steady but rather weak
signal when used with a Hawking USB directional dish. I've also been
reading about a signal boosting device called a Super Cantenna, which
looks like a large Pringles can. Would it help in my situation?
Should I use the Hawking or the Cantenna or both? Thanks. Mike

tenplay wrote:
> I have wireless Internet in my office. I would like to send the
> signal over to my house, which is about 120 feet away. I've tried a
> LinkSys Wireless G-Router, which provides a steady but rather weak
> signal when used with a Hawking USB directional dish. I've also been
> reading about a signal boosting device called a Super Cantenna, which
> looks like a large Pringles can. Would it help in my situation?
> Should I use the Hawking or the Cantenna or both? Thanks. Mike

A reflector for your router will increase the signal significantly. Use
it with the Hawking.

http://www.freeantennas.com/projects...te2/index.html

tenplay wrote:
> I have wireless Internet in my office. I would like to send the
> signal over to my house, which is about 120 feet away. I've tried a
> LinkSys Wireless G-Router, which provides a steady but rather weak
> signal when used with a Hawking USB directional dish. I've also been
> reading about a signal boosting device called a Super Cantenna, which
> looks like a large Pringles can. Would it help in my situation?
> Should I use the Hawking or the Cantenna or both? Thanks. Mike

Uh oh, should work fine UNLESS you have tinted/solar radiation protection
that most office windows have, that also tend to block/attentuate radio
signals.. Do your office windows open, or are they the sealed type (that
most likely also block the signal).. Can you try from outside rather than
thru the glass?

"Peter Pan" <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:

>Uh oh, should work fine UNLESS you have tinted/solar radiation protection
>that most office windows have, that also tend to block/attentuate radio
>signals.. Do your office windows open, or are they the sealed type (that
>most likely also block the signal).. Can you try from outside rather than
>thru the glass?

There are now several different types of window tints, films, dyes,
and coatings. The common aluminized mylar coating will block RF quite
nicely. The ceramic coatings pass RF easily. The problem is that
they're rather expensive.
<http://www.tintcenter.com/films/huperoptik/ho_c/>
<http://www.huperoptikusa.com>
Most such ceramic coatings are used on automobiles and homes. I
haven't seen any on office buildings yet. I couldn't find anything on
the RF characteristics. If it trashes cell phone reception, it's
probably a metalized film coating.

I once had to deal with getting a 2.4GHz wireless link through an
office building with tinted windows. It was like trying to go through
a brick wall. I ended up with a roof mounted antenna and radio,
powered by PoE.

Then, there's RF blocking wallpaper:
<http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ss_tes_atc_adv_mat_stealthy.html>
Sigh.

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> "Peter Pan" <(E-Mail Removed)> hath wroth:
>
>> Uh oh, should work fine UNLESS you have tinted/solar radiation
>> protection that most office windows have, that also tend to
>> block/attentuate radio signals.. Do your office windows open, or are
>> they the sealed type (that most likely also block the signal).. Can
>> you try from outside rather than thru the glass?
>
> There are now several different types of window tints, films, dyes,
> and coatings. The common aluminized mylar coating will block RF quite
> nicely. The ceramic coatings pass RF easily. The problem is that
> they're rather expensive.
> <http://www.tintcenter.com/films/huperoptik/ho_c/>
> <http://www.huperoptikusa.com>
> Most such ceramic coatings are used on automobiles and homes. I
> haven't seen any on office buildings yet. I couldn't find anything on
> the RF characteristics. If it trashes cell phone reception, it's
> probably a metalized film coating.
>
> I once had to deal with getting a 2.4GHz wireless link through an
> office building with tinted windows. It was like trying to go through
> a brick wall. I ended up with a roof mounted antenna and radio,
> powered by PoE.
>
> Then, there's RF blocking wallpaper:
> <http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/ss_tes_atc_adv_mat_stealthy.html>
> Sigh.

Don't know what type exactly, but the premade tinted ones on many of the new
office buildings nowadays (not a film, but something in the glass to
minimize sun fade, and the windows don't even open) usually block radio
signals, just noticed a few years back, was in the dentists office, and my
pda only saw one ap, but when I went outside to smoke, it saw 38! For the
last few years i've been doing the same sort of thing at other offices, and
it seems that in many of the newer buildings, get very limited signal
inside, walk outside and there are lots... not scientific at all, just fired
a neuron when the op talked about about a very poor signal at 120 feet thru
the glass with a directional USB device... Doesn't seem to happen with older
office buildings that have the older opening windows...

Generically, I wonder what effect that sort of glass would have tying to do
a wireless link between buildings thru the windows....

