Homeplug to *extend* a network?

I am thinking of using homeplug to extend an existing netwrok.
everything on the network is working fine, there's simply a room where
I can't get access to the wired and wireless network.

If I were to buy two homeplug adapters, one for the currently
inaccessible room, and one to attach to the existing router, would the
homeplugged computer be able to access all the other network devices
and would the other devices be able to access the homeplugged
computer?

I have looked around and all the homepluggy examples show a
homeplugged network where all devices use vast arrays of homeplugs

Am thinking of getting "Twin Pack 85Mb Homeplug Ethernet Adapter" -
the 85MB fine for what I want at the mo.

Does homeplug "mix and match" okay?

Thanks

Noz

In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
Mortimer said...

>Yes. Homeplug acts as if it was a piece of Ethernet cable, so anything you
>can do over Ethernet you can do over Homeplug. This assumes that the two
>Homeplug devices can communicate - ie that they one the same mains phase
>(almost certainly because houses normally have just one phase supplied) and
>that they are connected to the same fuse box / circuit breaker box. The
>signal will not go through an electricity meter, but then a domestic supply
>almost certainly has only one meter!
>
>I think Homeplug is a standard that spans different manufacturers, but if
>you are buying two, you may as well buy the same make and model to play it
>safe.

Brill

That's what I assumed - but I wanted clarification

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Noz

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Nozza says...
>
> I am thinking of using homeplug to extend an existing netwrok.
> everything on the network is working fine, there's simply a room where
> I can't get access to the wired and wireless network.
>
Don't.

They are the spawn of Satan and wipe out everything from 1Mhz to 50Mhz
within a 200 yard radius of your house - basically all HF radio.

If you're close to someone like me who uses amateur radio and you cause
them interference, expect a knock on the door from Ofcom for committing
the offence of "Radio Spectrum Abuse".

The first 20 seconds of this video show the absolute fucking racket
these things make all over HF radio.

Googe BPL PLT interference.


--
Conor
www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
Mortimer says...

> Yes. Homeplug acts as if it was a piece of Ethernet cable, so anything you
> can do over Ethernet you can do over Homeplug.

Wrong. Ethernet doesn't wipe out HF radio within a 200 yard radius.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XT99...eature=related

--
Conor
www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Nozza says...
>
> In article <(E-Mail Removed) >,
> Mortimer said...
>
> >Yes. Homeplug acts as if it was a piece of Ethernet cable, so anything you
> >can do over Ethernet you can do over Homeplug. This assumes that the two
> >Homeplug devices can communicate - ie that they one the same mains phase
> >(almost certainly because houses normally have just one phase supplied) and
> >that they are connected to the same fuse box / circuit breaker box. The
> >signal will not go through an electricity meter, but then a domestic supply
> >almost certainly has only one meter!
> >
> >I think Homeplug is a standard that spans different manufacturers, but if
> >you are buying two, you may as well buy the same make and model to play it
> >safe.
>
> Brill
>
> That's what I assumed - but I wanted clarification
>
Oh fucking great. Another person using these illegal contraptions.



--
Conor
www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Conor said...

>Oh fucking great. Another person using these illegal contraptions.

How to make friends and *influence* people



Noz

In article <w5bdm.117875$(E-Mail Removed)2>, Chris Whelan says...

> Conor, I'm interested in what way these devices are illegal. Can you
> point me to a source of information in this respect please?
>
Yes.

For subsection (5) of section 19 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949

(5A)

b) it degrades, obstructs or repeatedly interrupts anything which is
being broadcast or otherwise transmitted?

(i) by means of wireless telegraphy; and

(ii) in accordance with a licence under this Act, regulations under the
proviso to section 1(1) of this Act or a grant of recognised spectrum
access under Chapter 2 of Part 2 of the Communications Act 2003 or
otherwise lawfully.?


It does part (ii) by causing massive interference on parts of the
spectrum used by Amateur Radio and governmental departments for HF
broadcast. If the BBC World Service was still broadcast within the UK,
it'd obliterate that too.

The Ofcom engineer that visited me to investigate a complaint I made
against someone living two streets away said that they were causing
interference and were committing the offence of "Radio Spectrum Abuse".

Also Ofcom have a page dedicated to it which states that it has to
comply with EMC regulations which they clearly are not doing.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/enforcement/plt/
--
Conor
www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

In article <lZ-(E-Mail Removed)>,
Mortimer says...

> As a matter of interest, do they interfere with broadcast radio (eg LW/MW
> reception) or is it mainly radio hams and HF reception? What about their
> affect on other mains communication devices like baby intercoms? And do
> those intercoms interfere with HF radio?

It is all shortwave communications from approximately 1Mhz through to
50Mhz. It was reported that it would have affected the original BBC
World Service frequency in the UK had they still been transmitting.
Whilst baby intercoms do cause interference, it is specifically
restricted to the band that they're supposed to be on and extremely
marginally because they're transmitting over the mains on very low
power as it isn't essential that the signal being received is
completely devoid of noise and errors.

