Home-built "NAS" (okay, web server) - ISP threat?

I searched quite a bit and could not find a better place to post this
question...if there is a more appropriate group, please let me know.

I'm experimenting with a home-based web server running Linux of
course. I got it running, via redirection to a port other than 80
(which my ISP blocks for outgoing, since they don't want people
running web servers on their "cheap" broadband plan...they want you to
upgrade to a commercial plan).

All I want to do is mimic the function of those new NAS devices, like
the "buffalo linkstation live".

I was wondering, if ISPs don't have a problem with folks installing a
NAS device, is it because the device presents itself in a different
manner? For example, if an ISP performs a port scan on your IP
address, will that NAS device return an HTTP response -- or something
else?

And, if it's something else -- and the ISP is "okay" with that -- is
there a way for me to make my Apache server appear the same way to the
ISP?

I'm just trying to keep from being noticed by my ISP...and I'm not
doing anything traffic-wise that's dissimilar to one of those simple
NAS devices, so I'm not trying to cheat the ISP out of any of their
precious bandwidth, either (!)

Thanks,
Randy

On Oct 8, 5:52 am, Randy Brick MacKenna <randymacke...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> All I want to do is mimic the function of those new NAS devices, like
> the "buffalo linkstation live".

Can you be just a bit more specific? What are you actually trying to
do?

DS

Randy Brick MacKenna <(E-Mail Removed)> writes:

>I searched quite a bit and could not find a better place to post this
>question...if there is a more appropriate group, please let me know.

>I'm experimenting with a home-based web server running Linux of
>course. I got it running, via redirection to a port other than 80
>(which my ISP blocks for outgoing, since they don't want people
>running web servers on their "cheap" broadband plan...they want you to
>upgrade to a commercial plan).

I think you mean they block it on ingoing since otherwise noone would be
able to surf the web.


>All I want to do is mimic the function of those new NAS devices, like
>the "buffalo linkstation live".

No idea what that is or what a NAS is.



>I was wondering, if ISPs don't have a problem with folks installing a
>NAS device, is it because the device presents itself in a different
>manner? For example, if an ISP performs a port scan on your IP
>address, will that NAS device return an HTTP response -- or something
>else?

Try it
telnet name.of.machine port
where port is the port number you are using. See what it returns.


>And, if it's something else -- and the ISP is "okay" with that -- is
>there a way for me to make my Apache server appear the same way to the
>ISP?

IF your terms of contract forbid you from running a web server, then it
does not matter on which port that is. Read your contract.



>I'm just trying to keep from being noticed by my ISP...and I'm not

Having huge uploads on your system will probably be enough to get you
noticed.

>doing anything traffic-wise that's dissimilar to one of those simple
>NAS devices, so I'm not trying to cheat the ISP out of any of their
>precious bandwidth, either (!)

Not sure how the second part of the sentence relates to the first.


Note:
Your server will be very slow. Up bandwidth is typically 1/10 of down.



>Thanks,
>Randy

On Oct 8, 11:01 am, David Schwartz <dav...@webmaster.com> wrote:
> On Oct 8, 5:52 am, Randy Brick MacKenna <randymacke...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > All I want to do is mimic the function of those new NAS devices, like
> > the "buffalo linkstation live".
>
> Can you be just a bit more specific? What are you actually trying to
> do?
>
> DS

Sure. I'm actually doing exactly what I wish to do -- I have a Linux
box set up in my basement, running Apache2, listening on port 38404 --
and I have my DNS service (GoDaddy) redirecting requests to my website
to x.x.x.x:38404

Everything is good...I am running a web server out of my house.

BUT, I hear horror stories about people getting hate mail from their
ISP, threatening to shut them down for running HTTP traffic on what is
supposed to be a "web surfing" connection.

So, I am just trying to understand how the ISP views a device like a
Buffalo Linkstation Live. And, if that kind of device is "okay" with
them -- my simple web server should likewise be "okay".

I think one interesting test would be to port-scan my IP addressort
and compare it to a port scan of someone with a Linkstation. I have a
friend who has a Linkstation sitting on his residential IP address --
but I can't find an online port scan service that actually works.

-Randy

On Oct 8, 11:24 am, Unruh <unruh-s...@physics.ubc.ca> wrote:
> Randy Brick MacKenna <randymacke...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >I searched quite a bit and could not find a better place to post this
> >question...if there is a more appropriate group, please let me know.
> >I'm experimenting with a home-based web server running Linux of
> >course. I got it running, via redirection to a port other than 80
> >(which my ISP blocks for outgoing, since they don't want people
> >running web servers on their "cheap" broadband plan...they want you to
> >upgrade to a commercial plan).
>
> I think you mean they block it on ingoing since otherwise noone would be
> able to surf the web.
>
> >All I want to do is mimic the function of those new NAS devices, like
> >the "buffalo linkstation live".
>
> No idea what that is or what a NAS is.
>
> >I was wondering, if ISPs don't have a problem with folks installing a
> >NAS device, is it because the device presents itself in a different
> >manner? For example, if an ISP performs a port scan on your IP
> >address, will that NAS device return an HTTP response -- or something
> >else?
>
> Try it
> telnet name.of.machine port
> where port is the port number you are using. See what it returns.
>
> >And, if it's something else -- and the ISP is "okay" with that -- is
> >there a way for me to make my Apache server appear the same way to the
> >ISP?
>
> IF your terms of contract forbid you from running a web server, then it
> does not matter on which port that is. Read your contract.
>
> >I'm just trying to keep from being noticed by my ISP...and I'm not
>
> Having huge uploads on your system will probably be enough to get you
> noticed.
>
> >doing anything traffic-wise that's dissimilar to one of those simple
> >NAS devices, so I'm not trying to cheat the ISP out of any of their
> >precious bandwidth, either (!)
>
> Not sure how the second part of the sentence relates to the first.
>
> Note:
> Your server will be very slow. Up bandwidth is typically 1/10 of down.
>
> >Thanks,
> >Randy

