illicit use of others' 802.11x

Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x network
without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not illegal, it should
be. Have there been arrests on this matter in Florida? If so, where can I
read more about them?

--
-eben (E-Mail Removed)m home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken

(E-Mail Removed)nge (Hactar) wrote in
news:bs5j6o$jqe$(E-Mail Removed):

> Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x
> network without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not
> illegal, it should be. Have there been arrests on this matter in
> Florida? If so, where can I read more about them?

If the neighbor doesn't secure his network, I'm not sure it would be
wrong of the relative to tap into his bandwidth. Your relative didn't
hack into his network, did he? Maybe it's a good lesson for the
neighbor!

Adam

Entity Hactar spoke thus:

> Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x network
> without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not illegal, it should
> be.
Not sure the word "illicit" is appropriate in this case.

I'm running an open AP here in New Mexico and anyone is invited to use it.
If I begin to have problems I'll tighten it down. Many others in town have
the same open policy.

-- Gnarlie
Gnarlodious € iTunes € Music (Page generated by Applescript)
http://www.Gnarlodious.com/iTunes.html

In article <bs5j6o$jqe$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Hactar <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
:Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x network
:without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not illegal, it should
:be. Have there been arrests on this matter in Florida? If so, where can I
:read more about them?

802.11x is a security-related wireless standard. You probably
mean 802.11b .

If your neighbour ever uses the wireless equipment to contact
sites out of state, then the equipment falls under the category
of "federal interest systems" for the purposes of the
US Computer Fraud And Abuse Statutes, 1030(a)(5), which prohibits
accessing the equipment without permission or exceeding authorized
permission.

If your neigbour happens to only use the wireless equipment to
contact sites (including via email) that are in one state, then
the US Federal goverment does not have jurisdiction, and you would
need to know more about the relevant Florida laws.
--
millihamlet: the average coherency of prose created by a single monkey
typing randomly on a keyboard. Usenet postings may be rated in mHl.
-- Walter Roberson

Most cable/DSL contracts have Terms of Service and Acceptable Usage
agreements that spell out the obligations. The person hacking in is
committing theft of service, which is a criminal act, and the person being
hacked may be fined for the acts of the hacker, in addition to having
service terminated - even if they have no knowledge. It's the responsibility
of the customer to take "reasonable" security precautions, and if they
don't, they're partly liable for the consequences.

"Hactar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bs5j6o$jqe$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x network
> without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not illegal, it should
> be. Have there been arrests on this matter in Florida? If so, where can
I
> read more about them?
>
> --
> -eben (E-Mail Removed)m home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar
>
> Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
> hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken

In article <bs5m47$i20$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Walter Roberson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <bs5j6o$jqe$(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Hactar <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> :Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x network
> :without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not illegal, it should
> :be. Have there been arrests on this matter in Florida? If so, where can I
> :read more about them?
>
> 802.11x is a security-related wireless standard. You probably
> mean 802.11b .

By "x" I meant "*", or more accurately, "?".

> If your neighbour ever uses the wireless equipment to contact
> sites out of state, then the equipment falls under the category
> of "federal interest systems" for the purposes of the
> US Computer Fraud And Abuse Statutes, 1030(a)(5), which prohibits
> accessing the equipment without permission or exceeding authorized
> permission.

And any web server that is out of Florida qualifies, yes?

--
-eben (E-Mail Removed)m home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar
CAPRICORN: The stars say you're an exciting and wonderful person...
but you know they're lying. If I were you, I'd lock my doors and
windows and never never never never leave my house again. -- Weird Al

In article <(E-Mail Removed) >, Adam
Leinss wrote:
> > Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x
> > network without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not
> > illegal, it should be. Have there been arrests on this matter in
> > Florida? If so, where can I read more about them?
>
> If the neighbor doesn't secure his network, I'm not sure it would be
> wrong of the relative to tap into his bandwidth.
>
What if the neighbour didn't secure his front door? Do you think it
would be acceptable to "tap into" the contents of his house?

Rod.

it just plain and simple theft isnt it? i mean if you leave your door unlock
doesnt mean that you "allow" people to come in and take what they want.

"Hactar" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:bs5j6o$jqe$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x network
> without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not illegal, it should
> be. Have there been arrests on this matter in Florida? If so, where can
I
> read more about them?
>
> --
> -eben (E-Mail Removed)m home.tampabay.rr.com/hactar
>
> Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,
> hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. -- H.L. Mencken

On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:49:58 GMT, Roderick Stewart <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed) >, Adam
> Leinss wrote:
>> > Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x
>> > network without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not
>> > illegal, it should be. Have there been arrests on this matter in
>> > Florida? If so, where can I read more about them?
>>
>> If the neighbor doesn't secure his network, I'm not sure it would be
>> wrong of the relative to tap into his bandwidth.
>>
> What if the neighbour didn't secure his front door? Do you think it
> would be acceptable to "tap into" the contents of his house?

I don't think this analogy really applies. Try:

"What if your neighbor started throwing his valuables over the fence
into your yard? Would it then be OK to 'tap into' the contents of your
own property?"

Unless the neighbor takes suitable precautions to limit propogation of
his signal or otherwise secure his network, he's giving away access to
it and the resources it offers . . . it's like laying out a welcome mat.
I don't know that asking permission is even relevant.

--
- Jeff Drumm

"Jeff Drumm" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:StGdnetpEsjOmXqiRVn-(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:49:58 GMT, Roderick Stewart <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > In article <(E-Mail Removed) >, Adam
> > Leinss wrote:
> >> > Hi. One of my relatives believes "borrowing" a neighbor's 802.11x
> >> > network without his knowledge is OK. I think that if it's not
> >> > illegal, it should be. Have there been arrests on this matter in
> >> > Florida? If so, where can I read more about them?
> >>
> >> If the neighbor doesn't secure his network, I'm not sure it would be
> >> wrong of the relative to tap into his bandwidth.
> >>
> > What if the neighbour didn't secure his front door? Do you think it
> > would be acceptable to "tap into" the contents of his house?
>
> I don't think this analogy really applies. Try:
>
> "What if your neighbor started throwing his valuables over the fence
> into your yard? Would it then be OK to 'tap into' the contents of your
> own property?"
>
> Unless the neighbor takes suitable precautions to limit propogation of
> his signal or otherwise secure his network, he's giving away access to
> it and the resources it offers . . . it's like laying out a welcome mat.
> I don't know that asking permission is even relevant.
>

I agree - he is sending unsecured signals into your house.... versus you
going onto his property, and entering his door.

Kinda like him playing his stereo very loud - and you hearing it - versus
you going into his house and listening to his stereo.