Home network shopping list needed

My current setup is three PC's (two upstairs, one down) networked by
standard cables to a standalone broadband modem/router with a 1meg
connection, which sits on top of the one downstairs.

But I need advice about what I want to do, which is to extend the network
availability out into a shed which I'm kitting out as a workshop.
I'd like to put four network access points in there. (The maximum number of
pc's that would be networked and connected to the internet at any one time
would be eight.)
If I kept the present set up as it is, would it be possible to link the four
in the shed together with a seperate router and connect that to the
modem/router in the house or does each seperate connection have to plug into
it's own port? If so, would I be better off just getting an eight port
modem/router?
The point here is that I want to keep the number of underground cables to a
minimum.

With regards to the cabling and socket plates etc, given that I want four
ports is it as easy as buying four face plates and enough cable? I realise
one end needs wiring into the back of the plate and the should end with a
rj45 connector but is that it? I've no problem with wiring as long as I have
clear instructions but I'm planning to avoid any crimping by getting pre cut
cables with connector already attached at one end.. (*IF* it's that easy!
I'm just looking for pointers as to exactly what I need to get really.

So is it that easy or am I missing alot...
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Cheers

Andy

rat wrote:
> My current setup is three PC's (two upstairs, one down) networked by
> standard cables to a standalone broadband modem/router with a 1meg
> connection, which sits on top of the one downstairs.
>
> But I need advice about what I want to do, which is to extend the network
> availability out into a shed which I'm kitting out as a workshop.
> I'd like to put four network access points in there. (The maximum number of
> pc's that would be networked and connected to the internet at any one time
> would be eight.)
> If I kept the present set up as it is, would it be possible to link the four
> in the shed together with a seperate router and connect that to the
> modem/router in the house or does each seperate connection have to plug into
> it's own port? If so, would I be better off just getting an eight port
> modem/router?

You don't need an extra router. It's allowable just to cascade ethernet
switches up to iirc 3 in series. If you want to keep things simple and
cheap, use a switch, if you need an extra subnet (which I doubt, unless
you want to be able to firewall off the shed!), use a router.

> The point here is that I want to keep the number of underground cables to a
> minimum.

Don't forget that while you can use a single wire to connect the shed
(whether you're using a switch or router), it will have to share its
bandwidth between all the machines on the end of it. If you run more
wires to a single big switch, the potentially available bandwidth will
be higher. This may or may not be an issue.

>
> With regards to the cabling and socket plates etc, given that I want four
> ports is it as easy as buying four face plates and enough cable? I realise
> one end needs wiring into the back of the plate and the should end with a
> rj45 connector but is that it? I've no problem with wiring as long as I have
> clear instructions but I'm planning to avoid any crimping by getting pre cut
> cables with connector already attached at one end.. (*IF* it's that easy!

Sockets have IDS connectors; plugs are crimped. IMO plugs on flying
leads emerging from the wall are cheap, easy and a Very Bad Idea - use a
plate and socket.

You might like to look at screwfix's range - they do a pack of correct
socket bits for a (slight) premium, and are generally cheap and good
quality. You can generally get two sockets on a single square faceplate.
Screwfix also have good prices on patch leads, btw.

> I'm just looking for pointers as to exactly what I need to get really.
>
> So is it that easy or am I missing alot...

The hard part is getting the pairings correct :-) *Write down* and
double-check the wiring colour codes and interconnections very clearly
before you start. BTW you can get some cheap-and-cheerful cable testers
off ebay, which check end-to-end continuity between sockets. Oh, and
get a decent IDS insertion tool (screwfix again!). It makes life much
easier.

"Mike Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:PZHid.45$(E-Mail Removed)...
> rat wrote:
>> My current setup is three PC's (two upstairs, one down) networked by
>> standard cables to a standalone broadband modem/router with a 1meg
>> connection, which sits on top of the one downstairs.
>>
>> But I need advice about what I want to do, which is to extend the network
>> availability out into a shed which I'm kitting out as a workshop.
>> I'd like to put four network access points in there. (The maximum number
>> of pc's that would be networked and connected to the internet at any one
>> time would be eight.)
>> If I kept the present set up as it is, would it be possible to link the
>> four in the shed together with a seperate router and connect that to the
>> modem/router in the house or does each seperate connection have to plug
>> into it's own port? If so, would I be better off just getting an eight
>> port modem/router?
>
> You don't need an extra router. It's allowable just to cascade ethernet
> switches up to iirc 3 in series. If you want to keep things simple and
> cheap, use a switch, if you need an extra subnet (which I doubt, unless
> you want to be able to firewall off the shed!), use a router.
>
>> The point here is that I want to keep the number of underground cables to
>> a minimum.
>
> Don't forget that while you can use a single wire to connect the shed
> (whether you're using a switch or router), it will have to share its
> bandwidth between all the machines on the end of it. If you run more
> wires to a single big switch, the potentially available bandwidth will be
> higher. This may or may not be an issue.
>
>>
>> With regards to the cabling and socket plates etc, given that I want four
>> ports is it as easy as buying four face plates and enough cable? I
>> realise one end needs wiring into the back of the plate and the should
>> end with a rj45 connector but is that it? I've no problem with wiring as
>> long as I have clear instructions but I'm planning to avoid any crimping
>> by getting pre cut cables with connector already attached at one end..
>> (*IF* it's that easy!
>
> Sockets have IDS connectors; plugs are crimped. IMO plugs on flying leads
> emerging from the wall are cheap, easy and a Very Bad Idea - use a plate
> and socket.
>
> You might like to look at screwfix's range - they do a pack of correct
> socket bits for a (slight) premium, and are generally cheap and good
> quality. You can generally get two sockets on a single square faceplate.
> Screwfix also have good prices on patch leads, btw.
>
>> I'm just looking for pointers as to exactly what I need to get really.
>>
>> So is it that easy or am I missing alot...
>
> The hard part is getting the pairings correct :-) *Write down* and
> double-check the wiring colour codes and interconnections very clearly
> before you start. BTW you can get some cheap-and-cheerful cable testers
> off ebay, which check end-to-end continuity between sockets. Oh, and get
> a decent IDS insertion tool (screwfix again!). It makes life much easier.



Thanks very much for your response Mike! much appreciated!

So have I got this right?
;-)
I keep the current set up as it is in the house. I can use a free port on
the modem/router in the house to run a single cable underground into the
shed and connect to a free port in a switch unit. I will have three wall
mounted sockets... but I'm a bit hazy on the wiring requirements... does
each seperate socket have to have its own cable ending in a plug into the
switch, or can I use a continuous cable to connect all three and end in a
single plug into the switch?

And my shopping list would be:
switch unit
3 wall mount socket plates with IDS connectors
enough cable depending on answer to above question
IDS insertion tool
cable tester (is this optional or recommended?)

The bandwidth issue would not really be a problem as there would only be one
pc on in the shed for the majority of the time.
Screwfix seem to be screwed up in a fix at the moment so I'll try Maplins or
ask in uac.
And thanks again for your help.

Cheers
Andy

rat wrote:
> "Mike Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:PZHid.45$(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> The bandwidth issue would not really be a problem as there would only be one
> pc on in the shed for the majority of the time.
> Screwfix seem to be screwed up in a fix at the moment so I'll try Maplins or
> ask in uac.
> And thanks again for your help.
>
> Cheers
> Andy
>
>

You will get everthing except the network switch in one kit from Maplin
or one of the larger B&Qs --- this inlcudes cable, wall boxes, patch
leads and the punch down tool.
Note you must use the correct tool to punch down the cables for the wall
box connectors (it need a tool with a thin metal blade -- a plastic DIY
telephone punch down tool won't work)

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 00:54:09 +0000 (UTC), "rat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>My current setup is three PC's (two upstairs, one down) networked by
>standard cables to a standalone broadband modem/router with a 1meg
>connection, which sits on top of the one downstairs.

Fair enough.
>
>But I need advice about what I want to do, which is to extend the network
>availability out into a shed which I'm kitting out as a workshop.
>I'd like to put four network access points in there. (The maximum number of
>pc's that would be networked and connected to the internet at any one time
>would be eight.)
>If I kept the present set up as it is, would it be possible to link the four
>in the shed together with a seperate router and connect that to the
>modem/router in the house or does each seperate connection have to plug into
>it's own port? If so, would I be better off just getting an eight port
>modem/router?

There are multiple options, you don't need to change the router as you
can get a switch and hang that off the router. You then need a cable
going from the router to the switch and then to the other PCS in the
shed. However, if you want to get rid of all these cables, why not
just use wireless (depending on how far the shed is away from the
house)?

Andrew.
--
Andrew Hodgson in Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK.
My Email: use <andrew at hodgsonfamily dot org>.

rat wrote:
> "Mike Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:PZHid.45$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>rat wrote:
>>
>>>My current setup is three PC's (two upstairs, one down) networked by
>>>standard cables to a standalone broadband modem/router with a 1meg
>>>connection, which sits on top of the one downstairs.
>>>
>>>But I need advice about what I want to do, which is to extend the network
>>>availability out into a shed which I'm kitting out as a workshop.
>>>I'd like to put four network access points in there. (The maximum number
>>>of pc's that would be networked and connected to the internet at any one
>>>time would be eight.)
>>>If I kept the present set up as it is, would it be possible to link the
>>>four in the shed together with a seperate router and connect that to the
>>>modem/router in the house or does each seperate connection have to plug
>>>into it's own port? If so, would I be better off just getting an eight
>>>port modem/router?
....
> So have I got this right?
> ;-)
> I keep the current set up as it is in the house. I can use a free port on
> the modem/router in the house to run a single cable underground into the
> shed and connect to a free port in a switch unit. I will have three wall
> mounted sockets... but I'm a bit hazy on the wiring requirements... does
> each seperate socket have to have its own cable ending in a plug into the
> switch, or can I use a continuous cable to connect all three and end in a
> single plug into the switch?


-----------
| |------------ PC1
| |----------------PC2
| |-------------------PC3 |-------------|
| router |------------------------.......----------| |
| | PC4-------| switch |
| | PC5-------| |
| | PC6-------|-------------|
-----------

Or something like that. Each output from the switch needs it own cable
and socket.

>
> And my shopping list would be:
> switch unit
> 3 wall mount socket plates with IDS connectors
> enough cable depending on answer to above question
> IDS insertion tool
> cable tester (is this optional or recommended?)

both :-) I did eventually manage to wire up a half doz outlets without
a tester; but one went wrong (duff insertion tool!), and it's useful to
know which wire to redo, rather than guessing which of 8 is faulty.
(Oh, btw, a 100Mb connection actually only uses 2 pairs; but they all
need connecting, and if an unused one is left dud, it'll bite you sooner
or later :-)


>
> The bandwidth issue would not really be a problem as there would only be one
> pc on in the shed for the majority of the time.
> Screwfix seem to be screwed up in a fix at the moment so I'll try Maplins or

Yes, Screwfix seem to have had problems since their new warehouse -
pity, as they've been cheap and reliable. Maplin can be expensive. Try
places like redstore, ebuyer or novatech for a switch (or even ebay)

> ask in uac.
> And thanks again for your help.

You're welcome.

>
> Cheers
> Andy
>
>

Andrew Hodgson wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 00:54:09 +0000 (UTC), "rat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>

>
>
> There are multiple options, you don't need to change the router as you
> can get a switch and hang that off the router. You then need a cable
> going from the router to the switch and then to the other PCS in the
> shed. However, if you want to get rid of all these cables, why not
> just use wireless (depending on how far the shed is away from the
> house)?
>
> Andrew.

More logical (simpler and cheaper) to put a router in the shed.

"Domminic Hyde" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:418d4900$0$27543$(E-Mail Removed)...
> rat wrote:
>> "Mike Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:PZHid.45$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>
>> The bandwidth issue would not really be a problem as there would only be
>> one pc on in the shed for the majority of the time.
>> Screwfix seem to be screwed up in a fix at the moment so I'll try Maplins
>> or ask in uac.
>> And thanks again for your help.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Andy
>
> You will get everthing except the network switch in one kit from Maplin or
> one of the larger B&Qs --- this inlcudes cable, wall boxes, patch leads
> and the punch down tool.
> Note you must use the correct tool to punch down the cables for the wall
> box connectors (it need a tool with a thin metal blade -- a plastic DIY
> telephone punch down tool won't work)

Thanks Dominic, I'll take a look.

I've already bought the IDC insertor on ebay (only to find a bit further on
that I could have got one free with one or more wall sockets!! Doh!), and I
fully intend to get the real thing for a crimper as it will be much needed
in the future anyway.

Cheers
Andy
>

"Mike Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:h1sjd.638$(E-Mail Removed)...
> rat wrote:
>> "Mike Scott" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:PZHid.45$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>
>>>rat wrote:
>>>
>>>>My current setup is three PC's (two upstairs, one down) networked by
>>>>standard cables to a standalone broadband modem/router with a 1meg
>>>>connection, which sits on top of the one downstairs.
>>>>
>>>>But I need advice about what I want to do, which is to extend the
>>>>network availability out into a shed which I'm kitting out as a
>>>>workshop.
>>>>I'd like to put four network access points in there. (The maximum number
>>>>of pc's that would be networked and connected to the internet at any one
>>>>time would be eight.)
>>>>If I kept the present set up as it is, would it be possible to link the
>>>>four in the shed together with a seperate router and connect that to the
>>>>modem/router in the house or does each seperate connection have to plug
>>>>into it's own port? If so, would I be better off just getting an eight
>>>>port modem/router?
> ...
>> So have I got this right?
>> ;-)
>> I keep the current set up as it is in the house. I can use a free port on
>> the modem/router in the house to run a single cable underground into the
>> shed and connect to a free port in a switch unit. I will have three wall
>> mounted sockets... but I'm a bit hazy on the wiring requirements... does
>> each seperate socket have to have its own cable ending in a plug into the
>> switch, or can I use a continuous cable to connect all three and end in a
>> single plug into the switch?
>
>
> -----------
> | |------------ PC1
> | |----------------PC2
> | |-------------------PC3 |-------------|
> | router |------------------------.......----------| |
> | | PC4-------| switch |
> | | PC5-------| |
> | | PC6-------|-------------|
> -----------
>
> Or something like that. Each output from the switch needs it own cable and
> socket.
>
>>
>> And my shopping list would be:
>> switch unit
>> 3 wall mount socket plates with IDS connectors
>> enough cable depending on answer to above question
>> IDS insertion tool
>> cable tester (is this optional or recommended?)
>
> both :-) I did eventually manage to wire up a half doz outlets without a
> tester; but one went wrong (duff insertion tool!), and it's useful to know
> which wire to redo, rather than guessing which of 8 is faulty. (Oh, btw, a
> 100Mb connection actually only uses 2 pairs; but they all need connecting,
> and if an unused one is left dud, it'll bite you sooner or later :-)
>
>
>>
>> The bandwidth issue would not really be a problem as there would only be
>> one pc on in the shed for the majority of the time.
>> Screwfix seem to be screwed up in a fix at the moment so I'll try Maplins
>> or
>
> Yes, Screwfix seem to have had problems since their new warehouse - pity,
> as they've been cheap and reliable. Maplin can be expensive. Try places
> like redstore, ebuyer or novatech for a switch (or even ebay)
>
>> ask in uac.
>> And thanks again for your help.
>
> You're welcome.
>
>>



Again thanks Mike, you've been an ultra helpful fella.
One more thing though...(you knew it was coming...;-) concerning the
switch.
In my current setup, the main pc is connected to the adsl modem/router by
ethernet and usb and is used to access the configuration panel, but the
modem sits on top of the pc so its no problem. However, out in the shed I
want to fix the switch up on the wall by the door. Do I actually need to
have a usb connection into a switch from the pc that will configure it or
does a switch sort itself out?

;-)
cheers

"rat" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:cmose6$564$(E-Mail Removed)...
> In my current setup, the main pc is connected to the adsl modem/router by
> ethernet and usb and is used to access the configuration panel, but the
> modem sits on top of the pc so its no problem. However, out in the shed I
> want to fix the switch up on the wall by the door. Do I actually need to
> have a usb connection into a switch from the pc that will configure it or
> does a switch sort itself out?

Basic switches (all you need) are unmanaged; no configuration is needed, or
in fact, possible. Real "Plug and Play". Or at least it would be, were it
not for dodgy connections in the plugs/sockets/etc .

Alex