Howto get 2 routers to communicate

hello,

I have a USRobotics 9106 ADSL 4 port wireless router and a Linksys WRT54GS in
another house. I'm trying to get the Linksys to access the internet over the
wireless link. But I can't get the 2 routers to communicate.

How do I do this.

Currently I have the ADSL set as 192.168.1.1 and the Linksys as 192.168.2.1 With
the gateway as 192.168.1.1. But I'm not sure how to setup the wireless link?

Any pointers appreciated.

regards,

Guy

routers generally don't talk to each other wirelessly,,, does one have
Client Mode & specs say something about WDS ? Then they might talk but only
the one without Client Mode will be the router.

"Guy Robinson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:d07vka$n8i$(E-Mail Removed)...
> hello,
>
> I have a USRobotics 9106 ADSL 4 port wireless router and a Linksys WRT54GS
> in another house. I'm trying to get the Linksys to access the internet
> over the wireless link. But I can't get the 2 routers to communicate.
>
> How do I do this.
>
> Currently I have the ADSL set as 192.168.1.1 and the Linksys as
> 192.168.2.1 With the gateway as 192.168.1.1. But I'm not sure how to setup
> the wireless link?
>
> Any pointers appreciated.
>
> regards,
>
> Guy

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 10:29:46 +1300, Guy Robinson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I have a USRobotics 9106 ADSL 4 port wireless router and a Linksys WRT54GS in
>another house. I'm trying to get the Linksys to access the internet over the
>wireless link. But I can't get the 2 routers to communicate.
>
>How do I do this.
>
>Currently I have the ADSL set as 192.168.1.1 and the Linksys as 192.168.2.1 With
>the gateway as 192.168.1.1. But I'm not sure how to setup the wireless link?

You probably can't do that. Routers normally don't talk to each
other. The exception are routers that support WDS (wireless
distribution something). The WRT54GS supports WDS using Broadcom idea
of the standard. However, I have no clue about the USR 9106. It's
apparently a European only product:

http://www.usr-emea.com/products/p-b...tures&loc=emea
I can't find anything in the data sheet that mentions WDS. Therefore,
methinks you're out of luck on getting them to talk to each other. As
a general rule, the chipsets and general model numbers of WDS bridges
should be the same.

I'm not sure what you're building, but the fast fix would be to
download and install some alternative firmware in the WRT54GS that
supports the client mode. However, this will limit the WRT54GS router
to only bridging one MAC address. I'm not sure exactly how the router
NAT section works in this mode, so some research will be necessary.




--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# (E-Mail Removed)
# (E-Mail Removed) AE6KS

Thanks for replying.

From http://www.sveasoft.com it look like I can purchase firmware that will
work with the linksys and provide WDS and client mode.

So this would work yeah? The ADSL router doesn't support WDS or client mode by
the looks of it.

regards,

Guy

bumtracks wrote:
> routers generally don't talk to each other wirelessly,,, does one have
> Client Mode & specs say something about WDS ? Then they might talk but only
> the one without Client Mode will be the router.
>
> "Guy Robinson" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:d07vka$n8i$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>hello,
>>
>>I have a USRobotics 9106 ADSL 4 port wireless router and a Linksys WRT54GS
>>in another house. I'm trying to get the Linksys to access the internet
>>over the wireless link. But I can't get the 2 routers to communicate.
>>
>>How do I do this.
>>
>>Currently I have the ADSL set as 192.168.1.1 and the Linksys as
>>192.168.2.1 With the gateway as 192.168.1.1. But I'm not sure how to setup
>>the wireless link?
>>
>>Any pointers appreciated.
>>
>>regards,
>>
>>Guy
>
>
>

hi Jeff,

I've just upgraded the firmware in the USR 9106 and I now have this additional
option:

"""
This page allows you to configure wireless bridge features of the wireless LAN
interface. You can select Wireless Bridge (also known as Wireless Distribution
System) to disable access point functionality. Selecting Access Point enables
access point functionality. Wireless bridge functionality will still be
available and wireless stations will be able to associate to the AP. Selecting
Disabled in Bridge Restrict disables wireless bridge restriction; any wireless
bridge (including the ones listed in Remote Bridges) will be granted access.
Selecting Enabled enables wireless bridge restriction. Only those bridges listed
in Remote Bridges will be granted access.
Click "Apply" to configure the wireless bridge options.
"""

So it looks like I can set the USR to be an AP. Or do I need to configure it as
a bridge? I don't understand the difference.

Do I still need to upgrade the linksys firmware to allow client mode and WDS?

Thanks for your help.

Regards,

Guy


Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 10:29:46 +1300, Guy Robinson
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>I have a USRobotics 9106 ADSL 4 port wireless router and a Linksys WRT54GS in
>>another house. I'm trying to get the Linksys to access the internet over the
>>wireless link. But I can't get the 2 routers to communicate.
>>
>>How do I do this.
>>
>>Currently I have the ADSL set as 192.168.1.1 and the Linksys as 192.168.2.1 With
>>the gateway as 192.168.1.1. But I'm not sure how to setup the wireless link?
>
>
> You probably can't do that. Routers normally don't talk to each
> other. The exception are routers that support WDS (wireless
> distribution something). The WRT54GS supports WDS using Broadcom idea
> of the standard. However, I have no clue about the USR 9106. It's
> apparently a European only product:
>
> http://www.usr-emea.com/products/p-b...tures&loc=emea
> I can't find anything in the data sheet that mentions WDS. Therefore,
> methinks you're out of luck on getting them to talk to each other. As
> a general rule, the chipsets and general model numbers of WDS bridges
> should be the same.
>
> I'm not sure what you're building, but the fast fix would be to
> download and install some alternative firmware in the WRT54GS that
> supports the client mode. However, this will limit the WRT54GS router
> to only bridging one MAC address. I'm not sure exactly how the router
> NAT section works in this mode, so some research will be necessary.
>
>
>
>

Guy Robinson <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Thanks for replying.
>
> From http://www.sveasoft.com it look like I can purchase
>firmware that will work with the linksys and provide WDS and
>client mode.

You can download, at no cost, either HyperWRT firmware or the
Satori firmware from Sveasoft. There are probably others
available.

The Linksys WRT54GS can be configured for client mode, in which
case it will connect wireless to your AP and will route to the
LAN ports for wired ethernet connections to other hosts at that
location. In that configuration the only wireless connection
the WRT54GS makes will be to the AP, so all network connections
must be via the LAN ports.

The WRT54GS can also be configured for WDS repeater mode, in
which case it will connect wireless to your AP and will also
connect wireless to other client mode units. In that
configuration the WRT54GS will also route to its LAN ethernet
ports, so both wireless and wired network connections can be
used.

Note that the throughput in WDS repeater mode is about half the
throughput in client mode, but in either case is almost
certainly some multiple of the througput to your Internet
connection. Which simply means that as long as Internet
traffic, as opposed to file or process sharing between local
hosts, is the only use for the wireless link, you really don't
care that the througput is half for one mode as opposed to the
other.

>So this would work yeah? The ADSL router doesn't support WDS or
>client mode by the looks of it.

No problem. It needs only act as an AP.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>I'm not sure what you're building, but the fast fix would be to
>download and install some alternative firmware in the WRT54GS that
>supports the client mode. However, this will limit the WRT54GS router
>to only bridging one MAC address.

Sure, but the MAC address is that of the WRT54GS switch port,
and up to 4 devices can be connected to the LAN ports, and
another to the WAN port, all on the switch.

>I'm not sure exactly how the router
>NAT section works in this mode, so some research will be necessary.

One thing to keep in mind with the WRT54G(S) routers is that
under the hood is a full blown Linux OS.

The versatility and flexibility is all there, though it is
hidden fairly well by the HTTP interface that Linksys firmware
provides. The various third party firmware packages pretty much
do make it available, if in a somewhat convoluted way.

Which is to say that typical configurations are easy to set up
with the supplied web interface; but virtually any complex
configuration is possible if a little ingenuity is applied to
the use of the startup file for boot time configuration.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)

Guy Robinson wrote:
> hello,
>
> I have a USRobotics 9106 ADSL 4 port wireless router and a Linksys
> WRT54GS in another house. I'm trying to get the Linksys to access the
> internet over the wireless link. But I can't get the 2 routers to
> communicate.

>
> Any pointers appreciated.
>
> regards,
>
> Guy

First update the linksys router.... go to
http://www.linksys.com/products/prod...id=35&prid=610
and on the right hand side of the page click "firmware"

you will get a page that says:
Firmware Upgrade For

WRT54GS - Wireless-G Broadband Router with SpeedBooster v1.0

Firmware Date : 1/3/2005
Firmware File Size : 3.43MB
Firmware Version : 3.37.6
Click here to download the firmware file.

Click here to download the version information.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
go there and click on the download firmware file.. an upgrader will be
downloaded along with the new firmware....

-------------------------------------------
Do the above... Then try it again.... If you still have probs then post
again.. But until you have a current version (firmware is 3.37.6, your post
said 1.1) it's hard to tell if your problem may not have already been
fixed...

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 12:16:54 +1300, Guy Robinson
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I've just upgraded the firmware in the USR 9106 and I now have this additional
>option:

(WDS...)

>So it looks like I can set the USR to be an AP. Or do I need to configure it as
>a bridge? I don't understand the difference.

Cool. You win. This MIGHT work. Turn on WDS bridging on both the
USR and Linksys boxes, configure the MAC address of the other box in
the appropriate place, and see if it will play bridge.

>Do I still need to upgrade the linksys firmware to allow client mode and WDS?

Negative. My client mode suggestion was only if the USR box does not
support WDS. As it apprarently does, don't bother with client mode at
this time.

What WDS does is simultaneously allow the access points to act as an
access point and a wireless bridge. In an access point, each wireless
connection will bridge exactly one MAC address. This is the typical
client mode found in laptops and most USB radios. There are also
"workgroup bridges" and "game adapters" that have some trick so that
it will bridge more than one MAC address. However, that's not the
issue here. The problem is that there's no provision or specification
for the wireless access points to talk to each other. That's where
WDS enters the picture. It provides the necessary protocol so that
the wireless access points can see and talk to each other.

However, free lunches are often full of worms. I your case, plugging
a wired LAN connection, or connecting with a wireless connection to
the USB modem/router/wireless box, will give you the full bandwidth
available on the DSL modem. If you connect to the USR router with the
Linksys using WDS, with a wired LAN connection, you will also get full
speed. However, the wireless clients connected to the Linksys will
get hit with a 50% speed reduction. That's because the radios can
only transmit one at a time. Because each packet is sent twice (once
from USR->Linksys, again from Linksys->wireless_client), each
transmitter has to wait until the other one shuts up. That cuts the
available transmit time in half, and the thruput in half. If you can
live with this, WDS is for you. If not, my favored solutions are to
either run a CAT5 cable between the LAN ports of the routers and run
the Linksys as an access point, or use two back to back radios on
different channels, running full duplex, to eliminate the 50%
bandwidth hit.

One gotcha here is that there are different implimentations of WDS
among different chipsets. Linksys uses Broadcom. I don't know what
the USR 9106 uses in the radio section. If it's Broadcom, it will
probably work. If something else, you may need a miracle. If the USR
9106 has an FCCID number on the serial number sticker (probably not as
it's a EU model only), then look on the FCCID web page for details.
It will probably describe the chipset used.

Good luck.
--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# (E-Mail Removed)
# (E-Mail Removed) AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>... plugging
>a wired LAN connection, or connecting with a wireless connection to
>the USB modem/router/wireless box, will give you the full bandwidth
>available on the DSL modem.

Assuming, and this is a very good assumption, that the wired or wireless
connection has a higher throughput than the DSL modem. That is almost
invariably true...

>If you connect to the USR router with the
>Linksys using WDS, with a wired LAN connection, you will also get full
>speed.

Same as above, this is almost invariably true.

>However, the wireless clients connected to the Linksys will
>get hit with a 50% speed reduction.

This is true *only* for the portion of the network that is over
the wireless facility... All of what you state below is true of
the wireless facility...

And *none* of this has anything to do with "the full bandwidth
available on the DSL modem", *unless* the bandwidth of the
wireless facility is *less* *than* that of the DSL modem.

And that is somewhat unlikely, eh? At least for typical DSL
modem bandwidths that I've heard about.

>That's because the radios can
>only transmit one at a time. Because each packet is sent twice (once
>from USR->Linksys, again from Linksys->wireless_client), each
>transmitter has to wait until the other one shuts up. That cuts the
>available transmit time in half, and the thruput in half. If you can
>live with this, WDS is for you.

Lets say you have a 1.5Mb/s DSL modem (probably faster than
average), and your wireless network has no WDS link, so you get
something like 24Mb/s throughput, max. Fine, except if that
traffic is gatewayed to the Internet via the 1.5Mb/s DSL, you
don't get more than 1.5Mb/s. And if you use *four* WDS links in
series, each of which cuts the throughput in half... the
wireless network is still just as fast as that 1.5Mb/s DSL, so
the overall bitrate is *still* just 1.5Mb/s!

Therefore, one might expect some degradation if there are *five*
WDS links in series! (And given the actual bitrates available
for most DSL modems, that's probably more like 7 or 8 WDS
links.)

All of which is to say that *if* (and *only if*) there is no
local traffic other than that gatewayed to the Internet, using
WDS is not going to degrade performance. If the local network
actually does have significant traffic, such as for file or
process servers, then yes the use of WDS will be significant.

>If not, my favored solutions are to
>either run a CAT5 cable between the LAN ports of the routers and run
>the Linksys as an access point, or use two back to back radios on
>different channels, running full duplex, to eliminate the 50%
>bandwidth hit.

I don't have any real experience with measuring the throughput
of such a configuration, but I'd expect it to also have a
significant, though less than 50%, reduction in bitrates.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) (E-Mail Removed)