HomePlug Networking

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 20:37:38 -0000
"Martin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "Roger" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:hd9ris$8pe$(E-Mail Removed)...

<snip inaccurate grandiose bollocks>
>
> I can understand the confusion:

Yes, Roger does his best to act like a human being, but he is actually
pond scum and should be treated as such.

"Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:4af1fd35@212.67.96.135...
>
> I've never used these things myself. The place where I want to get
> ethernet is in my garage, and that is on another phase, of the 3-phase
> supply to my house. I doubt these things work on 3-phase supplies,
> where the two computers are on different phases, though I do not know
> if that is true.

This brings up something I've been wondering before venturing into the
purchase of a pair of HomePlug ethernet adapters. How do I determine if
two electrical sockets are on the same phase or not? Is there some
inexpensive instrument one could buy, say at Radio Shack, to determine
that? Buying a HomePlug kit without knowing it is an expensive gamble.

On 03/01/2010 04:31, Cameo wrote:
> "Dave" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:4af1fd35@212.67.96.135...
>>
>> I've never used these things myself. The place where I want to get
>> ethernet is in my garage, and that is on another phase, of the 3-phase
>> supply to my house. I doubt these things work on 3-phase supplies,
>> where the two computers are on different phases, though I do not know
>> if that is true.
>
> This brings up something I've been wondering before venturing into the
> purchase of a pair of HomePlug ethernet adapters. How do I determine if
> two electrical sockets are on the same phase or not?

I'm not sure about elsewhere but it's almost unknown for a UK domestic
dwelling to use more than one phase. If it does it will probably be a
separate supply to a workshop using heavy machinery.

Is there some
> inexpensive instrument one could buy, say at Radio Shack, to determine
> that? Buying a HomePlug kit without knowing it is an expensive gamble.

If you buy by mail-order the distance-selling regulations allow you to
return the goods. Most high-street retailers have a no-quibble
guarantee, typically 7 or 14 days.


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On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:30:05 +0000
Bernard Peek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> If you buy by mail-order the distance-selling regulations allow you
> to return the goods.

After you've had a look at them, not after you've used them and
changed your mind.

On 03/01/2010 14:34, Rob Morley wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:30:05 +0000
> Bernard Peek<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> If you buy by mail-order the distance-selling regulations allow you
>> to return the goods.
>
> After you've had a look at them, not after you've used them and
> changed your mind.
>
See http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf

The buyer has the option to cancel the sales contract for up to seven
working days after they have received the goods, and don't have to give
any reason for doing so. If the seller fails to comply with the distance
selling regulations by failing to provide certain specified information
this is extended to three months.

If the goods fail to work then these time limits do not apply because
the goods can be returned under a different law.


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On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 16:58:53 +0000
Bernard Peek <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> On 03/01/2010 14:34, Rob Morley wrote:
> > On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:30:05 +0000
> > Bernard Peek<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >> If you buy by mail-order the distance-selling regulations allow you
> >> to return the goods.
> >
> > After you've had a look at them, not after you've used them and
> > changed your mind.
> >
> See
> http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf
>
> The buyer has the option to cancel the sales contract for up to seven
> working days after they have received the goods, and don't have to
> give any reason for doing so. If the seller fails to comply with the
> distance selling regulations by failing to provide certain specified
> information this is extended to three months.

DSR is intended only to give the purchaser the same opportunity to
inspect goods that he would have if he were buying in person from a
shop - it's not a catch-all try-before-you-buy money-back guarantee.
>
> If the goods fail to work then these time limits do not apply because
> the goods can be returned under a different law.
>
Sale of Goods Act.

"Chris Whelan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:VeZ%m.22094$(E-Mail Removed)2...
> Is there a 3ph supply to the property? It's pretty rare for a dwelling
> or
> small business.

To tell you, I have no idea. I just brought this up because several
other posters mentioned that the HomePlug devices did not work across
phases. That implied to me that it was not unusual to have 3-phase lines
in homes.

> If you want to use Homeplug in a situation where there is a 3ph
> supply,
> there should be a card or label in each distribution board showing how
> the circuits are arranged.

I don't see anything like that. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I
live in the US, so electric standards of other countries don't
necessarily apply.

> Failing that, a meter can be used together with a length of cable to
> measure the voltage between the live poles of the two sockets intended
> to
> be used; it will be zero-ish if on the same phase, and 415 if on
> different phases.

That doesn't sound like you live in the US. Here one phase voltage is
120 V, making the phase-to-phase to phase around 220 V, no?

On 03/01/2010 19:57, Cameo wrote:
> "Chris Whelan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:VeZ%m.22094$(E-Mail Removed)2...
>> Is there a 3ph supply to the property? It's pretty rare for a dwelling or
>> small business.
>
> To tell you, I have no idea. I just brought this up because several
> other posters mentioned that the HomePlug devices did not work across
> phases. That implied to me that it was not unusual to have 3-phase lines
> in homes.

Not working across phases is a feature not a bug. In the UK its normal
for the three phases to be used in rotation as you move along the
street. So the house next-door will use a different phase and so won't
be able to eavesdrop. I've heard reports of houses three doors away
being able to intercept traffic but that's definitely not consistent. In
any case these devices invariably encrypt traffic.
[...]
>
> That doesn't sound like you live in the US. Here one phase voltage is
> 120 V, making the phase-to-phase to phase around 220 V, no?

I understand that its more common to use two phases in the US. If you
have a 220v socket that's how its done.


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On 03/01/2010 18:53, Rob Morley wrote:


>> The buyer has the option to cancel the sales contract for up to seven
>> working days after they have received the goods, and don't have to
>> give any reason for doing so. If the seller fails to comply with the
>> distance selling regulations by failing to provide certain specified
>> information this is extended to three months.
>
> DSR is intended only to give the purchaser the same opportunity to
> inspect goods that he would have if he were buying in person from a
> shop - it's not a catch-all try-before-you-buy money-back guarantee.

Whatever its intentions it does give a mail-order customer seven working
days to cancel the contract without any penalties.

>>
>> If the goods fail to work then these time limits do not apply because
>> the goods can be returned under a different law.
>>
> Sale of Goods Act.
>

Yes

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"Chris Whelan" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:8580n.22519$(E-Mail Removed)2...
> Ah, OK. One of the NG's you have posted to is
> *uk*.comp.home-networking.
> The uk part indicates United Kingdom...

I'm sorry. When I replied I forgot to remove the UK ng someone else
added earlier.