Thanks...Telnet times out...

a 'NAS' is "Network Attached Storage" -- basically a hard drive with
an IP address. Buffalo sells one with an integrated web server, and
they provide DNS/URL redirection from their website:

http://www.buffalotech.com/technolog...gy/web-access/

If ISPs are okay with this kind of device/service on a residential
connection, then I want to look as similar to this as possible, that's
why I starting asking. Like I said, perhaps a port scan comparison
would settle the question...

-Randy

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:29:10 -0700, Randy Brick MacKenna wrote:

> but I can't find an online port scan service that actually works.
>
> -Randy
try installing and using nmap ...... far better than any online service.

On 2007-10-08, nunya <business@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:29:10 -0700, Randy Brick MacKenna wrote:
>
>> but I can't find an online port scan service that actually works.
>
> try installing and using nmap ...... far better than any online service.

....except that installing nmap locally may produce different results
than a site online.

My favorite is http://www.derkeiler.com/Service/PortScan/ . It
basically runs nmap and displays the results; no dumbing-down of the
output.

--keith


--
kkeller-(E-Mail Removed)
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
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On 2007-10-08, Randy Brick MacKenna <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> So, I am just trying to understand how the ISP views a device like a
> Buffalo Linkstation Live. And, if that kind of device is "okay" with
> them -- my simple web server should likewise be "okay".

It has nothing to do with the device. If they see HTTP traffic going to
your network, they might get suspicious, no matter if it's a Buffalo
Linkstation Live or a cargo container of Blades. This traffic is
trivial for your ISP to sniff, and if they want to find you they will.

--keith

--
kkeller-(E-Mail Removed)
(try just my userid to email me)
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On Oct 8, 1:26 pm, Keith Keller <kkeller-use...@wombat.san-
francisco.ca.us> wrote:
> On 2007-10-08, Randy Brick MacKenna <randymacke...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > So, I am just trying to understand how the ISP views a device like a
> > Buffalo Linkstation Live. And, if that kind of device is "okay" with
> > them -- my simple web server should likewise be "okay".
>
> It has nothing to do with the device. If they see HTTP traffic going to
> your network, they might get suspicious, no matter if it's a Buffalo
> Linkstation Live or a cargo container of Blades. This traffic is
> trivial for your ISP to sniff, and if they want to find you they will.
>
> --keith
>
> --
> kkeller-use...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
> (try just my userid to email me)
> AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
> see X- headers for PGP signature information

Very true. I just figured that if folks are buying devices like the
linkstation, and I have yet to hear of anyone being asked to cease
using one on a residential broadband service, then maybe the ISPs are
becoming more relaxed about who they go after if they sniff HTTP out
of an IP address on their network.

Once they "find" me, all they'd have to do is key the ip addressort
into their browser and they'd see that Randy is just sharing photos of
the family picnic -- not running a music download service or a
competitor to amazon.com

I'll try the nmap thing when I get home...looks like it will answer my
question about my computers appearance on the network.

Thanks,
Randy

On 2007-10-08, Randy Brick MacKenna <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Oct 8, 1:26 pm, Keith Keller <kkeller-use...@wombat.san-
> francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>
>> It has nothing to do with the device. If they see HTTP traffic going to
>> your network, they might get suspicious, no matter if it's a Buffalo
>> Linkstation Live or a cargo container of Blades. This traffic is
>> trivial for your ISP to sniff, and if they want to find you they will.
>
> Very true. I just figured that if folks are buying devices

It Has Nothing To Do With The Device (TM).

> like the
> linkstation, and I have yet to hear of anyone being asked to cease
> using one on a residential broadband service, then maybe the ISPs are
> becoming more relaxed about who they go after if they sniff HTTP out
> of an IP address on their network.

It varies wildly from ISP to ISP. Some are utterly paranoid and
ruthless about rogue daemons running on their network in violation of
their TOS. Others only use rogue daemons when they want to kick
somebody off for other (possibly related) reasons.

> Once they "find" me, all they'd have to do is key the ip addressort
> into their browser and they'd see that Randy is just sharing photos of
> the family picnic -- not running a music download service or a
> competitor to amazon.com

Again, it depends on the ISP. If they really care about enforcing their
TOS, they won't care that you're running a two-bit picture site, they'll
boot you anyway. If they don't care, you're probably fine. Only you can
decide if you're safe running the risk that your ISP will come after you.

--keith

--
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