Helping someone get connected to Virgin Media

I'm having some trouble helping my brother get connected with Virgin
Media. Part of the problem is that he knows virtually nothing about
computers or networking, and I can't see what he is doing since he is in
Scotland, and I'm in Norway.

He has just bought a Linksys AM200 ADSL modem with a firewall/router (I
won't let him use the Speedtouch USB modem - he has a windows PC, so it
needs a proper external firewall). I am having great difficulty finding
out the technical details needed to connect to Virgin Media. Am I
correct in thinking that it uses PPPoA ? Is there any other
configuration needed, other than the username (e.g.
(E-Mail Removed)) and password? We don't use PPPoA in Norway
(I don't think many countries do), so I am not familiar with the
settings needed. And with PPPoA, should he get a solid DSL light on the
modem even if the PPPoA settings (or username) are wrong?

Thanks for any help or pointers,

David

David Brown wrote:

> He has just bought a Linksys AM200 ADSL modem with a firewall/router (I
> won't let him use the Speedtouch USB modem - he has a windows PC, so it
> needs a proper external firewall).

On exactly what basis do you make that statement ?

Graham

Eeyore wrote:
>
> David Brown wrote:
>
>> He has just bought a Linksys AM200 ADSL modem with a firewall/router (I
>> won't let him use the Speedtouch USB modem - he has a windows PC, so it
>> needs a proper external firewall).
>
> On exactly what basis do you make that statement ?
>

The windows firewall (or even third-party software firewalls on windows)
are not exactly renowned for their effectiveness as secure firewalls.
such software firewalls are better than nothing, and can give useful
benefits (like controlling which applications can access the net), but
they are not nearly solid enough to be your only defence on a windows
machine. In particular, it is irresponsible to leave a windows machine
in the hands of a newbie with nothing but the windows firewall (or
Norton, or whatever) as protection - users regularly turn off such
software firewalls accidentally because they get in the way of using the
machine, and they don't know how to configure them properly. With an
external firewall, I can be confident that nothing comes into his
machine from the outside unless it comes through downloads or email (and
a decent browser and email program helps there).

So given the requirement of using a firewall external to the windows
machine, a USB modem is useless.

David Brown wrote:
> I'm having some trouble helping my brother get connected with Virgin
> Media. Part of the problem is that he knows virtually nothing about
> computers or networking, and I can't see what he is doing since he is in
> Scotland, and I'm in Norway.
>
> He has just bought a Linksys AM200 ADSL modem with a firewall/router (I
> won't let him use the Speedtouch USB modem - he has a windows PC, so it
> needs a proper external firewall). I am having great difficulty finding
> out the technical details needed to connect to Virgin Media. Am I
> correct in thinking that it uses PPPoA ? Is there any other
> configuration needed, other than the username (e.g.
> (E-Mail Removed)) and password? We don't use PPPoA in Norway
> (I don't think many countries do), so I am not familiar with the
> settings needed. And with PPPoA, should he get a solid DSL light on the
> modem even if the PPPoA settings (or username) are wrong?
>
> Thanks for any help or pointers,
>
> David

It turns out that the problem was with Virgin Media - they were having
problems with many peoples connections at the time when we were trying
to get things set up.

Incidentally, does anyone know *why* an ISP would want to use PPPoA ?
As far as I can see, PPPoA and PPPoE just add extra complications (such
as MTU changes) and encapsulation overhead.

David Brown wrote:

> Incidentally, does anyone know *why* an ISP would want to use PPPoA ?

*An* ISP ? I thought it was UK wide. Possibly something to do with BT's sytems
architecture ?

Graham

Hi,

One or two ISP's in the UK do use PPPoE, AOL is the classic example for ease
of use with their internal networks.

You may find that a specific BT line might support PPPoE or PPPoA depending
on the history of useage on that line and the profile applied to it. Most
AOL configured lines support both.

In the UK we ended up largely with PPPoA over POTS, in contrast Germany
ended up with PPPoE over ISDN which BT claim was impossible to impliment
until germany did it.

I am sure there must be an explination somewhere of why PPPoA was chosen
however I suspect it was because BT had/had an existing ATM network
infrastructure on it's internal networks.

Kind Regards

Simon

Simon Zerafa wrote:
> Hi,
>
> One or two ISP's in the UK do use PPPoE, AOL is the classic example for ease
> of use with their internal networks.
>
> You may find that a specific BT line might support PPPoE or PPPoA depending
> on the history of useage on that line and the profile applied to it. Most
> AOL configured lines support both.
>
> In the UK we ended up largely with PPPoA over POTS, in contrast Germany
> ended up with PPPoE over ISDN which BT claim was impossible to impliment
> until germany did it.
>
> I am sure there must be an explination somewhere of why PPPoA was chosen
> however I suspect it was because BT had/had an existing ATM network
> infrastructure on it's internal networks.
>

From the bit of googling I've done, it looks like PPPoA makes it a
little easier for the telephone company to multiplex the traffic with
other telephone services. Both PPPoA and PPPoE are point-to-point
tunnels, and let the ISP use the same sorts of systems for accounting as
they used to with dial-up modems. But there really isn't any good
reason for them not to use bridged Ethernet connections, which are much
simpler and more reliable for the customer. There are no technical
reasons to use a PPPoX protocol - here in Norway, all the local lines
are owned by TeleNor (our "BT"), but while some ISPs use PPPoA, most use
bridged Ethernet.

The only reason I can find for using PPPoX instead of bridged Ethernet
is that it might be a little easier for the ISP to track your usage, so
that they can then throttle your usage when you actually dare to use the
advertised (and paid for!) bandwidth. Thus you, the customer, get the
added complications and overheads, instead of the ISP.

Here in Norway, if someone gets an ADSL connection from a decent ISP,
the setup consists of plugging in the ADSL modem, plugging in the
firewall/router (actually, these are often the same box these days),
then plugging in the computer. No setup, no usernames or passwords, no
hardware compatibility issues, no half-wits on a telephone "support"
line telling you they've never heard of this "Leenux" program.

mvh.,

David

On 23 May 2007, David Brown <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>No setup, no usernames or passwords, ...

so no way to switch from one service to another. On some UK lines more than
one service is available (for example, there is currently a trial in progress
with one ISP where users can enter different username/password combinations
to select whether they use the 'standard' connection or the 'trial' service).
Also, for speed test purposes there is a BT Wholesale account for use from
any line which dates back to the initial situation of a BT engineer visit
which would check the connection and then leave in the hands of the user
whose router would need an ISP username/password to connect.

While what you have may be less problematic for some things, it might also be
less flexible. For example, where different ISP accounts may have different
profiles it might be the case that two households could swap identities for
a brief period to carry out tests. It would not be possible with whatever
is used in Norway, AFAICS. (For example, when I was using a specific ISP
I was able to swap username/password in two routers, one here, one at my
sister's home, so I took on her account allowances {hers is very light
use} such that I didn't exceed my monthly traffic limit and incur the
extra fee that our ISP would charge... it was for a few days and clearly
isn't an option if there is no username/password login involved.

NoNeedToKnow wrote:
> On 23 May 2007, David Brown <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> No setup, no usernames or passwords, ...
>
> so no way to switch from one service to another. On some UK lines more than
> one service is available (for example, there is currently a trial in progress
> with one ISP where users can enter different username/password combinations
> to select whether they use the 'standard' connection or the 'trial' service).
> Also, for speed test purposes there is a BT Wholesale account for use from
> any line which dates back to the initial situation of a BT engineer visit
> which would check the connection and then leave in the hands of the user
> whose router would need an ISP username/password to connect.
>
> While what you have may be less problematic for some things, it might also be
> less flexible. For example, where different ISP accounts may have different
> profiles it might be the case that two households could swap identities for
> a brief period to carry out tests. It would not be possible with whatever
> is used in Norway, AFAICS. (For example, when I was using a specific ISP
> I was able to swap username/password in two routers, one here, one at my
> sister's home, so I took on her account allowances {hers is very light
> use} such that I didn't exceed my monthly traffic limit and incur the
> extra fee that our ISP would charge... it was for a few days and clearly
> isn't an option if there is no username/password login involved.

Without any identification other than the telephone line, then there is
no way to swap services without using a different line. I must admit
that it never occurred to me that anyone would want to do that - it is
quite possible to change ISP here in Norway, but you can't swap back and
forth between two on the same line but with different settings.

The reasons you gave for wanting to swap don't really apply in Norway -
I don't know off-hand of any ISP that caps download traffic with monthly
allowances, nor do they use throttling for high-bandwidth customers. We
don't have the same level of cut-price competition as you do in the UK,
so even the cheapest ISPs can afford to give you a decent service - if
you pay £20 a month for a 1.5 Mbps download, that's what you get, and
you can expect to get close to that rating even during peak hours.

Regarding testing, there is no problem for a telephone engineer to
connect an ADSL modem to a line and check its speed independently of the
ISP - TeleNor (our "BT") simply disables the routing of the traffic
between the ISP and that line during testing. It's all automated, and
done in a few minutes.

mvh.,

David