Help! Wireless connection repeatedly dropping

Ok, here is the situation: One wireless laptop (XP Home SP2), the rest
of the workstations are wired. Brand new Linksys WRT54G router and
Linksys Wireless G Network card. Very very simple set up that I have
done dozens of times before. The signal at the wireless user's desk is
excellent.

However, when the laptop user logs on to AOL, he will often (sometimes
as much as every 5-10 minutes throughout the day) get disconnected, then
reconnected immediately afterward. Also, from what he says, after the
first drop, the networked version of Quickbooks stops working. I am
assuming that this is because he has lost the connection to the
Quickbooks host on the local network. The other users seem to have no
problem with connection stability. Another user uses AOL and they are
all on AIM, and the connection doesn't drop for them.

However, when I brought the laptop to my house, it stayed connected to
my wireless network indefinetly, with no droppage problems whatsoever,
for over 5 hours.

What I have tried so far:

disabled the XP firewall
uninstalled and reinstalled all the networking devices on the laptop
replaced the router and wireless card (this was before the problems, as
they needed to upgrade to G anyway.)*
changed to the Wireless channel from 6, to 1, to 11, to 10.

*side note - they were having problems with their last Linksys B router,
where the laptop couldn't see the SSID anymore. Could see all the
neighbors, so I think it was a channel interference thing. Rather than
troubleshoot, we simply upgraded.

Anyway, any suggestions on what else I might try? They have a wireless
Panasonic phone system set up in their office. Could this be causing the
interference? I tend to think not, as things were running fine with the
wireless network for months before when they had the phone system. Could
there be something else in the building that is causing the drops that I
should look for? HELP!

Thanks,

Ryan

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 06:33:55 GMT, The Chairman <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>However, when the laptop user logs on to AOL, he will often (sometimes
>as much as every 5-10 minutes throughout the day) get disconnected, then
>reconnected immediately afterward. Also, from what he says, after the
>first drop, the networked version of Quickbooks stops working. I am
>assuming that this is because he has lost the connection to the
>Quickbooks host on the local network. The other users seem to have no
>problem with connection stability. Another user uses AOL and they are
>all on AIM, and the connection doesn't drop for them.

The Panasonic phone system could be causing the problem. Most are
frequency hoppers which clobber ALL channels. Sounds more like a
classic case of 2.4GHz microwave oven interference. Tracking down the
culprit is going to be rough without a spectrum analyzer and more
frequent events for testing. If this office has a glass wall with a
view of the outside world, I would try moving the access point away
from the view.

Other possible sources of 2.4GHz interference are:
Microwave oven.
2.4Ghz video or security camera link (X10).
Bluetooth devices (mouse, phone, PDA, headset, cell phone, etc)
Portable wireless TV camera used at sports events.
Frequency hopping cordless phones (Panasonic Gigarange)
802.11b/g wireless keyboards, PDA's, and cell phones.
2.4GHz game pads and controllers.
RF Excited Lighting (Fusion Lighting).
2.4GHz baby monitors.
2.4GHz ham radio operation.
WISP (wireless internet service providers) which may be using
non-802.11 type of modulation (i.e. WiMax).

This might be worth viewing:
http://www.bvsystems.com/Products/WL...terference.htm


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831.336.2558 voice http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
# (E-Mail Removed)
# (E-Mail Removed) AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news(E-Mail Removed):

> This might be worth viewing:
> http://www.bvsystems.com/Products/WL...terference.htm

Thanks Jeff. Are there any PC programs that do some form of Spectrum
Analyzing? That YellowJacket looks awesome, but I can't justify buying
something like that for just this one situation.

I would imagine that a laptop would be able to do some form of this,
because of it's inherent properties it's always scanning the channels...?

Also, would you say that based on what I posted I can pretty much rule out
any other hardware or software issues? I would think there's nothing else
to try. What I am thinking is that maybe a neighbor just got something new,
and that is interfering with the network now.

Maybe I'll just run some CAT 5 to the guys desk! Seems like that would be
the easiest of all the solutions.

