Help with wireless kit selection

I have been asked to install a network to allow the sharing of a BB
connection. There would be two computers, one in the main house and one in a
garage loft (office convertion) just under 100m away from the other. I'm
looking for suggestions for kit to use. (ISP is not important right now).
The link needs to be wireless and on a fairly small budget, (£150 ish). No
need for fancy routers with VPN tunneling.

So can anyone suggest anything. Email for more info if needed.

Many thanks

David

"David Allen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:42487402$0$8741$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I have been asked to install a network to allow the sharing of a BB
> connection. There would be two computers, one in the main house and one in
a
> garage loft (office convertion) just under 100m away from the other. I'm
> looking for suggestions for kit to use. (ISP is not important right now).
> The link needs to be wireless and on a fairly small budget, (£150 ish). No
> need for fancy routers with VPN tunneling.
>
> So can anyone suggest anything.

My gf's dad has just bought a D-Link DSL-904 wireless router and wireless
USB adapter set. A great bit of kit for the price. After seeing it I'm gonna
buy one tomorrow.

You can get it from Ebuyer for £67.67 inc vat and standard delivery @
http://tinyurl.com/6tmdh

At the moment PC World are doing it in-store for £69.99 but only until
tomorrow, and only if you take along the advert (or voucher as thy call it)
thats been in the papers.

Russell

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Russell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> "David Allen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:42487402$0$8741$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I have been asked to install a network to allow the sharing of a BB
>> connection. There would be two computers, one in the main house and
>> one in a garage loft (office convertion) just under 100m away from
>> the other. I'm looking for suggestions for kit to use. (ISP is not
>> important right now). The link needs to be wireless and on a fairly
>> small budget, (£150 ish). No need for fancy routers with VPN
>> tunneling.
>>
>> So can anyone suggest anything.
>
> My gf's dad has just bought a D-Link DSL-904 wireless router and
> wireless USB adapter set. A great bit of kit for the price. After
> seeing it I'm gonna buy one tomorrow.
>
> You can get it from Ebuyer for £67.67 inc vat and standard delivery @
> http://tinyurl.com/6tmdh
>
> At the moment PC World are doing it in-store for £69.99 but only until
> tomorrow, and only if you take along the advert (or voucher as thy
> call it) thats been in the papers.
>
> Russell


How well is this likely to work over a distance of 100 metres?
--
Cheers,
Tim
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

[snip]
Depending on the walls etc, 100m is quite some distance for simple
off-the-shelf kit. However if both ends of the link have aerials connected
by screw-in connectors (I want to say D-connectors but that may not be the
correct name), then you can buy better, directional aerials that will
increase your range.

FYI, 30 miles (sic) is possible with the correct kit, good parabolic dishes
etc. but you'll just need something a little less impressive. Of course you
won't be able to connect "behind" the antenna, but providing you want a
straight line-of-site connection, you'll be sorted.

OTOH, exterior grade CAT.5 cable is relatively cheap so perhaps you might
want to consider a long cable between the two buildings - providing it's all
over you land of course.

Paul DS.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:43:15 +0100, "Tiscali Tim" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
>Russell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> "David Allen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:42487402$0$8741$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> I have been asked to install a network to allow the sharing of a BB
>>> connection. There would be two computers, one in the main house and
>>> one in a garage loft (office convertion) just under 100m away from
>>> the other. I'm looking for suggestions for kit to use. (ISP is not
>>> important right now). The link needs to be wireless and on a fairly
>>> small budget, (£150 ish). No need for fancy routers with VPN
>>> tunneling.
>>>
>>> So can anyone suggest anything.
>>
>> My gf's dad has just bought a D-Link DSL-904 wireless router and
>> wireless USB adapter set. A great bit of kit for the price. After
>> seeing it I'm gonna buy one tomorrow.
>>
>> You can get it from Ebuyer for £67.67 inc vat and standard delivery @
>> http://tinyurl.com/6tmdh
>>
>> At the moment PC World are doing it in-store for £69.99 but only until
>> tomorrow, and only if you take along the advert (or voucher as thy
>> call it) thats been in the papers.
>>
>> Russell
>
>
>How well is this likely to work over a distance of 100 metres?

Not very.

If you have the router in a room next to the outside wall in one
building, and the PC with the adapter in a room next to the facing
outside wall in the other building, and there are no trees or other
obstructions in between, then it will probably work when the weather
is fine.