The problem is this:

PLT adapters were certified in a lab. It was found that when they were
put into wide use in home environments that because of the noise on the
mains, they weren't able to communicate using the transmission power
they had been using when being certified. In order to resolve the
problem, they simply upped the transmitter power despite the fact that
they knew it'd mean more interference caused and would break their CE
certification.

The reason they interfere up to 50Mhz is that they need 50Mhz of
bandwidth in order to provide the network speed that they do.

They have been banned in many US states. Its more of a problem there
because CB and Amateur Radio is far more popular so more people are
experiencing PLT interference..

Here's some of a list of what on the UK radio spectrum it interferes
with. Figure on the left is the frequency. Anything over 1000 is 1Mhz
and above. As you can see nearer the bottom half of the table, it
starts interfering with quite a lot of very important stuff although it
has to be remembered that with an effective interference radius of
about 200ft, its effect will be somewhat limited but if someone lived
just across the road from a UK Coastguard Station, as they do in
Bridlington, and had PLT it could cause the Coastguard some serious
problems.

1026 local (BBC/ILR)
1035 local (BBC/ILR)
1053 INR3 Talk Radio UK
1089 INR3 Talk Radio UK
1107 ILR + INR3 Talk Radio
1116 local (BBC/ILR)
1125 BBC regional (Wales)
1143 CFA tests, 11/2000, Wooferton
1152 ILR
1161 local (BBC/ILR)
1170 ILR
1197 fill-in INR2 Virgin
1215 INR2 Virgin (once "Virgin 1215")
1233 fill-in INR2 Virgin
1242 local (ILR/INR2 Virgin)
1251 ILR (1)
1260 local (BBC/ILR/INR2 Virgin)
1269 RSL Brands Hatch
1278 ILR + RSL
1287 RSL
1296 National BBC World Service
1305 ILR
1323 local (BBC/ILR) + ex RSL
1332 local (BBC/ILR)
1341 BBC regional (Ulster)
1350 RSL (Hospital RSL)
1359 local (BBC/ILR)
1368 local (BBC/ILR)
1377 ILR (1)
1386 RSL
1404 RSL
1413 local (BBC/ILR/RSL)
1431 ILR
1440 ex The Great 208 - Radio Luxembourg (MW closed
30.dec.1991) started 1933, LW, moved 1439 2.jul.1951
1449 BBC local (some BBC R4)
1458 local BBC/ILR)
1476 ILR
1485 local (BBC/BBC R4/ILR)
1494 RSL Tooting
1503 local (BBC/RSL)
1521 local (BBC/ILR) 1520 was Radio Caroline (started 28 Mar
1964)
1530 local (BBC/ILR)
1548 local (BBC/ILR)
1557 local (BBC/ILR)
1566 RSL
1575 RSL
1584 local (BBC/ILR)
1602 RSL


1.6055 MF "Fixed & Mobile" - Maritime / Land / Aero(OR)

1.642...Cordless phones (CT0 base), to 1782 (8x 20kHz FM),
handsets duplex at 47.456-47.543 MHz (12.5kHz spacing, 6.25
offsets)
Channel 7 (1762) may use 47.531 or 47.444
To be phased out. No new equipment after apr.2005
Handsets on 1690, 1710, 1730, 1750, 1770 may be unapproved
USA gear (base 49.86-49.93)

Amateur Radio 160m "Top Band" (1.81-2.0) shared (SSB used is
mainly LSB below 10MHz)

1.6 to 3.8MHz mostly known for maritime use (intership,
trawler chat etc)
(3kHz SSB channels 1635-1797 and 2053-2153?)

2.182 Calling, Distress (Coastguards)

Tropical bands around 2.4 MHz (120 metres), 3.3 MHz (90 metres) and
5 MHz (60 metres)
kHz Bands (as used by the BBC) :

SSB (3kHz SSB channels) :
kHz
2182 Calling, Distress
2046+ 2049 intership
2053+ 2056 intership
2241 British intership
2246 British intership
2301 British intership
4000- 4060 shared with Fixed Service chs 1-21
4146+ 4149 intership 4B & 4C (4125=4A)
4357- 4435 shore chs 401- 427 ( -292kHz split: 4065- 4143)
4417/ 4125 calling
6224- 6230 intership 6A,6B,6C
6501- 6522 shore chs 601- 608 ( -301kHz split: 6200- 6221)
6516/ 6215 calling
8101- 8191 shared with Fixed Service chs 1-31
8291 ch 833 GMDSS
8294+ 8297 intership 8A & 8B
8364 SAR
8707- 8716 chs 834-837
8719- 8812 shore chs 801- 832 ( -524kHz split: 8195- 8288)
8779/ 8255 calling
12353-12365 intership
13077-13197 shore chs 1201-1241 ( -847kHz split: 12230-12350)
13137/12290 calling
16528-16546 intership
17242-17407 shore chs 1601-1656 ( -882kHz split: 16360-16525)
17302/16420 calling
18825-18843 intership
19755-19797 shore chs 1801-1815 ( -975kHz split: 18780-18822)
19770/18795 calling
22159-22177 intership
22696-22852 shore chs 2201-2253 ( -696kHz split: 22000-22156)
22756/22060 calling
25100-25118 intership
26145-26172 shore chs 2501-2510 (-1075kHz split: 25070-25097)
26172/25097 calling