"The Chairman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:Xns9623B2C209Fmonsterearthlinknet@140.99.99.1 30...
> Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
> news(E-Mail Removed):
>
> > This might be worth viewing:
> >
http://www.bvsystems.com/Products/WL...terference.htm
>
> Thanks Jeff. Are there any PC programs that do some form of Spectrum
> Analyzing? That YellowJacket looks awesome, but I can't justify
buying
> something like that for just this one situation.

My cheap solution is to find you a Proxim RangeLan 2 7400 FHSS adapter
card. I found a new one on ebay for about 10.00. You can download the
utilities from Proxim. It has a site survey tool called snoop that
scans the
2.4ghz range. Works very well. I found that my garage door opener is
a source of continual interference in the channel 6 area with it.
Another
thing for dsl connections, I would set the router keep-alive setting
to 0 or 1
for optimal dsl connection performance. Default is 30 secs on a
wrt54g.
Not that it will help the wireless side but, dsl if left idle will
disconnect
and then reconnect based on the keep-alive setting. In other words the
wrt54g checks every 30 seconds to see if dsl is up and if not redial
it.





>
> I would imagine that a laptop would be able to do some form of this,
> because of it's inherent properties it's always scanning the
channels...?
>
> Also, would you say that based on what I posted I can pretty much
rule out
> any other hardware or software issues? I would think there's nothing
else
> to try. What I am thinking is that maybe a neighbor just got
something new,
> and that is interfering with the network now.
>
> Maybe I'll just run some CAT 5 to the guys desk! Seems like that
would be
> the easiest of all the solutions.

The Chairman wrote:
> Ok, here is the situation: One wireless laptop (XP Home SP2), the rest
> of the workstations are wired. Brand new Linksys WRT54G router and
> Linksys Wireless G Network card. Very very simple set up that I have
> done dozens of times before. The signal at the wireless user's desk is
> excellent.
>
> However, when the laptop user logs on to AOL, he will often (sometimes
> as much as every 5-10 minutes throughout the day) get disconnected, then
> reconnected immediately afterward. Also, from what he says, after the
> first drop, the networked version of Quickbooks stops working. I am
> assuming that this is because he has lost the connection to the
> Quickbooks host on the local network. The other users seem to have no
> problem with connection stability. Another user uses AOL and they are
> all on AIM, and the connection doesn't drop for them.
>
> However, when I brought the laptop to my house, it stayed connected to
> my wireless network indefinetly, with no droppage problems whatsoever,
> for over 5 hours.
>
> What I have tried so far:
>
> disabled the XP firewall
> uninstalled and reinstalled all the networking devices on the laptop
> replaced the router and wireless card (this was before the problems, as
> they needed to upgrade to G anyway.)*
> changed to the Wireless channel from 6, to 1, to 11, to 10.
>
> *side note - they were having problems with their last Linksys B router,
> where the laptop couldn't see the SSID anymore. Could see all the
> neighbors, so I think it was a channel interference thing. Rather than
> troubleshoot, we simply upgraded.
>
> Anyway, any suggestions on what else I might try? They have a wireless
> Panasonic phone system set up in their office. Could this be causing the
> interference? I tend to think not, as things were running fine with the
> wireless network for months before when they had the phone system. Could
> there be something else in the building that is causing the drops that I
> should look for? HELP!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan

This sounds a lot like the ongoing problems I have with my Centrino
laptop at home. Based on my experiences (which may or may not be
similar to what you're seeing), I'd say try these 2 things as a test:
1) Move the problem laptop further away from the AP, if it's closer
than about 20ft.
2) Temporarily force the WRT54G down to 802.11b only, and see if the
connection improves.

Hopefully these will give you some clues.

good luck,
Jonathan

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:00:34 GMT, The Chairman <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news(E-Mail Removed) :
>
>> This might be worth viewing:
>> http://www.bvsystems.com/Products/WL...terference.htm
>
>Thanks Jeff. Are there any PC programs that do some form of Spectrum
>Analyzing?