According to the manual
<ftp://ftp.dlink.co.uk/dsl_routers_modems/dsl-g604t/dsl-g604t_man_v1.pdf>,
it has a range of up to 100M indoors, 300M outdoors, but that 300M
means with *nothing* between them, and is the absolute maximum you can
expect in perfect conditions.

Neither the router nor the adapter appear to have detachable antennae,
so it might not be easy to replace with better ones.

This router also appears to be one of the least secure you can buy :-(
It does not have an SPI firewall (in spite of what I said a few
minutes ago in another thread), and although it has 128-bit WEP or WPA
encryption, it cannot hide SSID, so anybody nearby with a wireless
enabled device can tell that you have a network.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Make Headlines..use a corduroy pillow....

To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> Neither the router nor the adapter appear to have detachable
> antennae, so it might not be easy to replace with better ones.

The DSL-G604T has a Reverse SMA antenna connector. It is supplied
with a stock 2dBi antenna, but you can fit a higher gain antenna as
required.

> This router also appears to be one of the least secure you can buy
> :-( It does not have an SPI firewall (in spite of what I said a
> few minutes ago in another thread),,,

Yes it does, although it it not particularly visible from the (IMO)
very confused web-based config. The device is based on the TI AR7
communications processor running MontaVista Linux + Busybox, the same
as the Netgear DG834G.

> ...and although it has 128-bit
> WEP or WPA encryption, it cannot hide SSID, so anybody nearby with
> a wireless enabled device can tell that you have a network.

Yes, it can disable SSID broadcast.

You are indeed correct that "anybody nearby ... can tell that you
have a network". This is of course true of *any* access point,
whether or not there is a facility (attempt?) to disable SSID
broadcast since the SSID is *always* transmitted in certain frames.
The SSID is intended to be broadcast, and 'hiding' it is (a)
impossible (b) not a security measure. This topic has been discussed
at length in this and other forums. But if it makes you feel better,
go ahead...

The DSL-G604T is no less secure than any other device with WPA and
WPA-PSK using RC4 encryption. The TI AR7 has hardware support for AES
encryption, and I believe that a firmware upgrade to support this
function is due. But D-Link is not always known for the speed of its
firmware releases...

Kind regards

--

Richard Perkin
To email me, change the AT in the address below
richard.perkinATmyrealbox.com

It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's.
It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News

"Tiscali Tim" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> Russell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> "David Allen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:42487402$0$8741$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> I have been asked to install a network to allow the sharing of a
>>> BB connection. There would be two computers, one in the main
>>> house and one in a garage loft (office convertion) just under
>>> 100m away from the other. I'm looking for suggestions for kit to
>>> use. (ISP is not important right now). The link needs to be
>>> wireless and on a fairly small budget, (£150 ish). No need for
>>> fancy routers with VPN tunneling.
>>>
>>> So can anyone suggest anything.
>>
>> My gf's dad has just bought a D-Link DSL-904 wireless router and
>> wireless USB adapter set. A great bit of kit for the price. After
>> seeing it I'm gonna buy one tomorrow.
>>
>> You can get it from Ebuyer for £67.67 inc vat and standard
>> delivery @ http://tinyurl.com/6tmdh
>>
>> At the moment PC World are doing it in-store for £69.99 but only
>> until tomorrow, and only if you take along the advert (or voucher
>> as thy call it) thats been in the papers.
>>
>> Russell
>
>
> How well is this likely to work over a distance of 100 metres?

Unlikely without some assistance. Whatever router you buy, the likely
best solution for the wireless link between the two buildings is a
wireless bridge, using a mating pair of multi-mode access points
configured in Brisge mode. To cover this distance you will likely
need to use directional antennae at each end, positioned in line-of-
sight. If you like D-Link kit, the DWL-2100AP will work just fine.

However, you may get lucky if you have line-of-sight between two
windows. Place a wireless router in one window, and a multi-mode
access point configured in Wireless Client mode in the other window.
It may work without higher gain antennae, but medium gain directional
panel antennae are not too expensive...

If you do set up a wireless bridge with a pair of devices using
replacement antennae, you are likely to exceed your budget unless you
buy on eBay...