12359 Herb VAX498 (nr Toronto) 20:00 - 22:00 UTC



o Aeronautical R or ER (En-Route on fixed airways; so mainly
civil) (3kHz SSB channels) more
kHz
2851- 3019 NATS: 2872, 2899, 2971, 3016 (Ireland)
3401- 3497 NATS: 3413 (VolMet), 3476 BT: 3482
4651- 4696 NATS: 4675
5481- 5676 NATS: 5505 (VolMet), 5598, 5616, 5649 BT: 5610, 5670
(Rugby) Speedwing: 5535 (Cove)
6526- 6682 NATS: 6622 BT: 6634 +EC!
8816- 8960 NATS: 8831, 8864, 8879, 8891, 8906, 8957 (VolMet) BT:
8960
10006-10096
11276-11396 NATS: 11279, 11336 BT: 11306
13261-13357 NATS: 13264 (VolMet), 13291, 13306
17901-17967 NATS: 17946
21925-21997



o Aeronautical OR (Off-Route; so mainly military) (3kHz SSB
channels) GHFS
Watch for "Airfield colour states" every hour at the same
minutes past the hour.
Volmet weather info broadcasts are easy to find...
kHz
3023 - 3152 3023 SAR (night) and up to 3230= ?
3800 - 3950
4700= -4995= +CCF
5450= -5480= 5450 RAF VolMet
5680 GMDSS SAR (day)
5684 - 5726 5711
6685 - 6763 6739
8965 - 9037 9031 "On-the-hour" and H+30 "Architect"
11175 -11271 11175 is the "triple 1" calling channel 11253 RAF
VolMet
13200 -13257
15010 -15097
17970 -18027
21870=-21924= Fixed
23200=-23350=



o Sounding - investigating the ionospheric conditions by
sweeping 2 to 30MHz every
5 minutes (100kHz per second). A chirp hits 7MHz at about
2:28 into each 5 minute segment


o In the remaining parts of HF, you'd be forgiven for thinking
anything goes )
I presume "fixed" on its own means mobile so long as one
station is fixed!
kHz
3155= -3400= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
4000= -4063= Fixed + Sea Mobile (4000-4060 USB, ch1-21)
4438= -4650= Fixed + all Mobile +CCF
5005= -5450= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile +CCF
5730= -5950= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
6765= -7000= Fixed + Land Mobile (6.78 ISM : 6.765-6.795, half of
13.56)
7300= -8100= Fixed + Land Mobile
8100= -8195= Fixed + Maritime Mobile (8101-8191 USB, ch1-31)
9040= -9500= Fixed
9900= -9995= Fixed
10150=-11175= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
11400=-11700= Fixed
12050=-12230= Fixed
13360=-13600= Fixed + all Mobile (13.56 ISM : 13.533-13.587)
13800=-14000= Fixed + all Mobile + EC!
14350=-14990= Fixed + all Mobile
15600=-16360= Fixed
17410=-17550= Fixed
18030=-18068= Fixed
18168=-18780= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
18900=-19680= Fixed (18.9 to 19.02 broadcasting after 2007)
19800=-19990= Fixed
20010=-21000= Fixed + all Mobile
21750=-21870= Fixed
22855=-23000= Fixed
23000=-23200= Fixed + all Mobile
23350=-24890= Fixed + Land Mobile
25010=-25070= Fixed + Land Mobile
25210=-25550= Fixed + Land & Sea Mobile
25550=-25600= Radio Astronomy






--
Conor
www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 10:38:30 +0100, Conor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> The Ofcom engineer that visited me to investigate a complaint I made
> against someone living two streets away said that they were causing
> interference and were committing the offence of "Radio Spectrum Abuse".

That Ofcom technician ("engineer" - ROTFL!) should get retrained. If your
neighbour was using CE marked/certified/approved equipment that was causing
interference then it is not the neighbour who was committing an offence.

> Also Ofcom have a page dedicated to it which states that it has to
> comply with EMC regulations which they clearly are not doing.
>
> http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/enforcement/plt/

which says: "The person who places products on the market (usually the
manufacturer or the importer) must ensure that the products comply and
apply the ‘CE’ mark." An innocent consumer of marked equipment is
committing no offence (where offence means a crime/breach of the law).

You have my sympathy but if there if any offender it is not that neighbour.

Tony

In article <Lq6dnSNq54EwXejXnZ2dnUVZ8r-(E-Mail Removed)>,
"Mortimer" wrote:

>
> What about ADSL? Does that cause any interference?

it's very low power and on twisted pairs. But how about the reverse
direction - Homeplugs interfering with ADSL2+ (up to 2.2Mhz) and even
slowing down ADSL2 (<1.1Mhz) by making the higher frequency bins
unuseable?

--
John W
I you really want to mail me, replace the obvious with co.uk twice