Yes, sorta with some limitations. Proxim made an frequency hopper
that can be used as a crude spectrum analyzer. RangeLan2 7400 card.
There is spectrum analyzer software called "snoop" available. You'll
also need to reflash the card with tweaked firmware so that it doesn't
transmit.
| http://www.dailywireless.org/modules...rticle&sid=581
The cards can be found on eBay for about $20/ea.

I also have the same FHSS card in a Symbol PPT4340 oversized PDA.
| http://www.symbol.com/products/mobil..._ppt_4300.html
which can be found for about $150. There's a one for $549 on eBay
which methinks is excessive.

The catch is that it's not terribly sensitive. I had to hack mine to
add an external SMA antenna connector. With the supplied rubber
ducky, it could barely see my access point at about 30ft.
Fortunately, my leaky microwave oven was VERY obvious. However, I
couldn't see the neighbors oven at about 100ft. If you're going to
use this setup, you'll need an RF pre-amplifier and a big antenna.

There's also this program:
| http://www.allaboutjake.com/network/...lanexpert.html
which has an even cruder spectrum analyzer feature. I never could get
it to work.

I also have a few ancient Teletronics 802.11 cards which comes with
marginal site survey software.

>That YellowJacket looks awesome, but I can't justify buying
>something like that for just this one situation.

One of the local WISP (wireless ISP) tech types may have one or
possibly a spectrum analyzer. I usually borrow long before I buy.

>I would imagine that a laptop would be able to do some form of this,
>because of it's inherent properties it's always scanning the channels...?

>Also, would you say that based on what I posted I can pretty much rule out
>any other hardware or software issues? I would think there's nothing else
>to try. What I am thinking is that maybe a neighbor just got something new,
>and that is interfering with the network now.

Your 5 hour home test fairly well ruled out any wireless hardware
issues. It might be something dumb like the power save on the laptop
or seperate power saving features on the wireless card. It's worth a
double check, or possibly disabling all power save features to be
sure. They're in the wlan card driver, Windoze desktop, and BIOS
setup. Check them all.

My guess is still some sort of interference. However, we can rule out
most of the list I posted as it's unlikely that these would operate
only for a few minutes perhaps once or twice per day. Only the
microwave oven fits the use pattern.

It's also possible the office broadband connection has an idle timeout
or that the ISP is juggling DHCP IP addresses just to irritate anyone
running servers. This is rather common with PPPoE and would be fatal
to secured connections such as QuickBooks Online while barely
noticeable for typical web browsing. I know you said that nobody else
is affected, but it may be a bad timing or bad luck issue.

Add to the list:
City installed metropolitan LAN.
Coffee shop hot spot.

>Maybe I'll just run some CAT 5 to the guys desk! Seems like that would be
>the easiest of all the solutions.

Yep. Wireless is nice, but wired is much more reliable.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:19:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Yes, sorta with some limitations. Proxim made an frequency hopper
>that can be used as a crude spectrum analyzer. RangeLan2 7400 card.
>There is spectrum analyzer software called "snoop" available. You'll
>also need to reflash the card with tweaked firmware so that it doesn't
>transmit.
>| http://www.dailywireless.org/modules...rticle&sid=581
>The cards can be found on eBay for about $20/ea.

I forgot to mention that the software doesn't run on XP and some WinCE
mutations. Also, I've been told that hacked firmware flash is
un-necessary if you simply place the card in the "master" mode.

Some more links on the card. The photos should give you some clue
what to expect.

http://www.e3.com.au/modules.php?op=...article&sid=22
http://quantum-sci.com/library/spectrum-analyzer.php
http://cognetixgroup.com/products/proxim.htm

--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Where on the proxim site is the app called snoop, it sounds exactly what I
need for a problem I am trying to solve.

Regards Paul.

"Airhead" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:4242af6e$0$30516$(E-Mail Removed) m...
>
> "The Chairman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns9623B2C209Fmonsterearthlinknet@140.99.99.1 30...
>> Jeff Liebermann <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> news(E-Mail Removed):
>>
>> > This might be worth viewing:
>> >
> http://www.bvsystems.com/Products/WL...terference.htm
>>
>> Thanks Jeff. Are there any PC programs that do some form of Spectrum
>> Analyzing? That YellowJacket looks awesome, but I can't justify
> buying
>> something like that for just this one situation.
>
> My cheap solution is to find you a Proxim RangeLan 2 7400 FHSS adapter
> card. I found a new one on ebay for about 10.00. You can download the
> utilities from Proxim. It has a site survey tool called snoop that
> scans the
> 2.4ghz range. Works very well. I found that my garage door opener is
> a source of continual interference in the channel 6 area with it.
> Another
> thing for dsl connections, I would set the router keep-alive setting
> to 0 or 1
> for optimal dsl connection performance. Default is 30 secs on a
> wrt54g.
> Not that it will help the wireless side but, dsl if left idle will
> disconnect
> and then reconnect based on the keep-alive setting. In other words the
> wrt54g checks every 30 seconds to see if dsl is up and if not redial
> it.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I would imagine that a laptop would be able to do some form of this,
>> because of it's inherent properties it's always scanning the
> channels...?
>>
>> Also, would you say that based on what I posted I can pretty much
> rule out
>> any other hardware or software issues? I would think there's nothing
> else
>> to try. What I am thinking is that maybe a neighbor just got
> something new,
>> and that is interfering with the network now.
>>
>> Maybe I'll just run some CAT 5 to the guys desk! Seems like that
> would be
>> the easiest of all the solutions.
>

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 21:25:17 +0100, "Paul@Home" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Where on the proxim site is the app called snoop, it sounds exactly what I
>need for a problem I am trying to solve.

"Snoop" is not a stand alone program that can be downloaded and run
independently. It's a feature built into the Windoze drivers for the
Proxim RangeLan2 7400 cards. It works with everything from W95oemSP2
to W2K, but does NOT work with XP.

The program is rather clunky. There are 3 scan speeds. Slow takes
about 60 seconds to scan from 2400 to 2483.5 MHz. Fast takes about 10
seconds. If there's no traffic, it can barely see the beacons from my
access point. If I'm downloading furiously (or ping flooding with
large packets), I can see what looks like DSSS spectra on the slowest
speed. Medium has some holes in it, and fast looks like a mess.

My leaky microwave oven is very obvious. IIt also shows a pronounced
drift from the upper end to the lower end of the band as it warms up.
The oben's spectra is only about 5 MHz wide. I can see my signal
generator quite nicely. I wish it had a peak hold that would hold
bars between multiple sweeps. Anyway, it's better than nothing.

Given some spare time, I can post AVI video clips of the various
screens and emissions using my digital camera.


--
Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558

Thanks Jeff.

I think I have sourced a card from Ebay, wonder why it does not work on XP,
when it works on 2000? Not that it matters that much, I have an old portable
knocking about that would run Win2k.

Cheers..

Paul.

"Jeff Liebermann" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 21:25:17 +0100, "Paul@Home" <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>>Where on the proxim site is the app called snoop, it sounds exactly what I
>>need for a problem I am trying to solve.
>
> "Snoop" is not a stand alone program that can be downloaded and run
> independently. It's a feature built into the Windoze drivers for the
> Proxim RangeLan2 7400 cards. It works with everything from W95oemSP2
> to W2K, but does NOT work with XP.
>
> The program is rather clunky. There are 3 scan speeds. Slow takes
> about 60 seconds to scan from 2400 to 2483.5 MHz. Fast takes about 10
> seconds. If there's no traffic, it can barely see the beacons from my
> access point. If I'm downloading furiously (or ping flooding with
> large packets), I can see what looks like DSSS spectra on the slowest
> speed. Medium has some holes in it, and fast looks like a mess.
>
> My leaky microwave oven is very obvious. IIt also shows a pronounced
> drift from the upper end to the lower end of the band as it warms up.
> The oben's spectra is only about 5 MHz wide. I can see my signal
> generator quite nicely. I wish it had a peak hold that would hold
> bars between multiple sweeps. Anyway, it's better than nothing.
>
> Given some spare time, I can post AVI video clips of the various
> screens and emissions using my digital camera.
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann (E-Mail Removed)
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 AE6KS 831-336-2558