Hope this helps

--

Richard Perkin
To email me, change the AT in the address below
richard.perkinATmyrealbox.com

It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's.
It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News

On 29 Mar 2005 22:52:23 GMT, Richard Perkin <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Alex Heney <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:(E-Mail Removed) :
>
>> Neither the router nor the adapter appear to have detachable
>> antennae, so it might not be easy to replace with better ones.
>
>The DSL-G604T has a Reverse SMA antenna connector. It is supplied
>with a stock 2dBi antenna, but you can fit a higher gain antenna as
>required.
>
>> This router also appears to be one of the least secure you can buy
>> :-( It does not have an SPI firewall (in spite of what I said a
>> few minutes ago in another thread),,,
>
>Yes it does, although it it not particularly visible from the (IMO)
>very confused web-based config. The device is based on the TI AR7
>communications processor running MontaVista Linux + Busybox, the same
>as the Netgear DG834G.
>

You obviously know the machine better than I do, since I have never
seen or attempted to configure one, only read the manual.

But I'm surprised the manual makes no mention of it, and only mentions
being able to turn on/off the firewall and NAT together.

>> ...and although it has 128-bit
>> WEP or WPA encryption, it cannot hide SSID, so anybody nearby with
>> a wireless enabled device can tell that you have a network.
>
>Yes, it can disable SSID broadcast.
>

Again, not according to the manual. Who writes these things?

>You are indeed correct that "anybody nearby ... can tell that you
>have a network". This is of course true of *any* access point,
>whether or not there is a facility (attempt?) to disable SSID
>broadcast

Not quite true. When I said Anybody with a wireless enabled device,
that is what I meant.

To be able to see it with SSID disabled, you need more than just "any"
wireless device. You either need to know the SSID, or you need to have
a device specifically set up to look for the "hidden" SSIDs.

>since the SSID is *always* transmitted in certain frames.
>The SSID is intended to be broadcast, and 'hiding' it is (a)
>impossible (b) not a security measure. This topic has been discussed
>at length in this and other forums. But if it makes you feel better,
>go ahead...
>

I agree that it doesn't provide much protection at all against a
"serious" hacker. But it stops the opportunists from seeing the
network and just trying things to see if they can get in.


>The DSL-G604T is no less secure than any other device with WPA and
>WPA-PSK using RC4 encryption. The TI AR7 has hardware support for AES
>encryption, and I believe that a firmware upgrade to support this
>function is due. But D-Link is not always known for the speed of its
>firmware releases...
>

And it would appear not for the quality of its manuals :-(
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Make Headlines..use a corduroy pillow....

To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

Alex Heney <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

> On 29 Mar 2005 22:52:23 GMT, Richard Perkin
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> To be able to see it with SSID disabled, you need more than just
> "any" wireless device. You either need to know the SSID, or you
> need to have a device specifically set up to look for the "hidden"
> SSIDs.

> I agree that it doesn't provide much protection at all against a
> "serious" hacker. But it stops the opportunists from seeing the
> network and just trying things to see if they can get in.

At best, it provides 'security by obscurity'. And the only reason it
provides even that trivial protection is that the tools (together with
the correct wireless card drivers) which run under Windows to reveal
'hidden' SSIDs are not widely distributed. If they were, you can bet
that this so-called 'security' feature would rapidly be dismissed as
the myth that it is.

>>... But D-Link is not always known for the speed
>>of its firmware releases...
> And it would appear not for the quality of its manuals :-(

Indeed. IMNSHO they are best described by the acrynym: PoS

Kind regards

PS: You're a long way from UKLM and UKL ?

--

Richard Perkin
To email me, change the AT in the address below
richard.perkinATmyrealbox.com

It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you mean it
is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers. It isn't her's.
It isn't our's either. It's ours, and likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News

On 30 Mar 2005 10:15:04 GMT, Richard Perkin <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Alex Heney <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:(E-Mail Removed) :
>
>> On 29 Mar 2005 22:52:23 GMT, Richard Perkin
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
<snip>
>>>... But D-Link is not always known for the speed
>>>of its firmware releases...
>> And it would appear not for the quality of its manuals :-(
>
>Indeed. IMNSHO they are best described by the acrynym: PoS
>

There are too many manufacturers who seem to do user guides as an
afterthought. Don't they realise that it will put people off using
their equipment if the user cannot easily find out how to do things
with it?

>Kind regards
>
>PS: You're a long way from UKLM and UKL ?

I currently have 22 groups in my main subscribed list. Where I'm most
active varies over time :-)

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Waiter, there's no fly in my soup! - Kermit

To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom