Homemade Antenna Choice, Jeff, et al, can you give me your best guess?

miso <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:j8qp7b$o1$(E-Mail Removed):

>On 11/1/2011 10:05 PM, arnie wrote:
>> miso<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> news:j8q7t4$lg$(E-Mail Removed):
>>
>>>> http://www.data-alliance.net/-strse-...-AWUS036H-1000
>>>> mW -USB/Detail.bok
>>>
>>> While I agree with Jeff that USB sucks, this is a decent
>>> USB wifi dongle. The antenna is external via reverse SMA.
>>> It is quite cheap through Data Alliance and these guys
>>> ship fast. I got this one and the N version, though the
>>> 036H is the better long distance unit.
>>>
>>> While it's fun to build antennas, there are some cheap
>>> wifi antennas that are pretty good. Try the Laird
>>> PA24-16. The radiation pattern doesn't have a lot of
>>> lobes. It is about $35 if you look around.
>>>
>>> I built the wifi biquad a few years ago for yucks. It
>>> worked OK. There are some tips on this list on how to
>>> build it since many of the websites do it incorrectly.
>>>
>>> I like these panel antennas. They are easy to transport.
>>> All the elements are under a radome, so other than water
>>> infiltration problems, they are well suited for outdoors.
>>> Avoid units that come with a pigtail. It is better to
>>> have a connector on the back.
>>>
>>> Given construction tolerances, antennas that depend upon
>>> aperture rather than elements re-radiating the signal
>>> will work better. That is, a yagi looks good on paper,
>>> but a lot depends on how tightly all the dimensions are
>>> controlled. These panel antennas just sum a lot of
>>> smaller antennas, so the bandwidth is broader and the
>>> design is more tolerant to manufacturing tolerances. Some
>>> of these panel antenna are air isolated, and some are
>>> just etched PCB. I would imaging the antenna with air
>>> spacing works better, though I don't know if there is a
>>> list of how who builds what.
>>>
>>
>> Read too many complaints about that outfit you mention,
>> located on the Mexico border. If you buy wifi equipment
>> stick with suppliers that guarantee and test their
>> products:
>>
>> http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-in...reless/review-
>> suppliers-some-good-ones-some-lemons-wifi-radios-68636.html
>Yeah, you complained the last time I mentioned Data
>Alliance. Hey, two orders, no problems. I order at night, it
>is shipped in the morning, and I get the item in 2 day. I
>should be so lucky with most vendors.
>
>I suspect you are fronting for the competition.
>
>OK, so they are only A when top of the line is A+.
>> http://www.bbb.org/tucson/business-r...mputers-networ
>> ks/data-alliance-in-nogales-az-20025847
>
>Do you have some problem with Mexicans?
>

Nope I have NO monetary interest in the Wifi field, been all
over Mexico, I like them. What I don't like are
unprofessional "suppliers" who put up a webpage, thing they
are a big outfit when they are small potatoes and treat
customers badly and DO NOT WARRANTY their extravagant claims.

By the way if you READ the link I supplied you will see the
OP said they were rated low until they made a payment to the
BBB and overnight their rating went up to A. Like most gov.
agencies the BBB is corrupt.

miso wrote:

> The AWUS036H is magic.

No it's not

The Realtek 8187L chipset that it uses is what's magic.

Any other cheap USB dongle with the same chipset and a removable antenna will perform just as well.

For "G" applications this chipset is hard to beat. The drivers work with the latest Linux flavours a lot better than they used to. Will now hold fulls peed.

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

>On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 04:05:47 +0000 (UTC), Foxybaby
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>I don't have a choice, money is tight and I got these two
>>at an estate sale for $1 each.
>
>Good price. Hopefully, they'll work.

They do, but you're right, not strong enough, maybe I have to
buy another Alfa.


<snip>

>
>Since you're cost limited, I suggest you try one of these:
><http://www.freeantennas.com>
>Cardboard, covered with aluminum foil, works well enough.

Yeah looked at all the homemade sites. That's how I got the
umbrella idea.

<snip>

>>I guess I don't have to worry about removing the thin nylon
>>of the umbrella as the waves will go right through it and
>>reflect on the foil on the other side, right?
>
>I think the nylon is RF transparent. However, if it's been
>painted or silk screened with something containing carbon or
>metallic powder, you'll have a problem. Find a small piece
>and put it in the microwave oven. If it gets hot, you
>loose. If it says cool, you win.

Yeah thanks, I will test it in microwave.

>
>>Just trying to get any reasonable surfing connection to a
>>hotspot.
>
>Ummm... I'm not really interested in helping you do that,
>especially since it seems you haven't obtained permission.

How am I going to ask if I cannot determine who owns it? It's
reverses to a big Telecom. I don't have the equipment to
follow the signal to their door. Besides their intention
clearly is to leave it open. For all I know they are sniffing
my data; even SSL is no longer safe.

>
>>BTW just started using
>>Inssider, cuz heard Netstumber does not work under Win7.
>
>Nestumbler is ancient and has not been updated for about 5
>years. Inssider is a good replacement. There are others.
>Bug me if you need a list.

Insidder works on 7 but the graph output is very hard to read
from just a few feet away. With NS you got a solid graph that
you could adjust your antenna from across the room. I tried NS
on 7, it installed and opened ok but cannot see anything, even
when set to xp compatible.

> By the way if you READ the link I supplied you will see the
> OP said they were rated low until they made a payment to the
> BBB and overnight their rating went up to A. Like most gov.
> agencies the BBB is corrupt.

I seriously doubt you can buy a good rating from the BBB.

The BBB is private enterprise. Of course, that makes them more likely to
be corrupt.

On 11/2/2011 4:07 PM, Foxybaby wrote:
> Jeff Liebermann<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> news:(E-Mail Removed):
>
>> On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 04:05:47 +0000 (UTC), Foxybaby
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't have a choice, money is tight and I got these two
>>> at an estate sale for $1 each.
>>
>> Good price. Hopefully, they'll work.
>
> They do, but you're right, not strong enough, maybe I have to
> buy another Alfa.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>
>> Since you're cost limited, I suggest you try one of these:
>> <http://www.freeantennas.com>
>> Cardboard, covered with aluminum foil, works well enough.
>
> Yeah looked at all the homemade sites. That's how I got the
> umbrella idea.
>
> <snip>
>
>>> I guess I don't have to worry about removing the thin nylon
>>> of the umbrella as the waves will go right through it and
>>> reflect on the foil on the other side, right?
>>
>> I think the nylon is RF transparent. However, if it's been
>> painted or silk screened with something containing carbon or
>> metallic powder, you'll have a problem. Find a small piece
>> and put it in the microwave oven. If it gets hot, you
>> loose. If it says cool, you win.
>
> Yeah thanks, I will test it in microwave.
>
>>
>>> Just trying to get any reasonable surfing connection to a
>>> hotspot.
>>
>> Ummm... I'm not really interested in helping you do that,
>> especially since it seems you haven't obtained permission.
>
> How am I going to ask if I cannot determine who owns it? It's
> reverses to a big Telecom. I don't have the equipment to
> follow the signal to their door. Besides their intention
> clearly is to leave it open. For all I know they are sniffing
> my data; even SSL is no longer safe.
>
>>
>>> BTW just started using
>>> Inssider, cuz heard Netstumber does not work under Win7.
>>
>> Nestumbler is ancient and has not been updated for about 5
>> years. Inssider is a good replacement. There are others.
>> Bug me if you need a list.
>
> Insidder works on 7 but the graph output is very hard to read
> from just a few feet away. With NS you got a solid graph that
> you could adjust your antenna from across the room. I tried NS
> on 7, it installed and opened ok but cannot see anything, even
> when set to xp compatible.
>

If you want to go for cheap, I'd build the biquad then just solder wires
to your $1 wifi dongle. You will have to inspect the PCB and cut out the
internal antenna. If you have the FCC number, it is possible to find a
photograph of the inside of the dongle.

You do realize that Netstumbler can be detected. It is not a passive
sniffer.

I haven't run NS in years, but I don't think it finds stealth WAPs. Thus
you can have interference without knowing it. There are Cygwin
implementations of kismet, though I never tried them myself. I'd sooner
try to set up a thumb drive linux.

> http://www.pendrivelinux.com/usb-bac...-installation/

Foxybaby <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Thanks much for your reply.
> I don't have a choice, money is tight and I got these two at an estate
> sale for $1 each.

It's easy enough to stick the USB dongle into the side of a coffee can.
I theorized that two of the 2lb cans, soldered to make a longer can
would be the good solution, but the "customer" said the single coffee can
was better, because it didn't have such a narrow beam. He was just setting
them on the back of a couch in the window, using pillows to clamp it into
the right orientation to reach a router about a block away.

Other ideas:
http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/

My coffeecantenna:
http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/u...42-800x600.jpg
I used the calculator at
http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html
to decide where to stick the USB dongle through the side.

It needs to make a tight fit between the USB shield and the metal can.
later, I soldered a 10-24 nut to the can so I could mount it on a camera tripod,
but my friend got cable in the meantime, so that ended that quest.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> Foxybaby <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> > Thanks much for your reply.
> > I don't have a choice, money is tight and I got these two at an estate
> > sale for $1 each.
>
> It's easy enough to stick the USB dongle into the side of a coffee can.
> I theorized that two of the 2lb cans, soldered to make a longer can
> would be the good solution, but the "customer" said the single coffee can
> was better, because it didn't have such a narrow beam. He was just setting
> them on the back of a couch in the window, using pillows to clamp it into
> the right orientation to reach a router about a block away.
>
> Other ideas:
> http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/
>
> My coffeecantenna:
> http://www.rahul.net/dold/clarence/u...42-800x600.jpg
> I used the calculator at
> http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html
> to decide where to stick the USB dongle through the side.
>
> It needs to make a tight fit between the USB shield and the metal can.
> later, I soldered a 10-24 nut to the can so I could mount it on a camera tripod,
> but my friend got cable in the meantime, so that ended that quest.

So does it work very well with a dongle ?

Trying to use a plain USB dongle with a reflector has been less than satisfactory from my experience. The radiation pattern is very irregular. Just turning a dongle around in a reflector dish sees the gain go up and down.

I've got a spare Belkin adapter in a drawer and might give it a try.

Might get a better result by using a dongle with a dipole antenna and just drill a hole into side of can, insert dipole and strap dongle to exterior of can with a rubber band. Will give that a go.

Dr Who <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> So does it work very well with a dongle ?

I suppose that depends on your definition.

The two 2 lb cans gave better signal improvement, but the single 3 lb can
was more usable in the desired application.

> Trying to use a plain USB dongle with a reflector has been less than
> satisfactory from my experience. The radiation pattern is very irregular.
> Just turning a dongle around in a reflector dish sees the gain go up and
> down.

I think, when I was doing careful testing with Netstumbler, that I did see
a difference between front facing and rear facing in the can, but I forget.
I didn't try side facing.

I also tried a few woks and pie plates with various spacing of the dongle
from the reflector surface. I did some toying around with a used DirecTV
dish, but that was too much effort compared to the success of the coffee
can.


--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5