Impact of WEP on connectivity

Hi,

I have an 802.11b AP (unknown make) and a PC with a Netgear MA311 PCI
card installed a few rooms away. With WEP turned off (but MAC
filtering enabled) it works good enough, signal strength is about 65%
and link quality about 45%.

However, if I enable WEP it no longer works - or at best
intermittently if I am lucky (I have of course double-checked the
key). This happens with both 64 and 128 bit encryption.

Since the signal is not great could enabling WEP introduce just enough
of an overhead that, coupled with the weakish signal results in
timeouts or some other connection failure?

If I cant use WEP just how safe is MAC filtering? (I know MAC can be
spoofed). I am not really that concerned about people intercepting
packets of data but am worried about unauthorized use of my
bandwidth. With MAC filtering enabled and SSID broadcasting off, can
would be hackers you still detect my AP?

thanks for any info guys,

Gav :-D

You don't say how it fails. Does it never connect at all?

If it sometimes connects and moves IP traffic in both directions, then you
have it configured correctly. It needs to be configured correctly in both
directions - the keylists on the router and the client need to be identical
and in identical order.

Let's assume you have it configured correctly. Some older 802.11b equipment
takes a performance hit when using WEP, because on older gear the encryption
is done on the host CPU and not on the adapter. If your client host is
underpowered, or running too many tasks, the overhead from WEP could push it
over the edge.

If this is what is happening, then a marginal signal probably would make it
worse, because data loss due to frame errors might be compounded by frame
loss due to queue overruns or underruns.

You can test this by moving the router right next to the client. If you
still get intermittent connectivity with WEP on, then signal strength is not
really the issue, but WEP cpu requirements might be. If performance
improves, then you need improve your signal quality.

If you're worried about someone hijacking your ISP service, MAC filtering
won't really help much at all . An intruder only has to monitor your network
for a few minutes to find out what your MAC addresses are, then come back
later when you're not using the net and spoof one of them. WEP can certainly
be cracked, but they have to hang around a lot longer to do it. And if you
change your keys frequently, an intruder is likely to look for one of the
hundreds of less-protected targets out there.


"Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Hi,
>
> I have an 802.11b AP (unknown make) and a PC with a Netgear MA311 PCI
> card installed a few rooms away. With WEP turned off (but MAC
> filtering enabled) it works good enough, signal strength is about 65%
> and link quality about 45%.
>
> However, if I enable WEP it no longer works - or at best
> intermittently if I am lucky (I have of course double-checked the
> key). This happens with both 64 and 128 bit encryption.
>
> Since the signal is not great could enabling WEP introduce just enough
> of an overhead that, coupled with the weakish signal results in
> timeouts or some other connection failure?
>
> If I cant use WEP just how safe is MAC filtering? (I know MAC can be
> spoofed). I am not really that concerned about people intercepting
> packets of data but am worried about unauthorized use of my
> bandwidth. With MAC filtering enabled and SSID broadcasting off, can
> would be hackers you still detect my AP?
>
> thanks for any info guys,
>
> Gav :-D

Hi,

Thanks for your response.
It did connect briefly, in fact I was able to browse a few web pages
but then it would cease to function. The PCI card is on a windows 98
client, after the connection failed I tried to ping the Access Point
but could not - I could ping it however with WEP off. Excuse my
ignorance of wifi but if I am in range of an AP and have a signal but
DO NOT have the right WEP key, would I still be able to ping the AP?

If this is the case then this all must be due to a weak signal, as I
mentioned my AP is of unknown origin however, it does seem to have
some sort of extra socket on the back (aside from the two antenna) - I
wonder if I might be able to get some generic large antenna to boost
the signal range?

thanks!

Gav


"gary" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<t5rDb.2883$(E-Mail Removed) m>...
> You don't say how it fails. Does it never connect at all?
>
> If it sometimes connects and moves IP traffic in both directions, then you
> have it configured correctly. It needs to be configured correctly in both
> directions - the keylists on the router and the client need to be identical
> and in identical order.
>
> Let's assume you have it configured correctly. Some older 802.11b equipment
> takes a performance hit when using WEP, because on older gear the encryption
> is done on the host CPU and not on the adapter. If your client host is
> underpowered, or running too many tasks, the overhead from WEP could push it
> over the edge.
>
> If this is what is happening, then a marginal signal probably would make it
> worse, because data loss due to frame errors might be compounded by frame
> loss due to queue overruns or underruns.
>
> You can test this by moving the router right next to the client. If you
> still get intermittent connectivity with WEP on, then signal strength is not
> really the issue, but WEP cpu requirements might be. If performance
> improves, then you need improve your signal quality.
>
> If you're worried about someone hijacking your ISP service, MAC filtering
> won't really help much at all . An intruder only has to monitor your network
> for a few minutes to find out what your MAC addresses are, then come back
> later when you're not using the net and spoof one of them. WEP can certainly
> be cracked, but they have to hang around a lot longer to do it. And if you
> change your keys frequently, an intruder is likely to look for one of the
> hundreds of less-protected targets out there.
>
>
> "Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have an 802.11b AP (unknown make) and a PC with a Netgear MA311 PCI
> > card installed a few rooms away. With WEP turned off (but MAC
> > filtering enabled) it works good enough, signal strength is about 65%
> > and link quality about 45%.
> >
> > However, if I enable WEP it no longer works - or at best
> > intermittently if I am lucky (I have of course double-checked the
> > key). This happens with both 64 and 128 bit encryption.
> >
> > Since the signal is not great could enabling WEP introduce just enough
> > of an overhead that, coupled with the weakish signal results in
> > timeouts or some other connection failure?
> >
> > If I cant use WEP just how safe is MAC filtering? (I know MAC can be
> > spoofed). I am not really that concerned about people intercepting
> > packets of data but am worried about unauthorized use of my
> > bandwidth. With MAC filtering enabled and SSID broadcasting off, can
> > would be hackers you still detect my AP?
> >
> > thanks for any info guys,
> >
> > Gav :-D

"Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for your response.
> It did connect briefly, in fact I was able to browse a few web pages
> but then it would cease to function. The PCI card is on a windows 98
> client, after the connection failed I tried to ping the Access Point
> but could not - I could ping it however with WEP off. Excuse my
> ignorance of wifi but if I am in range of an AP and have a signal but
> DO NOT have the right WEP key, would I still be able to ping the AP?

Pings are WEP-encrypted. If your connection is working with WEP up to a
point, and then fails, I woudn't expect ping to work. It does sound like a
signal strength problem exacerbated by WEP processing requirements, but it
still could be purely a WEP issue. I have no idea how your no-name AP works.
Do you have a manual? Does it try to do something "clever" like
automatically switch to a new key in its list? Are you absolutely sure that
the keylists in the AP and the client are identical and in identical order?
I would test by putting the router and the PC near one another to get a
strong signal. If you still have WEP problems, then signal strength is not a
factor.

>
> If this is the case then this all must be due to a weak signal, as I
> mentioned my AP is of unknown origin however, it does seem to have
> some sort of extra socket on the back (aside from the two antenna) - I
> wonder if I might be able to get some generic large antenna to boost
> the signal range?

There are lots of threads on this list discussing external antennas, corner
reflectors, and other solutions to strengthen your signal. I've never tried
any of these, so I leave recommendations to others. You might check the
Google archive for this list at

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ternet&gidx=20


>
> thanks!
>
> Gav
>
>
> "gary" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:<t5rDb.2883$(E-Mail Removed) m>...
> > You don't say how it fails. Does it never connect at all?
> >
> > If it sometimes connects and moves IP traffic in both directions, then
you
> > have it configured correctly. It needs to be configured correctly in
both
> > directions - the keylists on the router and the client need to be
identical
> > and in identical order.
> >
> > Let's assume you have it configured correctly. Some older 802.11b
equipment
> > takes a performance hit when using WEP, because on older gear the
encryption
> > is done on the host CPU and not on the adapter. If your client host is
> > underpowered, or running too many tasks, the overhead from WEP could
push it
> > over the edge.
> >
> > If this is what is happening, then a marginal signal probably would make
it
> > worse, because data loss due to frame errors might be compounded by
frame
> > loss due to queue overruns or underruns.
> >
> > You can test this by moving the router right next to the client. If you
> > still get intermittent connectivity with WEP on, then signal strength is
not
> > really the issue, but WEP cpu requirements might be. If performance
> > improves, then you need improve your signal quality.
> >
> > If you're worried about someone hijacking your ISP service, MAC
filtering
> > won't really help much at all . An intruder only has to monitor your
network
> > for a few minutes to find out what your MAC addresses are, then come
back
> > later when you're not using the net and spoof one of them. WEP can
certainly
> > be cracked, but they have to hang around a lot longer to do it. And if
you
> > change your keys frequently, an intruder is likely to look for one of
the
> > hundreds of less-protected targets out there.
> >
> >
> > "Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have an 802.11b AP (unknown make) and a PC with a Netgear MA311 PCI
> > > card installed a few rooms away. With WEP turned off (but MAC
> > > filtering enabled) it works good enough, signal strength is about 65%
> > > and link quality about 45%.
> > >
> > > However, if I enable WEP it no longer works - or at best
> > > intermittently if I am lucky (I have of course double-checked the
> > > key). This happens with both 64 and 128 bit encryption.
> > >
> > > Since the signal is not great could enabling WEP introduce just enough
> > > of an overhead that, coupled with the weakish signal results in
> > > timeouts or some other connection failure?
> > >
> > > If I cant use WEP just how safe is MAC filtering? (I know MAC can be
> > > spoofed). I am not really that concerned about people intercepting
> > > packets of data but am worried about unauthorized use of my
> > > bandwidth. With MAC filtering enabled and SSID broadcasting off, can
> > > would be hackers you still detect my AP?
> > >
> > > thanks for any info guys,
> > >
> > > Gav :-D

---> My reply to what gary wrote 12/16/2003 1:58:03 PM

One thing you may want to try, turn the Authentication off on both your card
and the AP (Set it for open). This not only improves security (so they say)
but I have found that if you are trying to use WEP on two (the AP and card)
that are not the same manufacturer it helps.

Worth a try

----------------------- Original Message ------------------------------



"Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for your response.
> It did connect briefly, in fact I was able to browse a few web pages
> but then it would cease to function. The PCI card is on a windows 98
> client, after the connection failed I tried to ping the Access Point
> but could not - I could ping it however with WEP off. Excuse my
> ignorance of wifi but if I am in range of an AP and have a signal but
> DO NOT have the right WEP key, would I still be able to ping the AP?

Pings are WEP-encrypted. If your connection is working with WEP up to a
point, and then fails, I woudn't expect ping to work. It does sound like a
signal strength problem exacerbated by WEP processing requirements, but it
still could be purely a WEP issue. I have no idea how your no-name AP works.
Do you have a manual? Does it try to do something "clever" like
automatically switch to a new key in its list? Are you absolutely sure that
the keylists in the AP and the client are identical and in identical order?
I would test by putting the router and the PC near one another to get a
strong signal. If you still have WEP problems, then signal strength is not a
factor.

>
> If this is the case then this all must be due to a weak signal, as I
> mentioned my AP is of unknown origin however, it does seem to have
> some sort of extra socket on the back (aside from the two antenna) - I
> wonder if I might be able to get some generic large antenna to boost
> the signal range?

There are lots of threads on this list discussing external antennas, corner
reflectors, and other solutions to strengthen your signal. I've never tried
any of these, so I leave recommendations to others. You might check the
Google archive for this list at

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ternet&gidx=20


>
> thanks!
>
> Gav
>
>
> "gary" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:<t5rDb.2883$(E-Mail Removed) m>...
> > You don't say how it fails. Does it never connect at all?
> >
> > If it sometimes connects and moves IP traffic in both directions, then
you
> > have it configured correctly. It needs to be configured correctly in
both
> > directions - the keylists on the router and the client need to be
identical
> > and in identical order.
> >
> > Let's assume you have it configured correctly. Some older 802.11b
equipment
> > takes a performance hit when using WEP, because on older gear the
encryption
> > is done on the host CPU and not on the adapter. If your client host is
> > underpowered, or running too many tasks, the overhead from WEP could
push it
> > over the edge.
> >
> > If this is what is happening, then a marginal signal probably would make
it
> > worse, because data loss due to frame errors might be compounded by
frame
> > loss due to queue overruns or underruns.
> >
> > You can test this by moving the router right next to the client. If you
> > still get intermittent connectivity with WEP on, then signal strength is
not
> > really the issue, but WEP cpu requirements might be. If performance
> > improves, then you need improve your signal quality.
> >
> > If you're worried about someone hijacking your ISP service, MAC
filtering
> > won't really help much at all . An intruder only has to monitor your
network
> > for a few minutes to find out what your MAC addresses are, then come
back
> > later when you're not using the net and spoof one of them. WEP can
certainly
> > be cracked, but they have to hang around a lot longer to do it. And if
you
> > change your keys frequently, an intruder is likely to look for one of
the
> > hundreds of less-protected targets out there.
> >
> >
> > "Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have an 802.11b AP (unknown make) and a PC with a Netgear MA311 PCI
> > > card installed a few rooms away. With WEP turned off (but MAC
> > > filtering enabled) it works good enough, signal strength is about 65%
> > > and link quality about 45%.
> > >
> > > However, if I enable WEP it no longer works - or at best
> > > intermittently if I am lucky (I have of course double-checked the
> > > key). This happens with both 64 and 128 bit encryption.
> > >
> > > Since the signal is not great could enabling WEP introduce just enough
> > > of an overhead that, coupled with the weakish signal results in
> > > timeouts or some other connection failure?
> > >
> > > If I cant use WEP just how safe is MAC filtering? (I know MAC can be
> > > spoofed). I am not really that concerned about people intercepting
> > > packets of data but am worried about unauthorized use of my
> > > bandwidth. With MAC filtering enabled and SSID broadcasting off, can
> > > would be hackers you still detect my AP?
> > >
> > > thanks for any info guys,
> > >
> > > Gav :-D



[Some portions of this message may have been removed]

--------------------- Original Message Ends ------------------------

---> My reply to what RN wrote 12/16/2003 2:32:46 PM

I am sorry, you set it to open in your AP not your card


----------------------- Original Message ------------------------------


---> My reply to what gary wrote 12/16/2003 1:58:03 PM

One thing you may want to try, turn the Authentication off on both your card
and the AP (Set it for open). This not only improves security (so they say)
but I have found that if you are trying to use WEP on two (the AP and card)
that are not the same manufacturer it helps.

Worth a try

----------------------- Original Message ------------------------------



"Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for your response.
> It did connect briefly, in fact I was able to browse a few web pages
> but then it would cease to function. The PCI card is on a windows 98
> client, after the connection failed I tried to ping the Access Point
> but could not - I could ping it however with WEP off. Excuse my
> ignorance of wifi but if I am in range of an AP and have a signal but
> DO NOT have the right WEP key, would I still be able to ping the AP?

Pings are WEP-encrypted. If your connection is working with WEP up to a
point, and then fails, I woudn't expect ping to work. It does sound like a
signal strength problem exacerbated by WEP processing requirements, but it
still could be purely a WEP issue. I have no idea how your no-name AP works.
Do you have a manual? Does it try to do something "clever" like
automatically switch to a new key in its list? Are you absolutely sure that
the keylists in the AP and the client are identical and in identical order?
I would test by putting the router and the PC near one another to get a
strong signal. If you still have WEP problems, then signal strength is not a
factor.

>
> If this is the case then this all must be due to a weak signal, as I
> mentioned my AP is of unknown origin however, it does seem to have
> some sort of extra socket on the back (aside from the two antenna) - I
> wonder if I might be able to get some generic large antenna to boost
> the signal range?

There are lots of threads on this list discussing external antennas, corner
reflectors, and other solutions to strengthen your signal. I've never tried
any of these, so I leave recommendations to others. You might check the
Google archive for this list at

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ternet&gidx=20


>
> thanks!
>
> Gav
>
>
> "gary" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:<t5rDb.2883$(E-Mail Removed) m>...
> > You don't say how it fails. Does it never connect at all?
> >
> > If it sometimes connects and moves IP traffic in both directions, then
you
> > have it configured correctly. It needs to be configured correctly in
both
> > directions - the keylists on the router and the client need to be
identical
> > and in identical order.
> >
> > Let's assume you have it configured correctly. Some older 802.11b
equipment
> > takes a performance hit when using WEP, because on older gear the
encryption
> > is done on the host CPU and not on the adapter. If your client host is
> > underpowered, or running too many tasks, the overhead from WEP could
push it
> > over the edge.
> >
> > If this is what is happening, then a marginal signal probably would make
it
> > worse, because data loss due to frame errors might be compounded by
frame
> > loss due to queue overruns or underruns.
> >
> > You can test this by moving the router right next to the client. If you
> > still get intermittent connectivity with WEP on, then signal strength is
not
> > really the issue, but WEP cpu requirements might be. If performance
> > improves, then you need improve your signal quality.
> >
> > If you're worried about someone hijacking your ISP service, MAC
filtering
> > won't really help much at all . An intruder only has to monitor your
network
> > for a few minutes to find out what your MAC addresses are, then come
back
> > later when you're not using the net and spoof one of them. WEP can
certainly
> > be cracked, but they have to hang around a lot longer to do it. And if
you
> > change your keys frequently, an intruder is likely to look for one of
the
> > hundreds of less-protected targets out there.
> >
> >
> > "Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have an 802.11b AP (unknown make) and a PC with a Netgear MA311 PCI
> > > card installed a few rooms away. With WEP turned off (but MAC
> > > filtering enabled) it works good enough, signal strength is about 65%
> > > and link quality about 45%.
> > >
> > > However, if I enable WEP it no longer works - or at best
> > > intermittently if I am lucky (I have of course double-checked the
> > > key). This happens with both 64 and 128 bit encryption.
> > >
> > > Since the signal is not great could enabling WEP introduce just enough
> > > of an overhead that, coupled with the weakish signal results in
> > > timeouts or some other connection failure?
> > >
> > > If I cant use WEP just how safe is MAC filtering? (I know MAC can be
> > > spoofed). I am not really that concerned about people intercepting
> > > packets of data but am worried about unauthorized use of my
> > > bandwidth. With MAC filtering enabled and SSID broadcasting off, can
> > > would be hackers you still detect my AP?
> > >
> > > thanks for any info guys,
> > >
> > > Gav :-D



[Some portions of this message may have been removed]

--------------------- Original Message Ends ------------------------



[Some portions of this message may have been removed]

--------------------- Original Message Ends ------------------------

This might help if you can't connect with WEP at all. But if you have a
connection that works, and then just stops, you already got past the
association phase.l

"RN" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> ---> My reply to what RN wrote 12/16/2003 2:32:46 PM
>
> I am sorry, you set it to open in your AP not your card
>
>
> ----------------------- Original Message ------------------------------
>
>
> ---> My reply to what gary wrote 12/16/2003 1:58:03 PM
>
> One thing you may want to try, turn the Authentication off on both your
card
> and the AP (Set it for open). This not only improves security (so they
say)
> but I have found that if you are trying to use WEP on two (the AP and
card)
> that are not the same manufacturer it helps.
>
> Worth a try
>
> ----------------------- Original Message ------------------------------
>
>
>
> "Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for your response.
> > It did connect briefly, in fact I was able to browse a few web pages
> > but then it would cease to function. The PCI card is on a windows 98
> > client, after the connection failed I tried to ping the Access Point
> > but could not - I could ping it however with WEP off. Excuse my
> > ignorance of wifi but if I am in range of an AP and have a signal but
> > DO NOT have the right WEP key, would I still be able to ping the AP?
>
> Pings are WEP-encrypted. If your connection is working with WEP up to a
> point, and then fails, I woudn't expect ping to work. It does sound like a
> signal strength problem exacerbated by WEP processing requirements, but it
> still could be purely a WEP issue. I have no idea how your no-name AP
works.
> Do you have a manual? Does it try to do something "clever" like
> automatically switch to a new key in its list? Are you absolutely sure
that
> the keylists in the AP and the client are identical and in identical
order?
> I would test by putting the router and the PC near one another to get a
> strong signal. If you still have WEP problems, then signal strength is not
a
> factor.
>
> >
> > If this is the case then this all must be due to a weak signal, as I
> > mentioned my AP is of unknown origin however, it does seem to have
> > some sort of extra socket on the back (aside from the two antenna) - I
> > wonder if I might be able to get some generic large antenna to boost
> > the signal range?
>
> There are lots of threads on this list discussing external antennas,
corner
> reflectors, and other solutions to strengthen your signal. I've never
tried
> any of these, so I leave recommendations to others. You might check the
> Google archive for this list at
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ternet&gidx=20
>
>
> >
> > thanks!
> >
> > Gav
> >
> >
> > "gary" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:<t5rDb.2883$(E-Mail Removed) m>...
> > > You don't say how it fails. Does it never connect at all?
> > >
> > > If it sometimes connects and moves IP traffic in both directions, then
> you
> > > have it configured correctly. It needs to be configured correctly in
> both
> > > directions - the keylists on the router and the client need to be
> identical
> > > and in identical order.
> > >
> > > Let's assume you have it configured correctly. Some older 802.11b
> equipment
> > > takes a performance hit when using WEP, because on older gear the
> encryption
> > > is done on the host CPU and not on the adapter. If your client host is
> > > underpowered, or running too many tasks, the overhead from WEP could
> push it
> > > over the edge.
> > >
> > > If this is what is happening, then a marginal signal probably would
make
> it
> > > worse, because data loss due to frame errors might be compounded by
> frame
> > > loss due to queue overruns or underruns.
> > >
> > > You can test this by moving the router right next to the client. If
you
> > > still get intermittent connectivity with WEP on, then signal strength
is
> not
> > > really the issue, but WEP cpu requirements might be. If performance
> > > improves, then you need improve your signal quality.
> > >
> > > If you're worried about someone hijacking your ISP service, MAC
> filtering
> > > won't really help much at all . An intruder only has to monitor your
> network
> > > for a few minutes to find out what your MAC addresses are, then come
> back
> > > later when you're not using the net and spoof one of them. WEP can
> certainly
> > > be cracked, but they have to hang around a lot longer to do it. And if
> you
> > > change your keys frequently, an intruder is likely to look for one of
> the
> > > hundreds of less-protected targets out there.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I have an 802.11b AP (unknown make) and a PC with a Netgear MA311
PCI
> > > > card installed a few rooms away. With WEP turned off (but MAC
> > > > filtering enabled) it works good enough, signal strength is about
65%
> > > > and link quality about 45%.
> > > >
> > > > However, if I enable WEP it no longer works - or at best
> > > > intermittently if I am lucky (I have of course double-checked the
> > > > key). This happens with both 64 and 128 bit encryption.
> > > >
> > > > Since the signal is not great could enabling WEP introduce just
enough
> > > > of an overhead that, coupled with the weakish signal results in
> > > > timeouts or some other connection failure?
> > > >
> > > > If I cant use WEP just how safe is MAC filtering? (I know MAC can be
> > > > spoofed). I am not really that concerned about people intercepting
> > > > packets of data but am worried about unauthorized use of my
> > > > bandwidth. With MAC filtering enabled and SSID broadcasting off,
can
> > > > would be hackers you still detect my AP?
> > > >
> > > > thanks for any info guys,
> > > >
> > > > Gav :-D
>
>
>
> [Some portions of this message may have been removed]
>
> --------------------- Original Message Ends ------------------------
>
>
>
> [Some portions of this message may have been removed]
>
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>
>

Guys,

OK After reading your advice I thought "ok I will check the keys one
more time!" (about the 20th time) and guess what I FINALLY noticed -
in the AP config there are 4 keys you can supply and underneath those
textboxes is a dropdown box that lets you choose the key you wish to
use (1 - 4). In this Dropdown box is also the option "none".
Bizarrely you can select to enable WEP but it does not force you to
choose a key so in a display of utter incompetence I was inputting a
key and then leaving the chosen key to use set to "none"!!

I can only appolgise for being such an idiot! However, still lots of
good info so I guess it was not a total waste of time, I do feel like
I have learned something (aside from READING THE OPTIONS more
carefully!).

Thanks again for all the help :-)

Gav




"gary" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:<O0NDb.1$(E-Mail Removed) >...
> This might help if you can't connect with WEP at all. But if you have a
> connection that works, and then just stops, you already got past the
> association phase.l
>
> "RN" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > ---> My reply to what RN wrote 12/16/2003 2:32:46 PM
> >
> > I am sorry, you set it to open in your AP not your card
> >
> >
> > ----------------------- Original Message ------------------------------
> >
> >
> > ---> My reply to what gary wrote 12/16/2003 1:58:03 PM
> >
> > One thing you may want to try, turn the Authentication off on both your
> card
> > and the AP (Set it for open). This not only improves security (so they
> say)
> > but I have found that if you are trying to use WEP on two (the AP and
> card)
> > that are not the same manufacturer it helps.
> >
> > Worth a try
> >
> > ----------------------- Original Message ------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > "Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your response.
> > > It did connect briefly, in fact I was able to browse a few web pages
> > > but then it would cease to function. The PCI card is on a windows 98
> > > client, after the connection failed I tried to ping the Access Point
> > > but could not - I could ping it however with WEP off. Excuse my
> > > ignorance of wifi but if I am in range of an AP and have a signal but
> > > DO NOT have the right WEP key, would I still be able to ping the AP?
> >
> > Pings are WEP-encrypted. If your connection is working with WEP up to a
> > point, and then fails, I woudn't expect ping to work. It does sound like a
> > signal strength problem exacerbated by WEP processing requirements, but it
> > still could be purely a WEP issue. I have no idea how your no-name AP
> works.
> > Do you have a manual? Does it try to do something "clever" like
> > automatically switch to a new key in its list? Are you absolutely sure
> that
> > the keylists in the AP and the client are identical and in identical
> order?
> > I would test by putting the router and the PC near one another to get a
> > strong signal. If you still have WEP problems, then signal strength is not
> a
> > factor.
> >
> > >
> > > If this is the case then this all must be due to a weak signal, as I
> > > mentioned my AP is of unknown origin however, it does seem to have
> > > some sort of extra socket on the back (aside from the two antenna) - I
> > > wonder if I might be able to get some generic large antenna to boost
> > > the signal range?
> >
> > There are lots of threads on this list discussing external antennas,
> corner
> > reflectors, and other solutions to strengthen your signal. I've never
> tried
> > any of these, so I leave recommendations to others. You might check the
> > Google archive for this list at
> >
> >
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ternet&gidx=20
> >
> >
> > >
> > > thanks!
> > >
> > > Gav
> > >
> > >
> > > "gary" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:<t5rDb.2883$(E-Mail Removed) m>...
> > > > You don't say how it fails. Does it never connect at all?
> > > >
> > > > If it sometimes connects and moves IP traffic in both directions, then
> you
> > > > have it configured correctly. It needs to be configured correctly in
> both
> > > > directions - the keylists on the router and the client need to be
> identical
> > > > and in identical order.
> > > >
> > > > Let's assume you have it configured correctly. Some older 802.11b
> equipment
> > > > takes a performance hit when using WEP, because on older gear the
> encryption
> > > > is done on the host CPU and not on the adapter. If your client host is
> > > > underpowered, or running too many tasks, the overhead from WEP could
> push it
> > > > over the edge.
> > > >
> > > > If this is what is happening, then a marginal signal probably would
> make
> it
> > > > worse, because data loss due to frame errors might be compounded by
> frame
> > > > loss due to queue overruns or underruns.
> > > >
> > > > You can test this by moving the router right next to the client. If
> you
> > > > still get intermittent connectivity with WEP on, then signal strength
> is
> not
> > > > really the issue, but WEP cpu requirements might be. If performance
> > > > improves, then you need improve your signal quality.
> > > >
> > > > If you're worried about someone hijacking your ISP service, MAC
> filtering
> > > > won't really help much at all . An intruder only has to monitor your
> network
> > > > for a few minutes to find out what your MAC addresses are, then come
> back
> > > > later when you're not using the net and spoof one of them. WEP can
> certainly
> > > > be cracked, but they have to hang around a lot longer to do it. And if
> you
> > > > change your keys frequently, an intruder is likely to look for one of
> the
> > > > hundreds of less-protected targets out there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Gav" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:(E-Mail Removed) om...
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have an 802.11b AP (unknown make) and a PC with a Netgear MA311
> PCI
> > > > > card installed a few rooms away. With WEP turned off (but MAC
> > > > > filtering enabled) it works good enough, signal strength is about
> 65%
> > > > > and link quality about 45%.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, if I enable WEP it no longer works - or at best
> > > > > intermittently if I am lucky (I have of course double-checked the
> > > > > key). This happens with both 64 and 128 bit encryption.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since the signal is not great could enabling WEP introduce just
> enough
> > > > > of an overhead that, coupled with the weakish signal results in
> > > > > timeouts or some other connection failure?
> > > > >
> > > > > If I cant use WEP just how safe is MAC filtering? (I know MAC can be
> > > > > spoofed). I am not really that concerned about people intercepting
> > > > > packets of data but am worried about unauthorized use of my
> > > > > bandwidth. With MAC filtering enabled and SSID broadcasting off,
> can
> > > > > would be hackers you still detect my AP?
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks for any info guys,
> > > > >
> > > > > Gav :-D
> >
> >
> >
> > [Some portions of this message may have been removed]
> >
> > --------------------- Original Message Ends ------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > [Some portions of this message may have been removed]
> >
> > --------------------- Original Message Ends ------------------------
> >
> >