Peter Pan wrote:
<snip>

Have a q that I can't find a US firm that supplies it (only a uk firm that
won't ship to the us), basically instead of radio, it is a laserlink system,
much faster than wifi, (does gigabit ethernet ttp://www.wirelessit.co.uk/)
and good for off the shelf up to 5kilometers...

At any rate, got me thinking, I have a USB LED keyboard light, and can
jumper that to my laser pointer for power, so why not do a USB
ethernet/laser link? (no clue on how to receive it cheaply tho).... Seems
like it would be pretty cool, and if can be made cheaply, would solve a
whole lot of problems.... I have seen fiber optic stuff for networks, so it
must be feasible to convert network to laser and back, but why not do it
without the fiber optic cable?

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:48:35 -0500, "Peter Pan"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Have a q that I can't find a US firm that supplies it (only a uk firm that
>won't ship to the us), basically instead of radio, it is a laserlink system,
>much faster than wifi, (does gigabit ethernet ttp://www.wirelessit.co.uk/)
>and good for off the shelf up to 5kilometers...

That's FSO (free space optical). I've used (and built) a few of
those. If you think wi-fi is weird and marginal, wait until you try
FSO. Beam spreading, speckle, dust dispersion, fog absorption, beam
wandering, insect obstruction, light pollution, sun overload, etc.
Also, don't ask the price:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Space_Optics>
<http://www.freespaceoptic.com>
<http://www.freespaceoptics.org/freespaceoptics/default.cfm>

I've used hardware by PlainTree:
<http://www.plaintree.com>
I wanted to use Canon, but the prices were outrageous:
<http://www.usa.canon.com/html/industrial_canobeam/canobeam/index.html>

There are two basic types, LED and laser. LED is cheaper, laser goes
farther. Speeds are about the same.

>At any rate, got me thinking, I have a USB LED keyboard light, and can
>jumper that to my laser pointer for power, so why not do a USB
>ethernet/laser link? (no clue on how to receive it cheaply tho).... Seems
>like it would be pretty cool, and if can be made cheaply, would solve a
>whole lot of problems.... I have seen fiber optic stuff for networks, so it
>must be feasible to convert network to laser and back, but why not do it
>without the fiber optic cable?

Well, there's a big difference between keying a cheap laser on and
off, and shoving 100Mbits/sec through an optical link. Much of the
magic is in the optics. The rest is in the modulation methods, which
tend toward the exotic.

It is possible to take optical Ethernet fiber bridge, and replace the
two interconnecting fiber optic cables, with a pair of lenses. I used
binoculars. I only needed about 100ft range so I assumed it was a no
brainer. (It wasn't). Keeping the focus stable and accurate to the
emitter/detector is difficult. I built a pair using binoculars, which
worked just fine, but took considerable machine work and subsequent
swearing during the alignment. Have a visible high power LED or green
laser available for alignment. The swearing resumed after the first
rain, when moisture condensed inside the binoculars and rotted
everything.

Here's a do-it-thyself project that does this if you wanna play:
<http://ronja.twibright.com>


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> That's FSO (free space optical). I've used (and built) a few of

I was thinking of Datapoint LightLink. Late 70's, early 80's, Arcnet at
2.5Mbps over about a mile... Union76, I think, had them all over their
campus in Houston.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:35:04 +0000 (UTC), (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> That's FSO (free space optical). I've used (and built) a few of
>
>I was thinking of Datapoint LightLink. Late 70's, early 80's, Arcnet at
>2.5Mbps over about a mile... Union76, I think, had them all over their
>campus in Houston.

Argh. LightLink was about 1980. Not much on the web about it.

In about 1993, I had to throw together a wireless link between the
local hospital and the cheaper offices across the freeway. I wanted
to use Pre-802.11 900MHz wireless, but the hospital declared it a
"radiation hazard" and didn't want it anywhere near the patients. So,
I went with optical.

The system consisted of two pairs of 10" dia plastic Fresnel lenses
and IR emitter/detector pairs. The spot size was about 8ft wide at
about 1000ft range (0.5 degrees). The problem was that every morning,
during the start of rush hour, the link would go down. I eventually
got an IR viewer going and discovered that the spot was moving about a
foot and becoming very smeared when it was failing. That corresponded
to when the beam was shooting through the turbulence created by the
rising warm freeway traffic air and the cold morning air. I never
really solved the problem, but reduced it enough so that nobody
noticed. FSO is soooooooo much fun.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 (E-Mail Removed)
# http://802.11junk.com (E-Mail Removed)
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS