Homeplug

Homeplug/
Anyone tred them? Any good?
Any speed improvement ?
Cheers

Occam wrote:
> Homeplug/
> Anyone tred them? Any good?
> Any speed improvement ?

I have a neighbour who I advised to get the 80Mb Solwise version to get rid
of some wires trailed across the floor (burying ethernet cable was
discussed, but they preferred the "no drilling holes anywhere" solution).
The plugs work "just like it says on the tin"; minimal setup, no hassles,
totally reliable.

When I looked, all the various brands had just re-implemented the reference
design of the underlying chip maker, so there was no advantage in buying
expensive branded versions. This may have changed in the year since I bought
them.


Like much networking kit, you usually don't see the full advertised
performance. So the 15Mb versions may be too slow to be useful. The 80Mb
seems to have enough headroom for most uses.


- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:54:55 +0100, "Mortimer" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>"Occam" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>news:(E-Mail Removed).. .
>>
>> Homeplug/
>> Anyone tred them? Any good?
>> Any speed improvement ?
>
>I've used the slow 14 Mbps ones by Solwise (the customer didn't want to pay
>extra for the 85 or 200 ones, and is now regretting it, having finally seen
>the benefit of a local PC-to-PC network as well as connections to the
>internet).
>
>The alternative was wireless, and that was giving very dodgy intermittent
>coverage in his house which has thick masonery internal walls. So Homeplug
>was the only way (apart from laying Cat5!).
>
>The Homeplug solution gave faultless service for about two years and then
>stopped working between certain mains sockets in the house although still
>worked between others - maybe there was some change in the house wiring that
>the customer wasn't aware of.
>
>Repositioning the router so as to allow one of the Homeplugs to be put into
>a different mains socket solved the problem - but also required an
>additional Homeplug because a second PC was no longer within wireless range.
>

I bought 2 Solwise ones a few months ago and they worked fine for a
while then suddenly stopped working . Solwise suggesting trying other
sockets but I didn't ..I just went back to using an extension cable .
I've now gone to a different ISP today and am using wireless so don't
know what the problem was with the Homeplugs

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 17:59:28 +0100, "SJP" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>
> I bought 2 Solwise ones a few months ago and they worked fine for a
>> while then suddenly stopped working . Solwise suggesting trying other
>> sockets but I didn't ..I just went back to using an extension cable .
>> I've now gone to a different ISP today and am using wireless so don't
>> know what the problem was with the Homeplugs
>
>So if you only bought them a few months ago why didn't you get them replaced
>by Solwise?
>

Well my intention was to try what they suggested and if that didn't
work get them replaced but ..you know how it is...time dragged on and
on and on...anyway they are still in warranty .

Mark McIntyre wrote:
> John Livingston wrote:
>> Occam wrote:
>>> Homeplug/
>>> Anyone tred them? Any good?
>>> Any speed improvement ?
>>> Cheers
>>
>> There are some rather alarming reports about the radio interference
>> these things can produce.
>
> This seems largely to be FUD to be fair. The frequency these things use
> is well into the shortwave region so unless you're an air traffic
> control tower or a radio ham, you probably shouldn't experience any issues.
>

Oh? right were the broadband works eh?


> That said of course, if you have poor quality wiring with loose joints,
> dodgy transformers etc then running SW radio waves through it may cause
> all sorts of horrible harmonics.
>
> > It seems that OFCOM are looking into some of the problems these cause.
>
> There's no evidence of this on Ofcom's website. Do you have a reference?

My advice is to be cautious. The hype around these is not reflected in their performance in my
experience:


I tried some a year or so ago and they didn't work well at all.
The connection speed was very poor - about 1mbs. Nowhere near the advertised 80mbs


I tried to resolve it and was told that they they can suffer from interference from mains noise.
This is caused by many devices, but in particular small power supplies such as mobile phone chargers
etc. Its a total show stopper if its your router power supply.


I went round the house systematically disconnecting everything to try to find the culprit(s) but
gave up in the end.



My advice is to use cat5 discretely routed, and lay it into the walls next time you redecorate.
That will work 100% all the time.

That said, I think Solwise are good - they will let you try them out and return them if they don't
work in your environment I believe (check with them about that).



HTH - Adam



Occam wrote:
> Homeplug/
> Anyone tred them? Any good?
> Any speed improvement ?
> Cheers

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 07:29:42 +0100, Adam Lipscombe
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>My advice is to be cautious. The hype around these is not reflected in their performance in my
>experience:
>
>
>I tried some a year or so ago and they didn't work well at all.
>The connection speed was very poor - about 1mbs. Nowhere near the advertised 80mbs
>
>
>I tried to resolve it and was told that they they can suffer from interference from mains noise.
>This is caused by many devices, but in particular small power supplies such as mobile phone chargers
>etc. Its a total show stopper if its your router power supply.
>
>
>I went round the house systematically disconnecting everything to try to find the culprit(s) but
>gave up in the end.
>
>
>
>My advice is to use cat5 discretely routed, and lay it into the walls next time you redecorate.
>That will work 100% all the time.
>
>That said, I think Solwise are good - they will let you try them out and return them if they don't
>work in your environment I believe (check with them about that).
>
>
>
>HTH - Adam
>
>
>
>Occam wrote:
>> Homeplug/
>> Anyone tred them? Any good?
>> Any speed improvement ?
>> Cheers







many thanks for all the replies

John Livingston wrote:
> Mark McIntyre wrote:
>> John Livingston wrote:
>>> Mark McIntyre wrote:
>>>> John Livingston wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There are some rather alarming reports about the radio interference
>>>>> these things can produce.
>>>>
>>>> This seems largely to be FUD to be fair.
>
> Not supported by fact. See the research papers listed in the URLs below.
>
>>> FM radio between 88 and 108MHz ??
>>
>> Isn't short-wave.
>
> "Short Wave" is an archaic term with very vague definitions. How about
> "HF radio" or "VHF Radio". That is 3-30Mhz and 30-300MHz, respectively.
>
>>> (More immune to AM interference but still noticeable in my experience).
>>
>> Are you saying you have personal evidence of interference with FM
>> radio from a homeplug device?
>
> No - did I say that ?
> The point was that FM is potentially affected by AM interference of all
> kinds. Including Homeplug.
>
> Homeplugs use "PLT" (Power Line Transmission). I'm not going to jump
> through hoops to convince you. If you have a problem with my views, you
> should read this report on PLT from the European Broadcasting Union
> Technical Review. It's at :
>
> http://www.ebu.ch/en/technical/trev/trev_307-stott.pdf
>
> This paragraph from the report sums things up rather well :
>
> "Quite simply, it appears that radio reception and PLT operation cannot
> try to use the same frequency in the same place at the same time. Mains
> wiring is ubiquitous throughout the home.
> PLT normally operates as an “always-on” resource. So if PLT uses the
> same spectrum as radio services that are received in or near the home
> (broadcasting, amateur radio…) then interference and conflict is
> inevitable".
>
> If you want a more rigorous analysis - try this BBC research paper :
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp...les/WHP004.pdf
>
> If you still think Homeplugs are a good idea after reading and
> understanding that....
>
Well yes,they may be. Fascinating read, but not wholly relevant.
Remember that PLT was the proposed power line transmission IIRC whereby
internet traffic would be carried over miles of pylons etc. That was
effectively discounted partly for the reasons cited there. DSL itself is
the other technology under discussion, and for sure, all our DSL signals
fill the MW area with mush..



Homeplugs in order to get the data rate are probably operating up to
10Mhz or so.

That is, shortwave. We don't use shortwave for much of anyhing these
days apart from ham bands.


> Bear in mind, of course, that Homeplugs are themselves prone to
> interference from household electrical devices. As I said before - keep
> to standard data cabling and avoid this.

If you can., but just about every device these days has to pass
stringent tests with respect to injecting RFI into the mains.

Many people use homeplugs, and it works for them.

Caveats are in order, but a blanket dismissal is, I feel, not.

In article <5Kudnd42X7-(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
says...
> Occam wrote:
> > Homeplug/
> > Anyone tred them? Any good?
> > Any speed improvement ?
> > Cheers
>
> There are some rather alarming reports about the radio interference
> these things can produce. It seems that OFCOM are looking into some of
> the problems these cause.
>
> If you (or your neighbours) listen to broadcast radio, and you are not
> in a particularly strong reception area, expect to have your listening
> spoiled by various loud buzzing noises. Some people also report
> interference to their mobile phones and stereo systems. Have a listen to
> this :
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=aflYqUCktxo&feature=related
>
> These things are apparently CE approved, but the approval will have been
> done by testing in ideal conditions. House wiring is totally variable,
> and one house's wiring plus Homeplug may not cause much of an issue,
> while another may radiate loud radio frequency rubbish all over the
> neighbourhood.
>
> I'm a professional radio engineer (retired...), and it is my view that
> these data over mains devices are a menace. Use good old copper cable -
> it will save you all sorts of pain in the long run.
>
> John
>

I have 3 of the Devolo dLAN 200 AVdesk ones and regularly listen to the
radio have never had a problem with interference from them.

Interference from bloody mobile phones is another matter.

It's all very well advising to use copper cable but explain that to my
missus when i want to drill holes in the ceilings and run cable up the
walls.

--
"Please be informed that Port 80 is meant only for the FTP files
upload."
Deewna, BT Total Broadband Support

In article <qeGdnVAeW-(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed)
says...
>
> Fully understand the "You're not boring more holes in the walls" effect!
>
> There is a case to be made that data cabling has become a commodity
> service requirement in the same way as water pipes and mains electricity
> wiring. It's a real pain to instal, but once it's done, that's it.
> Homeplugs may have a function as a quick bodge to get some kind of
> service, but I don't think they should be regarded as any sort of longer
> term option. You will be one of the fortunate ones in that your
> installation isn't radiating significantly. Another house - another
> situation. YMMV.


Well if i could get my way every power socket in all new house builds
should have a network point close to it and a switch in the loft or
under the stairs.

Unfortunately our house was built in 1885 with solid walls and nowhere
to hide cables without having to dig channels into the plaster and then
replaster afterwards and being an old house there's a lot more work
needing to be done on our house of a much higher priority.

--
"Please be informed that Port 80 is meant only for the FTP files
upload."
Deewna, BT Total Broadband Support